The Nazi discussion.

[2dimes]

Sure there were many people forced to participate but I was refering to the ones that were not.

[Pedronicus]

They made some quality rockets those Nazis. So good in fact that the Americans spirited away quite a few clever guys in Operation Paperclip and the Yanks beats the Ruskies to the moon.

[multilis]

Sure there were many people forced to participate but I was refering to the ones that were not.

"Forced" is a less than accurate word imo. Those who took part in actual mass murder were usually not forced, those that didn't likely didn't know.

IMO given a nasty economic collapse, and some terrorism fears that dwarf 9-11, the americans or other cultures are similar enough to embrace a similar sort of thing as Nazi. Experiments have shown that given authority claiming responsibility and direction, 2/3 of people in almost any culture will act in way that could be murder without any "force".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[natty dread]

Yanks beats the Ruskies to the moon.

In Soviet Russia, moon lands to you!!

[Titanic]

They made some quality rockets those Nazis. So good in fact that the Americans spirited away quite a few clever guys in Operation Paperclip and the Yanks beats the Ruskies to the moon.

but lost in almost every other area of teh space race... Those German scientists were genius's though..

[JoshyBoy]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

Oh and btw I would say towards the end of the war, the majority of the German army were just following orders, would of rather gone home, and I wouldn't technically class all the germans as nazis.

[Woodruff]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

His biggest mistake was trying to run the war, instead of allowing his generals to do so.

[2dimes]

It wasn't so much he was an idiot as he was way over confident. Obviously the generals shared that or they would have either abandoned him or had a mutiny.

I wouldn't technically class all the germans as nazis.

What a relief, I wouldn't want to be technically classed as a nazi, I really oppose what they did. It makes me happy to see pictures of them dead, especialy if it was suicide.

[JoshyBoy]

He shouldn't of attacked Russia. He almost had Britain beat, and he turned his attention away from Britain before the job was finished.

[JoshyBoy]

Why is it wrong when a nazi shoots a Jew, but acceptable when an eagle devours a live sloth? You are so quick to decry others for their crimes, yet you live in a 1st world country happily consuming resources at the expense of them. Spare me from any more of your hypocritical morals, they are so depressingly moronic and self serving I cannot bare to hear you lament them any further.

Epic.

[NOOBTRAIN]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

His biggest mistake was trying to run the war, instead of allowing his generals to do so.

If he hadn't interfered than he would've never conquered France. Your blanket statement betrays your lack of knowledge and critical thinking.

More accurately, his biggest mistakes were diverting too much effort to the Caucasus and not alloying his generals to 'strategically lose ground' (I don't know how to put that... (General Mannfred had enough power to ignore HItler's orders and while retreating from Soviet forces he was able to perform many ripostes which devestated his pursuers - those kinds of maneuvers would've drastically increased the Germans' fighting potential)).

[naxus]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

His biggest mistake was trying to run the war, instead of allowing his generals to do so.

If he hadn't interfered than he would've never conquered France. Your blanket statement betrays your lack of knowledge and critical thinking.

More accurately, his biggest mistakes were diverting too much effort to the Caucasus and not alloying his generals to 'strategically lose ground' (I don't know how to put that... (General Mannfred had enough power to ignore HItler's orders and while retreating from Soviet forces he was able to perform many ripostes which devestated his pursuers - those kinds of maneuvers would've drastically increased the Germans' fighting potential)).

Then again if he hadn't interfered then he wouldve won the war against russia as one of his generals had the manpower to take some city(cant remember right now damn it) but Hitler had him wait a few months until the new experimental equipment arrived so he could test it.The other reason he ordered the general to wait was so the attack would be on a day that was "special" to hitler.

So hitler intentionally delayed a almost 100% sure victory just so he could have the celebration his day of choice.Those months allowed the Russians to build massive defensive works which slaughtered the german advance.Causing Thousands of unneeded casualties.

[2dimes]

Missing one city cost them the war against Russia?

[naxus]

Missing one city cost them the war against Russia?

I only made one example.he did that many times interfering with his generals plans.While they still may not have won the war if he hadnt interfered, thier chances wouldve been WAY better

[Titanic]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

His biggest mistake was trying to run the war, instead of allowing his generals to do so.

Totally agree. He was not a military man, just good at speeches and PR. Made several major mistakes, militarily and economically. A smarter leader could have made the war last much longer or possibly won it or force the allies to a peace treaty. Maybe its better that he was that bad....

It wasn't so much he was an idiot as he was way over confident. Obviously the generals shared that or they would have either abandoned him or had a mutiny.

The generals didn't dare go against him, he was the idol of the Nazis and the top dog. Any that did would probably have been transferred or removed from the army.

He shouldn't of attacked Russia. He almost had Britain beat, and he turned his attention away from Britain before the job was finished.

Agree with the first part. Disagree with the second. The RAF had won the Battle of Britain (albeit with Hitlers mistakes) so Operation Sealion and his invasion had to be called of.

Missing one city cost them the war against Russia?

If it was Stalingrad/Moscow yes, but I think he was talking about something else....

[john9blue]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

[JoshyBoy]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

I think that's a point I was trying to put across.

[neanderpaul14]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

The Milgram experiments prove nothing, I'd give strangers mild electric shocks just for the hell of it, I've done it to coworkers several times in the past just for fun, and for the "shock value".

[Phatscotty]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

The Milgram experiments prove nothing, I'd give strangers mild electric shocks just for the hell of it, I've done it to coworkers several times in the past just for fun, and for the "shock value".

yes, after all, it was "do what the gov't says, or else....." wasn't it? they were just following the "law of the land", as misguided as it was. Which is why people must learn from the effects of hyper-inflation, and we must stop the insanity of "deficits don't matter"

[Titanic]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

The Milgram experiments prove nothing, I'd give strangers mild electric shocks just for the hell of it, I've done it to coworkers several times in the past just for fun, and for the "shock value".

The experiment does have limits. One of the main reasons the Nazis started using gas chambers to kill the Jews instead of squads grouping them and gunning them was that the troops in these squads started feeling duhumanised and had low morale. Just because others were doing it and their leaders told them too, they still instinctively knew that what they were doing was horrible.

[neanderpaul14]

By "Nazis" do you mean the ranking officials or the average soldier? Most of the soldiers weren't "scum", just regular people who were victims of coercion, the Milgram experiments prove that.

The Milgram experiments prove nothing, I'd give strangers mild electric shocks just for the hell of it, I've done it to coworkers several times in the past just for fun, and for the "shock value".

The experiment does have limits. One of the main reasons the Nazis started using gas chambers to kill the Jews instead of squads grouping them and gunning them was that the troops in these squads started feeling duhumanised and had low morale. Just because others were doing it and their leaders told them too, they still instinctively knew that what they were doing was horrible.

No, no, no you misunderstand me, one time I took the opposite end of a wire we were working with and attached it to a nearby electric fence so that when my buddy went to do the splicing he would get nailed by it. Then I told all our coworkers about it so we could all enjoy it. It was hysterical.

[Pedronicus]

The Nazis did somethings morally wrong but...

they invented the flying wing (the horton brothers from memory) and it turned out it had a low radar signature, low drag coefficient and if developed would of been able to reach new york.
they were also very close to the atom bomb.
the combined effects of the above two weapons would of been slightly more newsworthy than 9/11 and the world wouldn't of been the same.

[Woodruff]

Hitler was an idiot. He made several mistakes during the war.

His biggest mistake was trying to run the war, instead of allowing his generals to do so.

If he hadn't interfered than he would've never conquered France. Your blanket statement betrays your lack of knowledge and critical thinking.

Ah, Telletubster returns. How pathetic. Get a life, son.

[SultanOfSurreal]

They were pretty much the same as everyone else seems to be the general consensus these days.

I disagree and think they were scum. That was the origional title and why the thread started with this.

it's easy to tell yourself that every single german living in germany between 1930 and 1945 happened to be magical subhuman supervillains. but at some point you're going to have to accept that the nazis were people just like us, and that no other nation is impervious to committing such atrocities. they were regular people who were willing to do terrible things because their leaders told them it was for the greater good. it's happened plenty of times before. it still happens today.

singling out the nazis because their crimes were the most visible and conducted in the most systematic way on arguably the largest scale, and concluding they and they alone were capable of this evil, is the exact opposite lesson we should take from the holocaust.

[2dimes]

it's easy to tell yourself that every single german living in germany between 1930 and 1945 happened to be magical subhuman supervillains.

Well... I supose you could, but that makes you one of them. You're just another simple minded racist who can't see that the nazis were scum, if you lump all the Germans in with the nazis, just because most of the actual nazis were German and Austrian. So yeah I have no idea why anyone would.