Mexican Violence/Liberal Silence

[Juan_Bottom]

Why would they have to learn English? It's a free country ain't it?

[thegreekdog]

Why would they have to learn English? It's a free country ain't it?

They don't have to learn English. But then they probably won't get into college or get a job where English-speaking is a prerequisite.

[Phatscotty]

.... Except for those who consider simply seeing a brown face here to be "a problem".

... And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. She just couldn't help herself.

...

sorry player, but progressive liberals are the only ones who think like that. as evidenced here in this forum, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...

[thegreekdog]

.... Except for those who consider simply seeing a brown face here to be "a problem".

... And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. She just couldn't help herself.

...

sorry player, but progressive liberals are the only ones who think like that. as evidenced here in this forum, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...

Yeah, except it's really the case here. If they spoke English already and were white and didn't do manual labor, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Ironically, as Player has mentioned on numerous occasions, the people that are anti-illegal immigration are the same people who hire illegal immigrants. Take a look at New Jersey's illegal immigrant "problem."

[Phatscotty]

If you take a look throughout history, you'll see the establishment population of the US railing against immigrants (legal and illegal). That's where words like "wop" and "dago" and "mick" come from. The Anglo-Americans hated the Irish in the 19th century. The Anglo-Americans and the Irish hated the Chinese in the 19th century. The Anglo-Americans and the Irish hated the Italians, Greeks, and Eastern Europeans in the early 20th century. And now the Anglo-Americans, Irish, Italians, Greeks, and Eastern Europeans hate the Mexicans.

The difference here is that the rest of those people were assimilated, learned the language, and became productive members of society. That's what we need to do here. Having Arizona police go around questioning brown people isn't going to have any positive consequences. This is the most politically unsavvy move I've ever seen (as an aside) by the Republican Party. Ever. Mexicans are about as Christian conservative as you can get.

that is not what is going to happen greek. If anything, the police are assuming the responsibility of NOT letting an illegal back out onto the streets.

It won't be more than a 1 minute of detainment...

Show you ID, boom, done, solved, end of story. If you have not read the bill and seen the different forms of ID the state will accept as a validation of citizenship, I suggest you do so as I created a thread just for it. Mexicans must do as all Americans already do, show your ID when you get pulled over.

it really is that simple, no matter how complicated the democrats would like to make it

[Phatscotty]

Why would they have to learn English? It's a free country ain't it?

if you obey the law....yes

I'm not sure if you are aware, but if you break a law, you may wind up in jail, which is a very unfree place...

[Phatscotty]

.... Except for those who consider simply seeing a brown face here to be "a problem".

... And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. She just couldn't help herself.

...

sorry player, but progressive liberals are the only ones who think like that. as evidenced here in this forum, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...

Yeah, except it's really the case here. If they spoke English already and were white and didn't do manual labor, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Ironically, as Player has mentioned on numerous occasions, the people that are anti-illegal immigration are the same people who hire illegal immigrants. Take a look at New Jersey's illegal immigrant "problem."

Dude I am knee deep in illegal immigrants at least 10 hours a day. I have not seen about NJ but I am interested to now.

The people who are anti-immigration, IMO, are the ones that realize that people who exploit illegals AND the illegals themselves, are lowering everyones wages. I am not saying that is the only reason, but I challenge anyone to make an opposing case.

All I am going on is what everyone knows. Wages in this country have been dropping, overall, for a decade; and illegal worker population has been skyrocketing every year for the last decade.

[thegreekdog]

If you take a look throughout history, you'll see the establishment population of the US railing against immigrants (legal and illegal). That's where words like "wop" and "dago" and "mick" come from. The Anglo-Americans hated the Irish in the 19th century. The Anglo-Americans and the Irish hated the Chinese in the 19th century. The Anglo-Americans and the Irish hated the Italians, Greeks, and Eastern Europeans in the early 20th century. And now the Anglo-Americans, Irish, Italians, Greeks, and Eastern Europeans hate the Mexicans.

The difference here is that the rest of those people were assimilated, learned the language, and became productive members of society. That's what we need to do here. Having Arizona police go around questioning brown people isn't going to have any positive consequences. This is the most politically unsavvy move I've ever seen (as an aside) by the Republican Party. Ever. Mexicans are about as Christian conservative as you can get.

that is not what is going to happen greek. If anything, the police are assuming the responsibility of NOT letting an illegal back out onto the streets.

It won't be more than a 1 minute of detainment...

Show you ID, boom, done, solved, end of story. If you have not read the bill and seen the different forms of ID the state will accept as a validation of citizenship, I suggest you do so as I created a thread just for it. Mexicans must do as all Americans already do, show your ID when you get pulled over.

it really is that simple, no matter how complicated the democrats would like to make it

I did read the bill (it's only a few pages). I understand Arizona's concerns. I understand also that the federal government should be trying to help Arizona by ENFORCING FEDERAL LAW rather than the PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE ENFORCING THE LAW going around saying the law is bad. Ridiculous politics and the president and everyone else should be ashamed.

However, I don't like it. I don't like anything that violates anyone's civil rights (or, if you would prefer, criminal or judicial rights). The cops don't have the right to stop me and ask for my identification because they think I might be Greek. That's not how it works here. It's a reactionary bill, similar to the Patriot Act. It could and probably will result in horrible civil rights violations and a general bad feeling in Arizona.

So, despite it being simple, no, I don't like it. People shouldn't have to show their identification at a police officer's whim.

[thegreekdog]

.... Except for those who consider simply seeing a brown face here to be "a problem".

... And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. She just couldn't help herself.

...

sorry player, but progressive liberals are the only ones who think like that. as evidenced here in this forum, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...

Yeah, except it's really the case here. If they spoke English already and were white and didn't do manual labor, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Ironically, as Player has mentioned on numerous occasions, the people that are anti-illegal immigration are the same people who hire illegal immigrants. Take a look at New Jersey's illegal immigrant "problem."

Dude I am knee deep in illegal immigrants at least 10 hours a day. I have not seen about NJ but I am interested to now.

The people who are anti-immigration, IMO, are the ones that realize that people who exploit illegals AND the illegals themselves, are lowering everyones wages. I am not saying that is the only reason, but I challenge anyone to make an opposing case.

All I am going on is what everyone knows. Wages in this country have been dropping, overall, for a decade; and illegal worker population has been skyrocketing every year for the last decade.

Illegal immigrants generally take the lowest wage jobs (like dishwasher or fry cook or landscaper). Further, LEGAL immigrants generally take the lowest wage jobs. So, I contest that your argument is invalid because the same argument can apply to legal immigrants.

[bradleybadly]

I'm going to be labeled traitor here, but Player is right. That's exactly what this is about. It's about the brown faces. Illegal immigrants from Mexico work (unlike some people who are citizens of this country). Therefore, I welcome them with open arms. I say let them all in. Reform the immigration laws. If you want to be here, you're not a criminal, we sign you up, give you a social security number, and you start paying taxes (and then getting a credit).

But that's not going to happen, because God forbid we get some more brown people in the US. You guys are flat out wrong on this one.

Now, should they be taught in Spanish in public school and have Spanish signs and get all sorts of amenities? No way. Italians, Germans, Greeks, etc. all had to learn the language, Mexicans can too. That's where I draw the line. But let the dudes in. Who cares? It doesn't affect you one bit.

I won't label you a traitor, but you're totally wrong on this. You use indirect racism as a premise for the rest of your post. Unless you can prove that the attempt to secure the borders is based on a hatred for people based on the color of their skin, the rest of your post falls apart.

[Phatscotty]

Who has Greekdog's password?

[thegreekdog]

Who has Greekdog's password?

HA. I don't tow the line on all issues dude. I have major problems with illegal immigration laws, from a civil rights perspective, from an economics perspective, and from a personal perspective. I also think we're better off as a country if we let people in who want to come in. These guys aren't living off the government, for the most part they aren't killing people, they work hard (I can't say the same for a whole lot of Americans); we need to get them to become taxpayers and contributing members of society in that fashion. And the Republicans need to change their tune on this right now, or they are going to lose the only group of people that can possibly help them win in future years. I don't understand why Republicans can't see this.

[PLAYER57832]

I'm going to be labeled traitor here, but Player is right. That's exactly what this is about. It's about the brown faces. Illegal immigrants from Mexico work (unlike some people who are citizens of this country). Therefore, I welcome them with open arms. I say let them all in. Reform the immigration laws. If you want to be here, you're not a criminal, we sign you up, give you a social security number, and you start paying taxes (and then getting a credit).

But that's not going to happen, because God forbid we get some more brown people in the US. You guys are flat out wrong on this one.

Now, should they be taught in Spanish in public school and have Spanish signs and get all sorts of amenities? No way. Italians, Germans, Greeks, etc. all had to learn the language, Mexicans can too. That's where I draw the line. But let the dudes in. Who cares? It doesn't affect you one bit.

I won't label you a traitor, but you're totally wrong on this. You use indirect racism as a premise for the rest of your post. Unless you can prove that the attempt to secure the borders is based on a hatred for people based on the color of their skin, the rest of your post falls apart.

No, because Phattscotty took my quote well out of context. My point is that 90% of what he and many others declare to be "the problem" really isn't. As greekdog said, legalizing these people, offering a LEGAL way for them to come here and work would solve the problems far more cheaply. (and I actually disagree with greekdog in part because I don't necessarily think "legal" needs to mean "automatic path to citizenship")

ALL of the arguments, every one of them has been used against every big wave of immigrants throughout history, with the exception of the language issue (which I won't address here). In the past, the groups have been let in legally, but in this case they were still pretty well let in. The "illegal" part is just a convenient ploy to make them even handier scapegoats than previous immigrants.

Do I think intentional racism is at the root of this? No, but it is xenophobia combined with misinformation and yes, some outright racism. That someone can justify their position doesn't mean its not an "ism". I can point to plenty of guys who assured me that limiting my ability to work in various jobs, etc was for "my protection"... the same ones who were quick to insist there was a "problem" when I was "somehow" able to outwork them. (called paying attention and not just trying to brawn through it all). I see the same types of accusations here from some males in the forum. (definitely not you or greekdog or many others, but .. a few).

Basically, it all comes down to fear. When people are afraid, they look around for other people to blame, too often. Whoever is new, whoever is different becomes a target. It is a pattern repeated throughout history.

[PLAYER57832]

And the Republicans need to change their tune on this right now, or they are going to lose the only group of people that can possibly help them win in future years. I don't understand why Republicans can't see this.

I have noted this irony myself.

However, I think you realize that Republicanism has never really been about those "family values". They have never been more than a "means to an end". That "end" has always been served well by having large groups of people who won't object to poor working conditions, pay and who will help them skirt taxes, just as an aside. (definitely not saying the Democrats are a lot different, but their tactics/rhetoric are a bit different).

[bradleybadly]

Do I think intentional racism is at the root of this? No, but it is xenophobia combined with misinformation and yes, some outright racism. That someone can justify their position doesn't mean its not an "ism". I can point to plenty of guys who assured me that limiting my ability to work in various jobs, etc was for "my protection"... the same ones who were quick to insist there was a "problem" when I was "somehow" able to outwork them. (called paying attention and not just trying to brawn through it all). I see the same types of accusations here from some males in the forum. (definitely not you or greekdog or many others, but .. a few).

Basically, it all comes down to fear. When people are afraid, they look around for other people to blame, too often. Whoever is new, whoever is different becomes a target. It is a pattern repeated throughout history.

You're just totally wrong about this, player. I also resent that you would lump myself and others as xenophobes. This isn't any different than when your side uses homophobe, sexist, or racist in order to win an argument. It's not working. When illegal immigrants come up to Arizona and murder people in their own homes it's time to change the current culture. Those who can't afford to pay off the "coyotes" to smuggle them in here, go ahead and illegally traffic drugs into Arizona as payment for being transported. I don't fear anyone because of the color of their skin. What I do want is for this country to be protected from illegals who are murdering Americans, and also from those who are using the lack of security on the southern border as an entry point to carry out a terrorist attack. And yes, player - there are jihadists who are going to Mexico, learning Spanish, and entering through that Mexican border.

http://beforeitsnews.com/news/39/449/Te ... order.html

To label this as an issue where people are just fearful of those who are different is a backhanded way of calling people racists. It's bullshit!

[Phatscotty]

Who has Greekdog's password?

HA. I don't tow the line on all issues dude. I have major problems with illegal immigration laws, from a civil rights perspective, from an economics perspective, and from a personal perspective. I also think we're better off as a country if we let people in who want to come in. These guys aren't living off the government, for the most part they aren't killing people, they work hard (I can't say the same for a whole lot of Americans); we need to get them to become taxpayers and contributing members of society in that fashion. And the Republicans need to change their tune on this right now, or they are going to lose the only group of people that can possibly help them win in future years. I don't understand why Republicans can't see this.

I will agree it is a massive issue. I will disagree that republicans "dont see this" They do, they are just playing politics with peoples lives.

I do not trust the federal gov't with any of it. I firmly believe in states right, but not in the obvious extremes. I also realize the civil war...blah blah blah Yeah I got all that with the diminshment of states rights. It is exactly the fact they are so diminished that I pretty much support any state that uses common sense and rolls up it's sleeves.

I do not believe the law is going to promote racial profiling. 77% of America agrees with Arizona Law now, up from 73%. just saying...America finally agrees on something

[thegreekdog]

I'm going to be labeled traitor here, but Player is right. That's exactly what this is about. It's about the brown faces. Illegal immigrants from Mexico work (unlike some people who are citizens of this country). Therefore, I welcome them with open arms. I say let them all in. Reform the immigration laws. If you want to be here, you're not a criminal, we sign you up, give you a social security number, and you start paying taxes (and then getting a credit).

But that's not going to happen, because God forbid we get some more brown people in the US. You guys are flat out wrong on this one.

Now, should they be taught in Spanish in public school and have Spanish signs and get all sorts of amenities? No way. Italians, Germans, Greeks, etc. all had to learn the language, Mexicans can too. That's where I draw the line. But let the dudes in. Who cares? It doesn't affect you one bit.

I won't label you a traitor, but you're totally wrong on this. You use indirect racism as a premise for the rest of your post. Unless you can prove that the attempt to secure the borders is based on a hatred for people based on the color of their skin, the rest of your post falls apart.

Sorry, I didn't see your post.

Here is my question for you - Why do you think the border between the US and Mexico needs to be more secure? In other words, why is this a more important border than say any of the coastline and/or the border with Canada? If you say all borders need to be secure, then fine, I don't think there are underlying racial (or class) reasonings going on.

However, and I'll say this again, the US establishment's concerns about illegal immigration right now, in 2010, are no different than the US establishment's concerns about immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries. And I find those concerns to be lacking. So I find current concerns to be lacking as well.

[PLAYER57832]

Do I think intentional racism is at the root of this? No, but it is xenophobia combined with misinformation and yes, some outright racism. That someone can justify their position doesn't mean its not an "ism". I can point to plenty of guys who assured me that limiting my ability to work in various jobs, etc was for "my protection"... the same ones who were quick to insist there was a "problem" when I was "somehow" able to outwork them. (called paying attention and not just trying to brawn through it all). I see the same types of accusations here from some males in the forum. (definitely not you or greekdog or many others, but .. a few).

Basically, it all comes down to fear. When people are afraid, they look around for other people to blame, too often. Whoever is new, whoever is different becomes a target. It is a pattern repeated throughout history.

You're just totally wrong about this, player. I also resent that you would lump myself and others as xenophobes.

I want to clarify that I definitely don't think you are an evil guy. Nor do I see you as someone about to go don a hood.. and believe me, I spent enough time in Mississippi to recognize the type. Still, it is hard NOT to be somewhat racist. In truth, I don't deny the claim myself.
That said, Greekdog's question is pertient.

[ This isn't any different than when your side uses homophobe, sexist, or racist in order to win an argument.

Now I believe you are confusing me with someone else. When have I ever used those labels as an argument in and of themselves? I might make an argument and then say that the evidence seems to point toward that conclusion, but even when those labels apply, they are tinged with complexity. Like I said above, I doubt there are many people on earth who are not somewhat xenophobic or racist. AND, there is even some justification for that at a very mild level.

HOWEVER, ... well, greekdog said it better.

When illegal immigrants come up to Arizona and murder people in their own homes it's time to change the current culture.

This is tied to drugs and crime, not illegal immigration, except that the intense pressure on people who just want to come here to work is creating a situation where people are desperate enough to go to the real criminals, feeling they have little choice. As I said earlier, this is created and intensified by the intense crackdowns of otherwise law-abiding people, not the reverse. I grew up among many, many, many formerly illegal immigrants in rural California. We NEVER, EVER had problems with the kind of violence you attribute to them. Why do you think Reagan pushed so heavily for amensty? Because, for the most part, these people benefit us!

Those who can't afford to pay off the "coyotes" to smuggle them in here, go ahead and illegally traffic drugs into Arizona as payment for being transported.

Thirty years ago cayotes were virtually unkown. THAT is the fact you conveniently dismiss. The workers on the farms near where I grew up would simply walk or drive across the border. I was shocked and amazed at how easy it was, even then. It is only in recent years, with these supposed crackdowns, that things began to get truly violent.

Now, I am not saying that all who came here were always peaceful.. not at all! Crime has always been a part of Mexico, just as it is here. What I am saying is that things you ask for have made the situation worse, not better!

I don't fear anyone because of the color of their skin. What I do want is for this country to be protected from illegals who are murdering Americans

But.. wait? since when is there such a huge crime wave in the US. You say this, but even the rhetoric is about jobs and money, NOT violance. Why? Because the violance is not a real issue. All that talk of Mexican violance? It is in Mexico, not so much here. To a point, it is spilling over down in Texas. However, that is a very new phenomena and has absolutely nothing to do with US border enforcement, except that the violance is pushing many prominant Mexicans to flee here.. and inadvertantly, sadly bringing some violence with them.

The other area of concern was always Columbia. Again, that is tied to drugs, not workers who want to come here to live.

and also from those who are using the lack of security on the southern border as an entry point to carry out a terrorist attack. And yes, player - there are jihadists who are going to Mexico, learning Spanish, and entering through that Mexican border.

Yes, but these new rules are not about getting jihadists, sorry.

http://beforeitsnews.com/news/39/449/Te ... order.html

To label this as an issue where people are just fearful of those who are different is a backhanded way of calling people racists. It's bullshit!

Well, sorry I hit a nerve, there. Maybe the reason it hurts is because you know there is a modicum of truth to it.

The fact is that none of your "real and true" arguments are actually real and true. You believe they are, yes, but I urge you to check out your "facts".

I mean, come on, when greekdog and I agree on such an issue, you can hardly call this "liberal idiocy!".

[bradleybadly]

Player, I'm going to have to go back and read some more. You said that Phatscotty took a quote of yours out of context, and then when you quoted me I think you broke off part of what I was saying as well. I need to take a look at who's quoting who, when, and where

Anyway, as far as you hitting a nerve, hopefully you don't think I'm calling you full of bullshit. I'm rather peeved though about people being called racists in a roundabout way without having to actually use the words "you're a racist". It seems like that was the talking point you were embracing. But I do need to go back and see what you and PhatScotty were arguing about more carefully. If you want, you can point out the specific sentence of yours that he misused to make it easier.

Oh, I have to address this though -

I mean, come on, when greekdog and I agree on such an issue, you can hardly call this "liberal idiocy!".

The fact that you and greekdog agree on this does not make it true. His reasoning is just as flawed as yours if he's basing it on race.

[bradleybadly]

Here is my question for you - Why do you think the border between the US and Mexico needs to be more secure? In other words, why is this a more important border than say any of the coastline and/or the border with Canada? If you say all borders need to be secure, then fine, I don't think there are underlying racial (or class) reasonings going on.

I'll try to address your question.

The reason that the border between the US and Mexico needs to be more secure is because it's the most fluid illegal crossing of illegal immigrants into our country. Yes, the Canadian border needs to be equally secure. But let's get real here - people entering the US through the Canadian border are not smuggling illegal drugs here at the rate it's going on through Mexico. Canadians aren't murdering Americans up in the north like illegal Mexican immigrants are. Seattle, Minneapolis, or Buffalo are not the kidnap capitals of the country - Phoenix is. Why wouldn't Arizona take action to protect themselves from illegal drug trafficking, murder, the taking over of personal property by illegals, and kidnapping? C'mon it's obvious what's going on. The rate of illegal Mexican immigration, and the violent crimes committed by those illegal Mexican immigrants far outpaces that of illegal Canadian immigrants.

However, and I'll say this again, the US establishment's concerns about illegal immigration right now, in 2010, are no different than the US establishment's concerns about immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries. And I find those concerns to be lacking. So I find current concerns to be lacking as well.

You don't think people were pissed off at illegal immigrants coming over here from Eastern Europe in the 19th & 20th centuries? Wow, I mean just, wow You don't think there was anger over the Irish coming over here?

Look, I'm not going to tell you that there is no hypocrisy at all when it comes to immigration. We asked for this problem when we looked the other way for many years just so we can get cheap labor. My big contention is that when people finally do become angered over being shot, murdered, stolen from, kidnapped, threatened, intimidated, or whatever crime that results from illegal immigration, it is stupid to label those people as racists or that this is all because the illegal immigrants "look different" than they do. It's about protecting their lives first, and being secure to maintain their property.

Argue the issue over crime and security - not some lame attempt to label people as racists.

[Nobunaga]

.... Except for those who consider simply seeing a brown face here to be "a problem".

... And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. She just couldn't help herself.

...

sorry player, but progressive liberals are the only ones who think like that. as evidenced here in this forum, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...

Yeah, except it's really the case here. If they spoke English already and were white and didn't do manual labor, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Ironically, as Player has mentioned on numerous occasions, the people that are anti-illegal immigration are the same people who hire illegal immigrants. Take a look at New Jersey's illegal immigrant "problem."

... You're no traitor, but joining the crowd that attributes positions against lawbreakers as racist by default is a surprise. It's a given for some, but not for the Libertarian.

... Every Indian I know is an asset, either to the companies where they work or the neighborhoods in which they live. They are quite brown, by the way (psssst, they are also legal).

...

[thegreekdog]

You're no traitor, but joining the crowd that attributes positions against lawbreakers as racist by default is a surprise. It's a given for some, but not for the Libertarian.

As I think I've said before (maybe in another thread), I'm all for enforcing the law (and the federal government should do that, or else Arizona should). My issue is not with enforcement of the law, my issue is with the law itself. So, if you want to argue about enforcement of the law, I'm all for it. However, I think all immigration should be legal (i.e. anyone who wants to come here can come here... just make our "quotas" infinity).

Every Indian I know is an asset, either to the companies where they work or the neighborhoods in which they live. They are quite brown, by the way (psssst, they are also legal).

Are they? I've heard of a few Indians who were not legal. There's also a whole lot less of them.

The reason that the border between the US and Mexico needs to be more secure is because it's the most fluid illegal crossing of illegal immigrants into our country. Yes, the Canadian border needs to be equally secure. But let's get real here - people entering the US through the Canadian border are not smuggling illegal drugs here at the rate it's going on through Mexico. Canadians aren't murdering Americans up in the north like illegal Mexican immigrants are. Seattle, Minneapolis, or Buffalo are not the kidnap capitals of the country - Phoenix is. Why wouldn't Arizona take action to protect themselves from illegal drug trafficking, murder, the taking over of personal property by illegals, and kidnapping? C'mon it's obvious what's going on. The rate of illegal Mexican immigration, and the violent crimes committed by those illegal Mexican immigrants far outpaces that of illegal Canadian immigrants.

So violent crimes is the problem, right? You want to solve the problem of violent crimes by keeping all people, some small percentage of whom actually commit a violent crime, out of the country? That seems a little bit of overkill for me. I could use some analogies here - for example, the legality and use of guns in violent crimes. What if legal immigrants commit violent crimes?

You don't think people were pissed off at illegal immigrants coming over here from Eastern Europe in the 19th & 20th centuries? Wow, I mean just, wow You don't think there was anger over the Irish coming over here?

I think we got wires crossed. I absolutely do think there was anger. I think it's in one of my previous posts. My point is that the establishment back then made the same arguments you and others are making now regarding Mexican illegal immigrants. I don't think they were valid then and I don't think the same concerns are valid now. History shows that immigrants assimilate. My personal experience shows immigrants assimilate (my grandfather was an illegal Greek immigrant, my father is a vehement supporter of the Arizona bill... I would say we've assimilated).

Argue the issue over crime and security - not some lame attempt to label people as racists.

Okay, I will. I argue that we should stop the crime and the criminal, not people who may or may not be committing a crime or be criminals. I think we can do that by making all immigration legal and stopping those people who may commit crimes from coming here, rather than everyone, regardless of criminal predeliction.

[deronimo]

I just found this on a website with California's Penal Code. If Los Angeles is going to boycott Arizona over their immigration law then they're going to have to boycott the rest of California. Perhaps they'll end up boycotting themselves.

834b. (a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully
cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization
Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is
suspected of being present in the United States in violation of
federal immigration laws.
(b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected
of being present in the United States in violation of federal
immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the
following:
(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen
of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent
resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time
or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of
immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not
be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and
place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding
documentation to indicate his or her legal status.
(2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien
who is present in the United States in violation of federal
immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal
justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or
leave the United States.
(3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United
States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal
status and provide any additional information that may be requested
by any other public entity.
(c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city,
county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with
jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent
or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly
prohibited.

[Juan_Bottom]

I just found this on a website with California's Penal Code. If Los Angeles is going to boycott Arizona over their immigration law then they're going to have to boycott the rest of California. Perhaps they'll end up boycotting themselves.

That looks incredibly out-of-context.
Isn't that all done by every-single police force in America whenever they arrest someone? In Arizona you can now be arrested for having brown skin and no ID.
Even if anti-Mexican/Latino laws are on the books in California, it wouldn't be the same if they won't enforce them.

[deronimo]

In Arizona you can now be arrested for having brown skin and no ID.

Can you please quote the part of the Arizona bill which specifically says this?