Conquer Club

It gets worse, apparently one of the women has ceased to cooperate with the authorities and her lawyer (and btw, who the heck is paying him? That guy is famous in Sweden and has been involved with high-profile cases in the past, getting his services is expensive. What's more, he represented the alleged victims pretty much as soon as the first accusations were raised).

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/run ... operating/

Phatscotty wrote:Were there any documents that made the USA look good? A single one? if anyone knows please bring to light

Might be a bit late but the documents that said that the USA resisted calls from Arab leaders (particularly Saudi Arabia) to attack Iran.

Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

Woodruff wrote:Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

Woodruff wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Symmetry wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.

True- and torture is now a term of debate.

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Back to the situation and how it relates to PFC Bradley Manning:
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/ ... ichs-attem

Why is there no national outrage over this?

And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.

True- and torture is now a term of debate.

He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Woodruff wrote: And still...nothing? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... /?from_rss

It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.

True- and torture is now a term of debate.

He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

I'm pretty sure that being held indefinitely without trial is not a reasonable punishment.

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.

Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.

True- and torture is now a term of debate.

He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

I'm pretty sure that being held indefinitely without trial is not a reasonable punishment.

You beat me to it there.

And BBS, he may not be beaten or waterboarded, but he is being held isolated, kept locked up for 23 hours per day, not allowed to exercise beyond spending the remaining hour/day walking around a room, he's not given any bedding and has lately had to sleep naked and present himself naked to the wardens in the morning. Last I heard he's also regularly "checked up on" at night to "make sure he's still alive".
Isolation, sleep deprivation, demeaning treatment, that doesn't sound anything like reasonable treatment for a suspect, even if he had been convicted it wouldn't be.

Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

Or...you know...do the right thing.

BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?

From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

Or...you know...do the right thing.

Would you say that he did the right thing?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

Or...you know...do the right thing.

Would you say that he did the right thing?

Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

Or...you know...do the right thing.

Would you say that he did the right thing?

Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.

Would you say that it's right for people to engage in treason if they're releasing state secrets?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.

Or...you know...do the right thing.

Would you say that he did the right thing?

Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.

Would you say that it's right for people to engage in treason if they're releasing state secrets?

I think it's entirely situational. If the state secrets entail the government doing illegal things, then I would say that it is treasonous NOT to release that information.

Sometimes, I think the Washington Post reporters would be sitting in prison somewhere if the Watergate scandal had broken in today's mindset.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?

From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.

He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.

Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?

From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.

He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.

Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.

Well, they wouldn't want him committing suicide, now would they?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.

As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.

Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?

From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.

He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.

Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.

Well, they wouldn't want him committing suicide, now would they?

I really shouldn't... Oh fuck it.

BBS, you're trolling. Now stfu.