UK Big Brother racism row

[lessel55]

I'm a white male, but it would just make sense to me that any culture would want to make itself stronger. i would never use that word, and would like to see us as humans advance, but if you're going to draw a disinction and either be "proud to be black" or "proud to be white" why would you let a word bother you? I would think that would be the easiest hurdle to overcome. everone should concentrate on improving themselves and those they love. just a thought...

[Bertros Bertros]

I guess the difference is Geordie refers to people of a specific region, and so in reality is no different from calling them a Scot or a Belgian. In my book "Nigger" isn't the same whatsoever.

Ok I am partly playing devils advocate here so don't take it too personally. If thats the case why not call someone Asian? I do appreciate that the historic origin of nigger is derogatory which makes it more sensitive. To be honest I think it would have dropped out of usage, at least in the UK, if it weren't being used so prolifically by MOBO artists to make a point. I just think we need to get over it and move onwards and being PC is holding us all back from that.

[lessel55]

As an older fella once said to me, "always respect your elders and apreciate their trials, but don't suffer their weaknes's" how cool would it be if our grandkids would be able to say "can you beleive back in the old days people were actually offended by words?" the more you make a big deal out of the whole deal, the farther away from that we are.

[Kernal_Kronic]

people in the western world worry far too much about racism, in asia it is far more accepted people are different and y do u take offense just coz some1 calls u a name?

i mean here there are different wages for indonesians and malaysians no matter wat there qualifications, im not saying this is right but its the way things are, racism is meaningless and stems from peoples own insecurities.

its a word, everyone should get over it.

Exactly, people put a negative connotation to the word. Why is it okay for 2 rappers to call each other niggers, but if i call a black person a nigger then it's offensive. If i have to go into the middle of some jungle in africa & find a tribe & call them all niggers, it's not going to mean shit to them. If you say " i'm going to smack your fanny" or "I'm going to suck on a fag". Now days those have different meanings all together compared to back in the day.

It all depends on how the word is used, if i call somebody a "dumb, fucking nigger" that's being racist, but if i go to a white friend and say: "What's up, my nigga?" how is that offensive?

I'm from south africa & you have to be careful with what you say, because everything & anything can get attributed to racism. We have racism between different cultures of black people.

People need to get over themselves & just try live together instead of finding every opportunity to show how "different" we all are...The more we push against racism, the more it appears.

[lessel55]

jimminychritmas, I just realized I'm in happysuperdrunkmode. why am I even posting on here? sorry for sounding like a 7 year old. we you guys figure out the worlds problems, let me know. you guys sound smart...

[Bertros Bertros]

I bet you any money she'll be doing this today (after the press advisors get to her) but it clearly won't be from the heart.

The prohesised apology has arrived... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6732873.stm

[heavycola]

This is god damn stupid. What is this taboo bullshit about rappers being able to say it to eachother as much as they want and to whites as much as they want but not vice versa?

If I call my mate an ugly cunt its a joke or even a greeting, in a jovial way...

If I call someone I don't know an ugly cunt in a club I'll get bottled.

I'm an ugly cunt and I resent your looks-ist stereotyping. Not all ugly cunts are violent degenerates. I know many ugly cunts and they are, to a person, friendly, open and loyal, if sometimes a bit smelly.


The PC argument -that it's all gone mentally challenged etc, that this was an overreaction - misses the point that someone else made earlier. Channel 4's boss was almost forced to resign over (for the benefit of non-brits) a nasty racism row in Celeb BB over the summer. Then recenlty they were found to have cobvered up the extent of the racism, and they got another bollocking. They (as far as I know) have had to apologise publically before each show this season. There is NO WAY they could let this slide, joke or not. No way. They would have been shut down.
Channel 4 are blameless here. The only person to blame is the girl so completely braindead that she failed to see this for herself.

[Norse]

Erm, You just made the 'half-assed insinuation just here. I was merely stating that I am deeply offended by the N word, and that I feel that the same treatment should have been dished out to the black girl by the casual use of the word.

I didn't say they'd advocate consistency in judgement, but I suppose I did imply that they're right-wing nut-bags who might make the most of an issue like this. Which is what I meant. Unless you'd differ, as the tone of your response suggests you would. In which case, you should come right out with it, instead of making half-arsed insinuations.

Erm, You just made the 'half-assed insinuation just here. I was merely stating that I am deeply offended by the N word, and that I feel that the same treatment should have been dished out to the black girl by the casual use of the word.

But, what I do take issue with, is your idea that only 'hard line right wingers' can possibly see the logic in this. Which suggests to me that you are one of the PC brigade.

In fact, Most Black people would probably agree with me here, since people with your attitude patronise them, seeing them as a 'special case' instead of just treating them as any one else.

[flashleg8]

Exactly, people put a negative connotation to the word. Why is it okay for 2 rappers to call each other niggers, but if i call a black person a nigger then it's offensive. If i have to go into the middle of some jungle in africa & find a tribe & call them all niggers, it's not going to mean shit to them. If you say " i'm going to smack your fanny" or "I'm going to suck on a fag". Now days those have different meanings all together compared to back in the day.

It all depends on how the word is used, if i call somebody a "dumb, fucking nigger" that's being racist, but if i go to a white friend and say: "What's up, my nigga?" how is that offensive?

I'm sorry I completely disagree. That word is so heavily associated with its slavery roots that, in my opinion, any use of it makes reference to it. While I accept Stoppers argument that there should be no different set of social rules for black to black conversations and white to black, I personally would find it unacceptable and uncomfortable to see the word being used by a white person due to the historical connotations of it. If black culture wishes to re-appropriate the word, in a similar way that some Pakistani youths use the P word to each other and some homosexuals call each other "queer", then that is a decision for them - that doesn't make it acceptable for someone out of that culture to use it.

I fail to understand how your apparently homophobic expression has changed meaning compaired to "back in the day". I would still find that kind of language completely unacceptable.


And as for Beutros Beutros' question about why Geordie is not considered offensive, I would reply again that it has everything to do with the historical use of the word. Some regional names do have historically derogatory connotations and should be classed as offensive words while others are simply regional names. For an example I could put forward the Scottish word "sassenach", which describes an English person (usually living in Scotland), while this has simple roots in the Gaelic word for Saxon, its past use has really been a derogatory expression for English people. While this term is often used in jest between friends - its use could certainly be described as offensive to a stranger, much like the modern use of the N word. Another example of regional discriminatory words would be "teuchter" a Scottish lowlands term for Highland people. This again has historical connotations of oppression and discrimination, but it can be used in a joking manner - but some people would take exception to the use of the word in certain situations.

Other examples used in my area would be "hun" for a protestant and "tim" for a catholic - these have roots in the sectarian nature of the West Coast of Scotland and Northern Ireland and some groups of friends could use these words as part of friendly banter (especially related to football) but the use of the word to a stranger or in a wider sense to describe a group of people is highly offensive.

A word is not just a sound - it represents an idea. We should be very careful how or language is used and who it is intended for, what is acceptable in some situations is clearly not in others.

[Norse]

I agree.

However, if 2 consenting black adults, in the privacy of their own home called each other the n word, that would be ok.

[Norse]

And, on the british regional names..the word 'Welsh' originated from the saxon term 'foreigner', whereas welsh people call wales 'cymru'

[Bertros Bertros]

You're very right flashleg the connatations associated with certain words are derogatory, no doubting that whatsoever. As Guiscard pointed out, calling someone a twat has a derogatory connatation too, but it isn't prejudice. Calling someone a "Ginger Git" as Vic Reeves used to weekly on television has a derogatory connatation but it isn't prejudice. Its racist in that it singles out a ginger person but is it really offensive?

I just feel its so hugely blown out of proportion. Is it really so offensive that you feel unable to write Paki in an online forum and have to resort to saying "P word"?

As a society we desperately need to grow up about this and realise the insignificance of words over actions, we prance around turning a blind eye to real racial, sexual and class prejudice all around us on a daily basis whilst uttering our holier than thou epithets on not using offensive terminology. Its just so hypocritical...

[flashleg8]

As a society [...] we prance around turning a blind eye to real racial, sexual and class prejudice all around us on a daily basis whilst uttering our holier than thou epithets on not using offensive terminology. Its just so hypocritical...

Well said. I completely agree that we need to address the root cause and the practical implications of prejudice, not just words. A very good point.

I just feel its so hugely blown out of proportion. Is it really so offensive that you feel unable to write Paki in an online forum and have to resort to saying "P word"?

Its not a word I feel comfortable using, even in a debate about racism, again due to the way the word has been used in the past to abuse people from Asian backgrounds. It goes far beyond a mere shortened version of the word Pakistan to come to mean a derogatory racial slur for all Asians (especially immigrants to the UK).

[Lazare Carnot]

One of the house mates (white) was evicted for using the N word from the UKs Big Brother today.

She said it apparently in a joking way (while dancing to an R 'n B song) to a black housemate.

Obviously after the previous Big Brother racism row in the celebrity version this has once again made the news.

Was it the right action? Can racism be tolerated in any shape - even a joking manor? What would have happened if a black house mate used the word - is there a difference?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6729673.stm

Or is it yet another attempt to boost ratings? Apparently Bill Oddie and co. are kicking Big Brother's ass in the viewing figures.

[Norse]

One of the house mates (white) was evicted for using the N word from the UKs Big Brother today.

She said it apparently in a joking way (while dancing to an R 'n B song) to a black housemate.

Obviously after the previous Big Brother racism row in the celebrity version this has once again made the news.

Was it the right action? Can racism be tolerated in any shape - even a joking manor? What would have happened if a black house mate used the word - is there a difference?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6729673.stm

Or is it yet another attempt to boost ratings? Apparently Bill Oddie and co. are kicking Big Brother's ass in the viewing figures.

QFT

I really do think that the Channel 4 producers were wetting themselves with excitement after this happened...BigBrother has always tried to be 'shocking' to boost ratings.......

Bah, I refuse to watch it. Load of gutter-brained morons.

[Jenos Ridan]

Unless you're an albino (which you can't be, 'cause you didn't say you had red eyes ), I don't classify you as "white" Just me being pedantic

Still, it is very true that I am white. if you called me such, I'm not gonna get all bend out of shape.

[Jenos Ridan]

And, on the british regional names..the word 'Welsh' originated from the saxon term for 'foreigner', whereas welsh people call wales 'cymru'

Despite the fact that the 'welsh' are the real inhabitants of britain. Sorry Scots, you're ancestors came from Ireland, making you Irish. Sorry all you non-celtic brits, you came either from Germany-Denmark or Normandy, France. You're all invaders, technically.

[Norse]

And, on the british regional names..the word 'Welsh' originated from the saxon term for 'foreigner', whereas welsh people call wales 'cymru'

Despite the fact that the 'welsh' are the real inhabitants of britain. Sorry Scots, you're ancestors came from Ireland, making you Irish. Sorry all you non-celtic brits, you came either from Germany-Denmark or Normandy, France. You're all invaders, technically.

I am english, but will speak up here for our jock 'friends'.

The original inhabitant of the UK were the celts and picts.

The picts inhabited scotland and northern englnad, the celts inhabited the rest of uk....at the same time, the basques were invading ireland.

The irish emmigated to scotland and liverpool eventuyally, but dont blame the irish for scottish actions...the scots (picts) have always been a small confronting annoyance.

lol, them fakkin northeners, i like the northern irish, and the welsh, just the jocks seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

[Jenos Ridan]

And, on the british regional names..the word 'Welsh' originated from the saxon term for 'foreigner', whereas welsh people call wales 'cymru'

Despite the fact that the 'welsh' are the real inhabitants of britain. Sorry Scots, you're ancestors came from Ireland, making you Irish. Sorry all you non-celtic brits, you came either from Germany-Denmark or Normandy, France. You're all invaders, technically.

I am english, but will speak up hjere for our jock 'friends'.

The original inhabitant of the UK were the celts and picts.

The picts inhabited scotland and northern englnad, the celts inhabited the rest of uk....at the same time, the basques were invading ireland.

The irish emmigated to scotland and liverpool eventuyally, but dont blame the irish for scottish actions...the scots (picts) have always been a small confronting annoyance.

lol, them fakkin northeners, i like the northern irish, and the welsh, just the jocks seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

Picts were Celts, the Irish invaders killed them all. Ironic, since they to are Celtic.

Basques invaded Eire? Ha, don't make me laugh.

Sorry, but those are the recorded facts.

[Norse]

And, on the british regional names..the word 'Welsh' originated from the saxon term for 'foreigner', whereas welsh people call wales 'cymru'

Despite the fact that the 'welsh' are the real inhabitants of britain. Sorry Scots, you're ancestors came from Ireland, making you Irish. Sorry all you non-celtic brits, you came either from Germany-Denmark or Normandy, France. You're all invaders, technically.

I am english, but will speak up here for our jock 'friends'.

The original inhabitant of the UK were the celts and picts.

The picts inhabited scotland and northern englnad, the celts inhabited the rest of uk....at the same time, the basques were invading ireland.

The irish emmigated to scotland and liverpool eventuyally, but dont blame the irish for scottish actions...the scots (picts) have always been a small confronting annoyance.

lol, them fakkin northeners, i like the northern irish, and the welsh, just the jocks seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

Picts were Celts, the Irish invaders killed them all. Ironic, since they to are Celtic.

Basques invaded Eire? Ha, don't make me laugh.

Sorry, but those are the recorded facts.

You might want to look them facts up, since the pictish rements live on.

What you are a yank? with no history? dont bastardize my jock neighbours, despite the chip on their shoulders, they have a history that stretches far beyond your small minds can comnprehend.

fuckin hell....heres a joke for ya....'how do you stop a decent regular conversation of a mature nature'.........? invite a yank

But, the basques had invaded irleand, and geneology proves this.

[debra79]

Still, it is very true that I am white. if you called me such, I'm not gonna get all bend out of shape.

I would much rather address you as Jenos Ridan, if it's all the same to you

[Machus]

Personally i think this PC stuff is getting a little out of hand.
So i voted no.

It's getting a lot out of hand. It's now a witch hunt getting close to the level of anti-communism hysteria in the fifties. On the other hand it only flows in one direction; had the words honky, cracker, etc, been used in any connotation at all it would have been ignored or smoothed over no matter who it offended. Not even supposed to be pissed about it.

[The1exile]

Or is it yet another attempt to boost ratings? Apparently Bill Oddie and co. are kicking Big Brother's ass in the viewing figures.

Oh good, my heinous plan is working

Seriously though often my TV is left one with springwatch and other crap but never BB.

Maybe more people should do that.

[Iliad]

BB sucks. End of story.

[Phobia]

BB sucks. End of story.