[CC7] Finals S&M (31) vs FALL (30) - S&M Wins - Final 4/5/18

[IcePack]

Round 2 is exchanged, invites for both sides are out now.
Should be interesting

[betiko]

Round 2 is exchanged, invites for both sides are out now.
Should be interesting

It will only be interesting if you guys stick back to the score
Looks like a comfy cruise for S&M. Are you guys trying hard enough?

[emilywink]

Not a comfy cruise for us at all. After a scan of current games I don't know that we will be ahead after round 1 is over. Hope we can hang onto the lead going into round 2!

[IcePack]

Round 2 is exchanged, invites for both sides are out now.
Should be interesting

It will only be interesting if you guys stick back to the score
Looks like a comfy cruise for S&M. Are you guys trying hard enough?

I think you might want to actually look at the games instead of the current score.
Doesn’t matter if it’s 0-15 in the start if we then go 15-0 to finish the round.

[rockfist]

Not a comfy cruise for us at all. After a scan of current games I don't know that we will be ahead after round 1 is over. Hope we can hang onto the lead going into round 2!

Emily is always cautious and humble, putting that through my translator, it feels about 17-14.

[IcePack]

All our away invites are out as of this morning

[davekettering]

All games are now accepted and the battle is on to the finish.

Best of luck to both sides.

Dave

[agentcom]

12-4 is about even in Goranz’ mind. Now I understand where he comes from with a lot of his other views...

Knowing Goranz, this made me lol

(but he was right)

[IcePack]

Draknorrrrrrr

[rockfist]

12-4 is about even in Goranz’ mind. Now I understand where he comes from with a lot of his other views...

Knowing Goranz, this made me lol

(but he was right)

Good take every ounce of energy they have.

[emilywink]

Draknorrrrrrr

I'll trade you Draknor for Arms Race! and Lunar war

[xroads]

19 wins in the bucket, 12 more to go

[josko.ri]

I am wondering how Clan community sees 1 Clan rule? If a player changes Clan does he need to not be 'active in any games for previous Clan' or 'in any active games for previous Clan'? (notice small wording difference between two cases)

Key difference is the case when his last game for previous Clan is still active but he is eliminated as a player while his teammates are still playing the game. Therefore, he is not anymore actively playing for his old Clan although his teammates from his last game for old Clan are still playing.

I am interested if this 1 Clan rule is clearly understood by the Clan community or there are various understandings of the rule.

Note: I don't write my opinion because I might be biased, I hope other biased players will also not reply. I am seeking for opinion from unbiased Clan players.

[Donelladan]

I think the one clan rule is mainly to avoid abuse, and there is no need for such a precise definition as you mentionned in your post above.
Some games can take weeks to finish, if a player already switched clan and has only a few active games that are close to be finished I think it should not matter.

[Lord Arioch]

I seem to remember (might do it wrong:)) that in CL u have to be part of a clan at the start of the tourney otherwise u arent allowed to play? that seem like a good rule to me.. tourney started all memebers eligble for player new/switching members NOT?

[IcePack]

I am wondering how Clan community sees 1 Clan rule? If a player changes Clan does he need to not be 'active in any games for previous Clan' or 'in any active games for previous Clan'? (notice small wording difference between two cases)

Key difference is the case when his last gakme for previous Clan is still active but he is eliminated as a player while his teammates are still playing the game. Therefore, he is not anymore actively playing for his old Clan although his teammates from his last game for old Clan are still playing.

I am interested if this 1 Clan rule is clearly understood by the Clan community or there are various understandings of the rule.

Note: I don't write my opinion because I might be biased, I hope other biased players will also not reply. I am seeking for opinion from unbiased Clan players.

The good thing about rules is we don’t need opinions or bias. This is a long standing well established rule. It also prevents things like bias or public opinion and debate from swaying what ends up being implimented s

One Clan rule

Clan members are only allowed to play competitive games for one clan at any given time. If you recruit someone from another clan you must make sure all their games for their old clan have finished before you put them in games, otherwise your games will become void.

Dear Clans

There have never been any known (or reported) violations of the 1 Competitive Clan Rules, and as such a penalty scale has never been drafted before, as it wasn't ever needed. However, it's become apparent in recent weeks that there still remains some uncertainty around the specifics & therefore some unwitting contraventions of the 1 Competitive Clan Rule have occurred.

It's been our stand-point for a while now, that it is unacceptable for Players to be competing in Games for 2 clans simultaneously. Therefore, a player can not start a clan game with his New Clan, until all competitive clan games with the Previous Clan have ended

We have reached the decision that this onus rests with the New Clan, to ensure that if they recruit a player from another clan, all previous clan games have ended before commencing new ones.

Thus, the penalty we have chosen is that all Games started with the New Clan are Void (if they commence before the games with the previous clan have ended), but will stand if the opposing clan wins the game, since they were simply innocent 3rd parties that entered the game in good faith and without being aware of the violation.

Games must complete, not simply eliminated. As davekettering discussed and confirmed with me on skype December 30th

[josko.ri]

I am wondering how Clan community sees 1 Clan rule? If a player changes Clan does he need to not be 'active in any games for previous Clan' or 'in any active games for previous Clan'? (notice small wording difference between two cases)

Key difference is the case when his last gakme for previous Clan is still active but he is eliminated as a player while his teammates are still playing the game. Therefore, he is not anymore actively playing for his old Clan although his teammates from his last game for old Clan are still playing.

I am interested if this 1 Clan rule is clearly understood by the Clan community or there are various understandings of the rule.

Note: I don't write my opinion because I might be biased, I hope other biased players will also not reply. I am seeking for opinion from unbiased Clan players.

The good thing about rules is we don’t need opinions or bias. This is a long standing well established rule. It also prevents things like bias or public opinion and debate from swaying what ends up being implimented s

One Clan rule

Clan members are only allowed to play competitive games for one clan at any given time. If you recruit someone from another clan you must make sure all their games for their old clan have finished before you put them in games, otherwise your games will become void.

Dear Clans

There have never been any known (or reported) violations of the 1 Competitive Clan Rules, and as such a penalty scale has never been drafted before, as it wasn't ever needed. However, it's become apparent in recent weeks that there still remains some uncertainty around the specifics & therefore some unwitting contraventions of the 1 Competitive Clan Rule have occurred.

It's been our stand-point for a while now, that it is unacceptable for Players to be competing in Games for 2 clans simultaneously. Therefore, a player can not start a clan game with his New Clan, until all competitive clan games with the Previous Clan have ended

We have reached the decision that this onus rests with the New Clan, to ensure that if they recruit a player from another clan, all previous clan games have ended before commencing new ones.

Thus, the penalty we have chosen is that all Games started with the New Clan are Void (if they commence before the games with the previous clan have ended), but will stand if the opposing clan wins the game, since they were simply innocent 3rd parties that entered the game in good faith and without being aware of the violation.

Games must complete, not simply eliminated. As davekettering discussed and confirmed with me on skype December 30th

I knew someone biased like IcePack will appear because he doesn't want to allow possibility to see that Clan Community is not informed about this rule. Donelladan is example of one who is not informed.

This 'rule' is visible to six players from CD team and two of these six interpreted the rule differently than IcePack. The rule is not visible to rest of CC. That is why the rule is VERY unclear and undetermined and the reason why I ask Clan people what do they think about the rule.

[josko.ri]

Also IcePack, you only gave quote of the 'rule' but without timestamp. Can you provide timestamp when the quote from Leehar was written? I am interested to see if the 'rule' was written before any issue occurred or later.

However, it's become apparent in recent weeks that there still remains some uncertainty around the specifics & therefore some unwitting contraventions of the 1 Competitive Clan Rule have occurred.

Leehar points out that some uncertainties about the rule appeared in recent weeks which tells me that the rule was written AFTER the issue occurred in our current war. Is that true?

[Donelladan]

I knew someone biased like IcePack will appear because he doesn't want to allow possibility to see that Clan Community is not informed about this rule. Donelladan is example of one who is not informed.

I am usually against any kind of punishment in most situation. People that read the CDF forum would know that I disagree with most kind of game forfeits. So I am biased towards tolerance and never replay a game, unless clear cheating or malicious intent can be proved.

But CD's in general strictly apply the rule as it is written, and except me, I rarely see people going against that strict application of the rules.

If this is a S&M / FALL issue, as it seems to be, I'll refrain from any further comment, I am not involved and I don't wish to be.

[josko.ri]

This is what Chariot of Fire told on my wall about the question (he gave me permission to quote him):

Of course he can play for his new clan if it is in a different tournament. There is no conflict at all. It would be ridiculous to apply "One Clan Rule" to every ongoing tournament because some tourneys can last for more than one year! I think so long as there no conflict of interest then there should be nothing to prevent a player representing his new clan in a tournament he hasn't yet participated in.

So, from Donelladan, Lord Arioch and Chariot of Fire who commented so far, nobody explained the rule on the same way as IcePack did. Does it mean that the rule is not so straightforward and clear? Or why else Clan Leaders are not aware of the rule?

[rockfist]

I’m not sure what this is in regards to. I’m pretty sure new clan members who were not in a clan can join and play. We (TOFU) wait for games to finish if someone is joining from another clan and have had them sit out if they are cup tied.

I don’t have time to figured out what’s going on here nor do I have a dog in this fight, so good luck resolving it to your mutual satisfaction.

[josko.ri]

I’m not sure what this is in regards to. I’m pretty sure new clan members who were not in a clan can join and play. We (TOFU) wait for games to finish if someone is joining from another clan and have had them sit out if they are cup tied.

I don’t have time to figured out what’s going on here nor do I have a dog in this fight, so good luck resolving it to your mutual satisfaction.

S&M has newcomer Swifte from TNC clan and as TNC did not play in CC7, Swifte is eligible to play for us after he finishes all his CL8 games that he has played for TNC.

Game 17901016 was last active game for Swifte in TNC. The game ended on 9 of January but Swifte was eliminated from the game on 5 of January. Deadline for joining games was 7 of January so we asked TO Keefie who is unbiased person (given that IcePack could be biased due to fact that his clan is playing) if it is enough for eligibility that Swifte is eliminated from all his ongoing games for TNC but last game is not yet over and Keefie approved it (it was question of hours or days when it will be over because only 1 TNC player was playing no spoils game versus 4 opponents as of 7 of January).

FALL raised complaint that Swifte was not eligible to play according to some rule which is undefined in my opinion and which is not visible in rules (only CDs can see that rule).

That is why I am asking Clan community does player who is eliminated from all games for previous Clan becomes eligible to play for new Clan, or all his games for previous Clan must be physically finished, not only that he needs to be eliminated?

Now, I guess my question raised above might have more sense: If a player changes Clan does he need to not be 'active in any games for previous Clan' or 'in any active games for previous Clan'?

[Donelladan]

This is what Chariot of Fire told on my wall about the question (he gave me permission to quote him):

Of course he can play for his new clan if it is in a different tournament. There is no conflict at all. It would be ridiculous to apply "One Clan Rule" to every ongoing tournament because some tourneys can last for more than one year! I think so long as there no conflict of interest then there should be nothing to prevent a player representing his new clan in a tournament he hasn't yet participated in.

So, from Donelladan, Lord Arioch and Chariot of Fire who commented so far, nobody explained the rule on the same way as IcePack did. Does it mean that the rule is not so straightforward and clear? Or why else Clan Leaders are not aware of the rule?

You are misleading us here. Cof is talking about the Cup tied rule, not about the one competitive clan rule. Quote the entire conversation and it will become obvious.

[josko.ri]

This is what Chariot of Fire told on my wall about the question (he gave me permission to quote him):

Of course he can play for his new clan if it is in a different tournament. There is no conflict at all. It would be ridiculous to apply "One Clan Rule" to every ongoing tournament because some tourneys can last for more than one year! I think so long as there no conflict of interest then there should be nothing to prevent a player representing his new clan in a tournament he hasn't yet participated in.

So, from Donelladan, Lord Arioch and Chariot of Fire who commented so far, nobody explained the rule on the same way as IcePack did. Does it mean that the rule is not so straightforward and clear? Or why else Clan Leaders are not aware of the rule?

You are misleading us here. Cof is talking about the Cup tied rule, not about the one competitive clan rule. Quote the entire conversation and it will become obvious.

I think CoF is referring to One competitive clan rule. His response is answer to this quote from myself:

issue is different. our player played for ex Clan in another competition CL8. He never played in CC7. But, he joined CC7 games for our Clan while his last CL8 game for ex Clan was ongoing however he as a player was eliminated in that game earlier. Question is does player eliminated from all games from ex Clan became eligible to play for new Clan or his gaes for old Clan must physically finish.

If you want to find references for our conversation, they are visible on my and CoF's walls.

[rockfist]

I’m not sure what this is in regards to. I’m pretty sure new clan members who were not in a clan can join and play. We (TOFU) wait for games to finish if someone is joining from another clan and have had them sit out if they are cup tied.

I don’t have time to figured out what’s going on here nor do I have a dog in this fight, so good luck resolving it to your mutual satisfaction.

S&M has newcomer Swifte from TNC clan and as TNC did not play in CC7, Swifte is eligible to play for us after he finishes all his CL8 games that he has played for TNC.

Game 17901016 was last active game for Swifte in TNC. The game ended on 9 of January but Swifte was eliminated from the game on 5 of January. Deadline for joining games was 7 of January so we asked TO Keefie who is unbiased person (given that IcePack could be biased due to fact that his clan is playing) if it is enough for eligibility that Swifte is eliminated from all his ongoing games for TNC but last game is not yet over and Keefie approved it (it was question of hours or days when it will be over because only 1 TNC player was playing no spoils game versus 4 opponents as of 7 of January).

FALL raised complaint that Swifte was not eligible to play according to some rule which is undefined in my opinion and which is not visible in rules (only CDs can see that rule).

That is why I am asking Clan community does player who is eliminated from all games for previous Clan becomes eligible to play for new Clan, or all his games for previous Clan must be physically finished, not only that he needs to be eliminated?

Now, I guess my question raised above might have more sense: If a player changes Clan does he need to not be 'active in any games for previous Clan' or 'in any active games for previous Clan'?

Well that explains it, thank you. But, I and we have no interest in this, so I will repeat, best of luck resolving this in a mutually satisfactory way and refrain from choosing sides.