ICE vs THE Disrupters!!!

[jusplay4fun]

That ICE agent must be some kind of pedophile the way Jusplay is trying so hard to defend him, I wonder if he'd try this hard if his wife had been shot in the face by a fed while driving.

This is sour grapes and a USELESS and uncredible answer. If you don't have the FACTS to support you, pound the TABLE. And this is an ad hominem attack since Mookie has NO answers and NO FACTS to support his viewpoint here.

FACT: My wife would NOT be stoooopid enough to try to DISRUPT and interfere with ANY police actions. Bogus argument.

I continue to POUNT the FACTS. Mookie and other Liberals here cannot refute the facts and ONLY see the World in this matter from a NARROW precipice; they are on the edge of a cliff, to continue that analogy. Keep pounding your Cliff, Mookie, and watch it CRUMBLE.

[mookiemcgee]

FACT: Clayton Bigsby over here wouldn't know a fact if it shot him in the face while he was trying to cover up for pedophiles

[Pack Rat]

Jusplay4fun is ridiculously loyal to Trump and his attempts to declare Martial Law to stop the midterm elections.

Oh...Justplay4fun will point out a miniscule issue on Trump, but will ignore the huge pedophile and sex trafficking being buried by yelling squirrel and look at those shiny objects.

Any poster who dares insult Trump is a liar and insurrectionist! Funny heh? Just look at his accusations against anyone who calls Trump a liar...you will be called a liar. Same goes with any accusations toward Trump. Justblatheronforfun is following the Trump hand book and calling and accusing others who called him of his crimes.

[ConfederateSS]

Did the so called disrupter shoot anyone in the face? I thought you believed people had a right to guns as long as they didn't go around shooting people in the face?

Was Ashli Babbitt a disrupter who deserved to be shot and killed?

------------NO....ASHLI was murdered.......THERE WAS NO BREAKING INTO THE CAPITAL.......THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OWN IT.......SHE HAD EVER RIGHT TO BE THERE..............PERIOD .........Sorry, all the Democrats,that cry...January 6th.....blah,blah,blah!!!!!!... ConfederateSS.out!The Blue and Silver Rebellion)....
------------The funny thing, the pipe bomber just picked a bad day, to drop off his bombs....If that stuff at the Capital never happened....His bombing attempt would of been successful.....Jan 6th....Saved those people at The RNC and DNC offices...In Washington D.C......

[jusplay4fun]

While I continue to pound the FACTS, the Leftists are LEFT to grasp for the straws of LIES, innuendo, rumors, allegations, and obfuscation. They continue their ad hominem attacks. Do you want MORE PROOF? Mookie is now reduced to trying to FLING around baseless worthless charges of someone being a pedophile. I think they mean Epstein. That did NOT work for the pee rat, but Mookie is so desperate for a respond that he now parrots pee rat. That is HOW low Mookie is sunk, into the sewer with the pee pack rats and others of their ilk. And I thought Mookie is a thoughtful and rational person. I musta thought WRONG.

What huge

huge pedophile and sex trafficking

I am ignoring? Epstein files? I have already REPEATED argued that point. I will not repeat ALL that; just read the Epstein files thread and read where pack rat keeps YELLING "Release the Epstein Files" and YET ignores the FACTS, the biggest of them are that the FACTS show NOTHING criminal or illegals was done by Trump in regards to Epstein. SIMPLE analysis: pack rat is a LIAR.

When did I use the word "insurrectionist"? pee rat is confused and demented, full of rage and fury and signifying NOTHING. Full of bluster and dung and smelling up the Forum with his stinky lies, like a dirty rat.

On a side note, I play with my 3 year old grandson and, once in a while, I will call him a "dirty rat." He promply DENIES that he is a dirty rat. pack rat has, NEVER, to my knowledge, deny that he is a rat, dirty, cheating, lying, or otherwise. My Conclusion: my 3 year old grandson is smarter than pack rat.

pack rat, again, to my knowledge, has never denied any of the FACTS I have pounded in this thread. Perhaps he did in the 1,009 posts of his that I ignored. Or perhaps he made one of many impotent attempts in some silly videos that almost NO ONE watches. I challenged him in the Epstein Files thread to offer PROOF or FACTS. Did he? OF COURSE pack rat did NOT because he cannot. pack rat = loser

The pedophile perpetrator protector puny pee rat tries to protect Bill Clinton, his hero, and Bill's enabler, Hillary. What strange bedfelllows THEY make. I have NO desire to get into that bed, in the sewer, below THAT HUGE DUNG HEAP.

What are SOME of the FACTS the Leftists like Mookie and pack rat FAILING TO DENY or even offering any refutation about?

The Leftist want to claim the moral highground; their hold there is tenuous, at best. They do not own the moral highground and THEY have yet to ADMIT ANY complicity of Renee Good.

The FACT that Renee Good was there to IMPEDE and interfere with the ICE operation and efforts is IGNORED by the Leftists.

The FACT that she was a member of ICE Watch to IMPEDE and interfere with the ICE operation and efforts is IGNORED by the Leftists.

The FACT that her partner urged her to get involved to IMPEDE and interfere with the ICE operation and efforts is IGNORED by the Leftists.

FACT: The ICE Operation was NOT there in Minneapolis to KILL ANYONE; they were there to enforce the LAW that Leftists in Sanctuary Cities IGNORE.

FACT: My wife would NOT be stoooopid enough to try to DISRUPT and interfere with ANY police OR ICE actions.

SHOW me where mookie, pack rat, or any of their allies HERE in this thread, have DENIED any of these FACTS.

Is there any wonder why I call them LIARS in this matter? And how many other LIES do they continue to spread? How many FALSE NARRATIVES do they try to SPIN? I doubt that this is the ONLY SUCH ISSUE where the engage in such tactics.

And while we discuss FALSE NARRATIVES, let's revisit one by pack rat, that he only TRIED ONCE. When I called him on it, he never tried that worthless impotent response since:

Has the actual fake Christian, pee pee rat, now trying to wrap himself in the Bible ever BEFORE shown or claimed to be a Christian?

MORE FACTS ignored by our resident LEFTISTS:

Do not be like Mayor Frey who jumps to conclusions before the FACTS are known and THEN doubles down on his INITIAL and incorrect assessment because the FACTS did not fit his FALSE Narrative. The driver, Renee Good, did strike the ICE Officer with her vehicle. The ICE Officer did sustain injuries.

What matters most is the few seconds when the driver, Renee Good, moves her vehicle FORWARD to Flee the scene and what happened very soon after. What also matters are ALL THE FACTS, and many who have expressed opinions do NOT have ALL or ENOUGH facts to draw a reasonable and valid conclusion. Do not jump to CONCLUSIONS, just because your conclusion is based on:

1) your biases;
2) your incomplete assessments; and
3) before you have enough FACTS.

Many relevant facts have come forward in the past several days. Many folks will not listen because THESE NEW FACTS contradict their initial assessment and conclusion.

Now that Mookie has used some of the SAME tactics, such as the same LIES, that pack rat uses, do not be shocked when Mookie resorts to Large font in italics. NOW pack rat resorts to YELLING LIES. How is that working, pack rat? NOT WELL, since you are so BAD at this, that even RiskLlama noticed and called you on that.

Let us revisit other matters here from the first page of this thread). NOW Duk did ADMIT to one FACT, but then tried to spin into a FALSE narrative, that I prompty refutted:

Duk is WRONG as:
1) She clearly did not get out of the car, when (apparently) ordered to do so by another ICE officer
2) was trying to leave the Scene, FLEE, AFTER SPENDING MOST of the DAY harrassing the ICE officers and trying to be an "ICE WATCH" Activist; (YES, she was trying to get away, now an ILLEGAL acts as she was ordered to GET OUT of the vehicle.) BUT she was NOT "JUST." There is a WHOLE LOT MORE, and the videos I have seen CLEARLY SHOW more that what Duk ALLEGES and, imo, CLEARLY SHOWS that Duk is WRONG.
3) YES, she was trying to get away, AND IN DOING SO, headed RIGHT for the ICE officer who shot to PROTECT himself. (The claim was also made that he feared for other ICE Officers in the area.)
4) The DRIVER DEFINITELY USED her vehicle TO ATTACK the Officer. Driving away is one LIMITED perspective and DRIVING AT THE Officer is DEFINITELY ATTACKING the Officer.

Let me reiterate: She and her partner were harassing the ICE officers MOST of the day and trying to be an "ICE WATCH" Activist. Her vehicle was sideways in the Road. WHY? To block and HARRASS ICE Officer. She was NOT simply an observer; she injected herself into the CONFLICT by:
a) being there,
b) being there to HARASS ICE most of the day,
c) and while attempting to LEAVE FLEE the scene, she went towards that ICE Officer who defended himself by shooting. If you do not want to be arrested, do not overstep the boundaries. SHE DID.
d) If you do not want to get shot, do not threated LEGAL officers doing LEGAL work to arrest ILLEGAL Immigrants. The THREAT is that SHE DROVE HER Vehicle TOWARD the officer.

And did I mention the Minneapolis mayor ADMITTED that the ICE Officer was hit and injured by the vehicle as the woman tried to FLEE? Check the video, also linked below.

Dukasaur wrote: Sat Jan 10, 2026 10:18 am
jusplay4fun wrote: Sat Jan 10, 2026 2:16 am
Tell me that she did NOT INSERT herself into the scene and taking actions to IMPEDE Legal actions by officers of the LAW.
Yes, she inserted herself into the situation to help protect her neighbours against the vicious masked thugs invading her city, as any responsible citizen would. Just because evil men are given guns and badges by a vicious overlord doesn't make their actions legitimate. Communities have a right to defend themselves against armed incursion.

Again FALSE. NOT Masked THUGS. You certainly suffer from TDS, Duk. Little Doubt. INVASION? Get Real; what obfuscation. "EVIL men"? do you mean the criminals and child rapists? The ones the LEFTIST try to protect? Armed incursion? Getting DEEP here, even more. FALSE narrative, Duk. Try harder. We are a nation of LAWS, Duk.

The LEFTIST are loosing here, are now reduced to REPEATING LIES and their supporters on the street are reduced to VIOLENCE. What moral high ground they THOUGHT they owned is crumbling under the EVIDENCE, under their LIES, under their FALSE Narratives, and under the VIOLENCE they commit. The perceived Moral High Ground of the Leftist crumbles as they continue to protect and hide violent criminals, rapists, murders, and actual thugs that are among the community of IMMIGRANTS. And these CRIMINALS are mostly harming the good hard working folks in the Immigrant Community.

MORE FACTS:

What we know:
President Donald Trump said today on Truth Social that he would invoke the Insurrection Act if Minnesota politicians "don’t obey the law and stop the professional agitators and insurrectionists from attacking the Patriots of I.C.E., who are only trying to do their job."

The Insurrection Act, a rarely used 1807 law, gives the president the authority to deploy the military domestically without prior congressional approval.

The Department of Homeland Security said a federal officer shot a Venezuelan man in the leg in Minneapolis last night, alleging the man fled after a traffic stop and attacked the officer.

The shooting came a week after an Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer shot and killed Renee Nicole Good in the city, sparking local and nationwide protests and vigils.

Protests have continued, with federal agents using tear gas and flash bang devices on the streets of Minneapolis. Video showed protesters launching fireworks at officers.

Around 3,000 federal agents have been sent to Minnesota in what DHS says is the biggest operation in its history. The city has about 600 police officers, Mayor Jacob Frey said.

Trump and senior government figures have said they are determined to root out "corruption" they have linked to the local Somali population.

Gov. Tim Walz called on the federal government to end the "occupation" and said agents were "kidnapping people for no reason."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/li ... rcna254161

In the Quote above, NBC failed to mention that the Insurrection Act was last invoked Los Angeles in 1992 during the riots following the beating of Rodney King.

MORE FACTS ignored by NBC: the extent of the violence in Minneapolis, Here is ONE such example:
https://www.fox9.com/news/ice-shooting- ... an-15-2026

and MORE:

"A highly respected judge declined to block I.C.E. operations in the very politically corrupt State of Minnesota. I.C.E. will therefore be allowed to continue its highly successful operation of removing some of the most violent and vicious criminals anywhere in the World, many of them murderers, from the State. The great patriots of Law Enforcement will continue to make our Country safe. RECORD LOW CRIME NUMBERS!!!" Trump wrote.

and

Omar ripped for 'inciting violence' after Minneapolis ICE shooting: 'Make sure these people pay'

'We are going to make sure that these people pay for what they have done to us!' Omar screamed during Minneapolis protest

Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., is facing backlash from critics for encouraging violence after two separate shootings involving federal immigration agents in Portland and Minneapolis last week.

Critics have pointed to comments Omar made in a cable television interview accusing ICE of murder and other things she said this weekend while protesting in Minneapolis. Along with two other House members, she was seen on video visiting a Minneapolis detention facility over the weekend, flanked by a hoard of protesters and ICE hecklers.

Another video from the weekend showed Omar riding in the back of a pickup truck leading protesters through Minneapolis streets and telling folks that "we are going to make sure that these people pay for what they have done to us."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-r ... people-pay

As I said, from the Leftists:

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[jusplay4fun]

The LEFTIST are loosing losing {edited after Duk Copied this in his response} here, are now reduced to REPEATING LIES and their supporters on the street are reduced to VIOLENCE.

What moral high ground they THOUGHT they owned is crumbling under the EVIDENCE, under their LIES, under their FALSE Narratives, and under the VIOLENCE they commit. The perceived Moral High Ground of the Leftist crumbles as they continue to protect and hide violent criminals, rapists, murders, and actual thugs that are among the community of IMMIGRANTS. And these CRIMINALS are mostly harming the good hard working folks in the Immigrant Community.

[Dukasaur]

The LEFTIST are loosing here, are now reduced to REPEATING LIES

I haven't bothered to grind my way through all your copypasta, but it seems you are the one "REPEATING LIES".

Let's review some fairly indisputable facts:

1. ICE is invading neighbourhoods in a deliberately provocative manner in order to satisfy the more hawkish members of the MAGA movement. I know you and I disagree about immigration, but I don't want to digress into that. We have at least two other threads threads to debate immigration. It really isn't the point here. Even if one accepts that some of the deportations are justified, ICE could pick up a lot more immigrants just by keeping a low profile and scooping them up without any fanfare. This business of invading neighbourhoods with massive force, zooming around in armoured vehicles, strutting around suburban streets with full body armour and machine guns, kicking down doors, dragging people down the sidewalk, ripping babes out of their parent's arms, etc., etc., is purely for publicity. It excites Trump's donors ("W00T! W00T! Our boys are kicking the shit out of the spics!") while striking fear into middle America. The fact that people will get hurt is inevitable. As many commentators have pointed out, cruelty IS the whole point. Striking fear into the community, teach those who would oppose the regime of just what the regime can do.
2. Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with the core mission or not, people have a right (I believe a duty, but even if you disagree with me, you have to admit they have the right) to protest against these violent incursions into their neighbourhoods. There's nothing wrong with neighbourhood watch groups and civil libertarians doing everything they (legally) can to protect their friends and neighbours.
3. Renee Good was doing what, as a citizen of what was once a free country, she felt she had a right and a duty to do: to protest injustice and to (non-violently) obstruct the injustices being done to her community.
4. Renee remained calm and peaceful for the entire time, in the face of agents who were abusive and aggressive. A woman, unarmed, standing up to big burly men armed brandishing all kinds of military hardware, keeping her cool and acting legally. She is a hero and a saint. The actions of the ICE agents prove conclusively that they are not real cops in the civilized sense. Real cops are trained to try to de-escalate situations, to treat citizens with respect even when disagreements arise, and to try to prevent doing things that might lead to violence. The fact that the ICE agents tried to escalate rather than de-escalate, and provoke violence rather than prevent violence, leads us back to point (1), the fact that this is a publicity stunt for the MAGA donors and an attempt to subdue peace-loving communities with fear.
5. It was only when they started pulling on the door handle that she panicked and tried to drive away. This has always been the way of tyrannical police forces: provoke fear in the victim, make him panic and run, and then shoot him while he runs under the pretense that he was "escaping custody."
6. As she drove forward, she turned her wheel sharply to the right to avoid hitting Ross. Numerous videos have been posted, they all show her turning her wheel to the right to avoid hitting him. Anyone repeating that she was "trying to run him down" is unequivocally lying.
7. He shouldn't have been standing in front of her car to begin with. The ICE training manual clearly instructs agents NEVER to pass in front of a car that might move, and NEVER to put themselves in a position where violence might become inevitable. Why did he pass in front of her car? Was it just stupidity, or false bravado? A clue might be the study that Mookie posted a couple days ago. If you haven't read it, maybe you should. This is not the first time an ICE agent has jumped in front of a car and then shot the driver. It's almost become a trademark move of theirs. In TOTAL VIOLATION of their own operations manual. ICE agents have done this in many instances. They seem to relish the idea that a car will move in their direction and give them a pretext to kill someone.
8. Videos have been posted showing how Ross (who was filming up to this point) switched his phone from his right hand to his left so that he could draw his gun. This was BEFORE she started moving. He clearly had the intention of at least being ready to shoot her, even if it hadn't quite gotten to the moment when the murder occurred. Maybe if he had used that moment to get the hell out of her path instead of drawing his gun, she would have harmlessly driven away.
9. Despite her best attempts to avoid this idiot in front of her, her car did touch him. So yes, technically he was "struck", as you never tire of repeating ad nauseam. He was only "struck" in the most narrow technical sense. His remained standing the whole time, so the contact was functionally insignificant. If he had been at all injured, he would have at least temporarily lost his balance. It's completely dishonest to claim he was in any kind of danger. The car was moving slowly, steering away from him. It momemtarily made contact but not enough momentum was transferred to make him change his position. You are, or were, a physics teacher, no? You are aware of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. You know that if he had been "struck" in any meaningful sense, his body would have been unbalanced, at least slightly. The fact that he remained standing and squeezed off three accurate shots reveals the disingenuity of the "struck" nonsense.
   Today I head more of this spin. Apparently, they are now saying he had "internal bleeding". More disingenuity. A tiny bruise is "internal bleeding." If I yell at someone, I will probaly pop a couple small capillaries in my cheeck, lose a microlitre of blood, and that too is "internal bleeding". His body showed no transfer of momentum, so it's conceivable that he got a tiny bruise but no real damage. We all get tiny bruises on a regular basis just from normal everyday activities.
10. So, as a recap, these ICE agents have been terrorizing communities to thrill MAGAts and generate headlines for their master. People have a right to protest and to obstruct them as much as legally possible. Renee Good was a completely nonviolent person and no danger to anyone. ICE agents threatened and intimidated her. When she panicked and tried to drive away, she was shot in cold blood. An ICE agent deliberately violated his own operations manual and walked in front of her car, in order to put himself in the path of danger and give himself a thin legal pretext to score a kill. She did her best to avoid hitting him, although a completly trivial contact was made, giving him the excuse he wanted. He is a murderer, plain and simple.

[HitRed]

Ice is not an invading power. It is part of the government of the USA.

[Dukasaur]

Ice is not an invading power. It is part of the government of the USA.

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".

[HitRed]

When the Allies entered France it was an invasion. When British entered Washington DC it was an invasion. When Ice operates in the USA it’s NOT an invasion.

[mookiemcgee]

When the Allies entered France it was an invasion. When British entered Washington DC it was an invasion. When Ice operates in the USA it’s NOT an invasion.

The Gestapo didn't invade Germany either.

South Americans haven't been invading the US either.

side note: Maga is still sore the allies won the war.

[jusplay4fun]

Ice is not an invading power. It is part of the government of the USA.

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".

First of ALL, most of what I posted was NOT copy and paste as Duk alleges. #1 LIE. Unless I quoted it, I thought of it WITHOUT looking up what someone else typed, posted, or said. I do admit to reading and reseaching, mostly from the sources I cite and quote, BUT I do NOT go to ANY websites of what others post to FIND and copy what others say. Maybe others do so that you disagree with Duk, but NOT ME. PERIOD.

#2 when was the TOP photo taken? under what context? NOTE that Duk provided NO context. INVASION? NO, HitRed answered THAT silly allegation, call it LIE #2.

In the top photo, I see ONLY two policemen on Horseback. I see LOTS of fire trucks and equipment. How can this be:

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".

Unless Duk is willing to provide context, call it LIE #3.

The bottom photo is from Waco, TX and David Karesh, DONE under Clinton and his AG Janet Reno. That was

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".?

under a Democrat President? REALLY??? NAW, call it LIE #4.

Let get to the LIST that I WILL ALLEGE that Duk copied and pasted:

1. ICE is invading neighbourhoods in a deliberately provocative manner in order to satisfy the more hawkish members of the MAGA movement.

NO proof offered on THIS (or nearly any of Duk's) allegation. Since you added that charge to "SATISFY hawkish members of the MAGA movement" I will, for now, call this LIE #5. Show support for such an allegation and will consider reclassifying this as Obfuscation or part of a false narrative.

2. Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with the core mission or not, people have a right (I believe a duty, but even if you disagree with me, you have to admit they have the right) to protest against these violent incursions into their neighbourhoods. There's nothing wrong with neighbourhood watch groups and civil libertarians doing everything they (legally) can to protect their friends and neighbours.

Protest. YES. Peaceful protest? Yes. Was she peaceful? That depends on your definition. Was she on the sidewalk, standing, out of harm's way? We know the answer, everyone, with common sense: NO. Renee Good was there to INTEREFERE with and obstruct LEGAL ICE operations to find ILLEGAL Aliens by using her vehicle, parked at a right angle to the normal flow of traffic. There is STILL NO Liberal here on CC to admit to THIS FACT. She was a member of ICE Watch; I did COPY and PASTE that report and there has BEEN
a) no rebuttal, and
b) NO comment on this FACT that I recall seeing or reading here in this CC Forum.

Protect Friends (DID she KNOW any ILLEGAL Aliens? NOT likely, and thus a FAILED attempt to try AGAIN to seize the Moral Highground) and Neighbors? IDK. I think I heard a report that she lived near where this incident happened, but IDK how close and if she KNEW anyone in that particular neighborhood, so again, this follows the SAME argument I made about their "FRIENDS."
Is this a LIE? THis borders on it and I will, to be nice, call it obfuscation.

3. Renee Good was doing what, as a citizen of what was once a free country, she felt she had a right and a duty to do: to protest injustice and to (non-violently) obstruct the injustices being done to her community.

I agree with #3 until Duk get to "once a free country...." Freedoms have not been DIMINISHED, despite the LEFTIST attempt to characterize the situation in their FALSE Narrative. It would be TOO far to call this an actual LIE, but I do not think ALL in thnis point these are FACTS and are NOT necessarily or LIKELY TRUE, considering the Duk and Leftist SPIN on this concept. Much of this is Duk's editorial comments on SOME (or a FEW) facts and HIS interpretations of those facts and events.

4. Renee remained calm and peaceful for the entire time, in the face of agents who were abusive and aggressive. A woman, unarmed, standing up to big burly men armed brandishing all kinds of military hardware, keeping her cool and acting legally. She is a hero and a saint. The actions of the ICE agents prove conclusively that they are not real cops in the civilized sense. Real cops are trained to try to de-escalate situations, to treat citizens with respect even when disagreements arise, and to try to prevent doing things that might lead to violence. The fact that the ICE agents tried to escalate rather than de-escalate, and provoke violence rather than prevent violence, leads us back to point (1), the fact that this is a publicity stunt for the MAGA donors and an attempt to subdue peace-loving communities with fear.

These statements are falling into a pattern. Does anyone else see it? Duk starts with the Facts and Truth, as shown on various videos of the incident in question, BUT before he finishes, he has twisted the FACTS, via HIS interpretations, to meet his preconceived narratives.

This portion is very telling:
The fact

that the ICE agents tried to escalate rather than de-escalate, and provoke violence rather than prevent violence,

Duk is certainly casting aspersions and TRYING to put these ICE Officers present, and THUS ALL ICE Officers, in the WORST possible light, again to fit his FALSE and preconceived narrative of this entire incident.

Bastante para ahora.

[jusplay4fun]

When the Allies entered France it was an invasion. When British entered Washington DC it was an invasion. When Ice operates in the USA it’s NOT an invasion.

The Gestapo didn't invade Germany either.

South Americans haven't been invading the US either.

side note: Maga is still sore the allies won the war.

merely silliness.

I think Mookie is upset that I called him on nearly ALL his posts in this thread and ONLY pounds the Table. He offers NO FACTS HERE.

[Dukasaur]

When the Allies entered France it was an invasion. When British entered Washington DC it was an invasion. When Ice operates in the USA it’s NOT an invasion.

Funny. I would have pegged you as a States' Rights guy. I thought you'd be all over this kind of Federale overreach.

[Dukasaur]

#2 when was the TOP photo taken? under what context? NOTE that Duk provided NO context. INVASION? NO, HitRed answered THAT silly allegation, call it LIE #2.

In the top photo, I see ONLY two policemen on Horseback. I see LOTS of fire trucks and equipment. How can this be:

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".

Unless Duk is willing to provide context, call it LIE #3.

It's a historical photograph! How are you alleging a historical photograph to be a lie? Did you think it was forged? I know we live in a Photoshop world, but 40 years ago that wasn't being done.

As far as context, I did not think I needed to explain it to you. You're roughly the same age as me, so I figured you'd remember the Philadelphia bombing. Forgive me if I credited you with more historical awareness than you actually possess.

In the Philadelphia bombing, the cops dropped aerial bombs on their civilian population. Actual war munitions, designed for use against foreign military powers, were dropped on a (mostly) defenseless population. Some members of a black activist cell called MOVE were holed up in their apartment, and fired on the police when the police came to arrest them. It was considered appropriate to drop military-grade munitions on them and destroy an entire city block. Four people in the house were wanted by the police. The bombs killed six adults and five children. Four wanted by the law; eleven dead. Do the math.

An entire city block was allowed to burn, leaving 250 people homeless.

This is what happens when cops think forcing the populace to submit is more important than treating people with dignity.

The bottom photo is from Waco, TX and David Karesh, DONE under Clinton and his AG Janet Reno. That was

When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".?

under a Democrat President? REALLY??? NAW, call it LIE #4.

Once again, what do you interpret as a "LIE"? Do you think the photograph is a forgery? Do you say the event never happened? What?

Why do you think it's significant that this was perpetrated under a Democrat President? Do you think Republicans are entitled to a monopoly on evil deeds?

This portion is very telling:
The fact

that the ICE agents tried to escalate rather than de-escalate, and provoke violence rather than prevent violence,

Duk is certainly casting aspersions and TRYING to put these ICE Officers present, and THUS ALL ICE Officers, in the WORST possible light, again to fit his FALSE and preconceived narrative of this entire incident.

How could I have preconceived notions about this incident? Like you, had no advance knowledge that this incident would take place. I first saw it through videos posted online by people who were actually there. I could only judge what I could see with my own eyes. There's a lot of video available, from different people with different ideas, from different angles. If you sum it all up and pay attention only to what you can see, the key things are very clear. Yes, we might argue about political motives and such, but you cannot dispute that she was a harmless unarmed woman, being threatened and intimidated by angry men with automatic weapons etc. You cannot dispute that as she tried to escape, she turned her wheels to the right to try to avoid hitting Ross, and that if her car did indeed touch him, his body did not show any change in posture, which means the effect of the whimsically-named "strike" was insignificant. You do understand universal Conservation laws, one of which is the Conservation of Angular Momentum? All these facts are clearly visible in various videos posted online.

You cannot dispute that Ross violated the rules in the ICE manual, which has been introduce into the official Record of your House of Representatives, and which clearly states that agents are not to cross in front of cars or do other dangerous moves which might result in a use of deadly force outcome? What exactly is it you're disputing?

[jusplay4fun]

Let's take a look at some of Duk's responses:

10. Duk's conclusion:

So, as a recap, these ICE agents have been terrorizing communities to thrill MAGAts and generate headlines for their master.

NO evidence; I call this conjecture, at best, and a POSSIBLE LIE without PROOF that THIS is INDEED the intent of ICE actions in Minnesota. This is an attempt to AGAIN SEIZE the Moral Highground, to make Duk and other Liberal FEEL GOOD about this death. FOR SOME, and NOT necessarily for Duk, this is an attempt to turn Renee Good into a SAINT and MARTYR for the Liberal Cause of protecting ILLEGAL Aliens and ILLEGAL CRIMINAL Aliens. Many want to make her a HERO for the LEFT.

Re: ICE vs THE Disrupters!!!
Post by Dukasaur » Sat Jan 17, 2026 7:21 pm

jusplay4fun wrote: Sat Jan 17, 2026 4:36 pm
#2 when was the TOP photo taken? under what context? NOTE that Duk provided NO context. INVASION? NO, HitRed answered THAT silly allegation, call it LIE #2.

In the top photo, I see ONLY two policemen on Horseback. I see LOTS of fire trucks and equipment. How can this be:
When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".
Unless Duk is willing to provide context, call it LIE #3.
It's a historical photograph! How are you alleging a historical photograph to be a lie? Did you think it was forged? I know we live in a Photoshop world, but 40 years ago that wasn't being done.

As far as context, I did not think I needed to explain it to you. You're roughly the same age as me, so I figured you'd remember the Philadelphia bombing. Forgive me if I credited you with more historical awareness than you actually possess.

In the Philadelphia bombing, the cops dropped aerial bombs on their civilian population. Actual war munitions, designed for use against foreign military powers, were dropped on a (mostly) defenseless population. Some members of a black activist cell called MOVE were holed up in their apartment, and fired on the police when the police came to arrest them. It was considered appropriate to drop military-grade munitions on them and destroy an entire city block. Four people in the house were wanted by the police. The bombs killed six adults and five children. Four wanted by the law; eleven dead. Do the math.

An entire city block was allowed to burn, leaving 250 people homeless.

This is what happens when cops think forcing the populace to submit is more important than treating people with dignity.

jusplay4fun wrote: Sat Jan 17, 2026 4:36 pm
The bottom photo is from Waco, TX and David Karesh, DONE under Clinton and his AG Janet Reno. That was
When paramilitary forces with heavy hardware are used against unarmed civilians, it's a pretty disgusting perversion of the concept of "government".?

under a Democrat President? REALLY??? NAW, call it LIE #4.
Once again, what do you interpret as a "LIE"? Do you think the photograph is a forgery? Do you say the event never happened? What?

Why do you think it's significant that this was perpetrated under a Democrat President? Do you think Republicans are entitled to a monopoly on evil deeds?

Second, for the TOP Photo, you did NOT IDENTIFY it; I assumed it was the Philly block that LOCAL Police action caused a FIRE. THAT was NOT Federal Troops, but since you did NOT ID it, I could not comment on it intelligently. I do not recall LOTS of details, and I agree, that based on my CURSORY RECALL of events that causing the

An entire city block was allowed to burn, leaving 250 people homeless.

was indeed a TRAGEDY that LIKELY did NOT need to occur. BUT, too, as I recall, the criminals that were barracaded in those homes ("Row Houses" again as I recall) were very violent and did not surrender, leaving the police FEW options. I will not bother to look up details, for now.

And YES, I do recall reading about that incident in Philadelphia, BUT I do NOT recall ALL photos from that incident, so I did NOT want to address the situation without context or certainty of what is in discussion. Again, you provided little CLUES as to what the photo was about. I was SUPPOSED to surmise and assume it was Philly? And if IT WERE NOT, you or someone would have RIDICULED me for THAT mistake? You know that that is LIKELY here among those with small brains.

Since you did PROVIDE context, I withdraw the allegation of LIE #3, Duk.

Third, the Second Photo I KNEW and said was WACO. Again, based on my recall, the events spiraled rather to a CRITICAL point and the pretext for action was to save the LIVES of CHILDREN Karesh was holding. I think the FIRE went unexpected OUT OF CONTROL. THAT was a Federal Action.

LIE?

unarmed civilians

???
Doubt it.

On Feb. 28, 1993, ATF agents arrived at the property and were ambushed by armed cult members who had been hiding after a local postman, who was also Koresh's brother-in-law, had tipped them off about the raid.

Four ATF agents and six members of the group were killed in the ensuing two-hour gun battle.

https://www.newsweek.com/david-koresh-w ... ge-1789421

Hence THE LIE #4. (I Looked THAT up to be sure my memory was NOT faulted, so DO NOT fault me copy and paste HERE, Duk. I admit my memory, though GOOD, is NOT perfect. The LIE is unarmed civilians in Waco, TX.

NEXT:
by Dukasaur » Sat Jan 17, 2026 7:21 pm

and that if her car did indeed touch him, his body did not show any change in posture, which means the effect of the whimsically-named "strike" was insignificant. You do understand universal Conservation laws, one of which is the Conservation of Angular Momentum? All these facts are clearly visible in various videos posted online.

As far as the ICE Officer stepping in front of Good's VEHICLE: DUMB and DUMMM. Why did he shot rather that JUMP out of the way? I cannot answer that and SIMPLY IDK. Will he be charged in her death? NOT my decision. Is he GUILTY of MURDER or reckless use of his FIREARM? Again, I am not in position to make THAT call.

BTW: Realize TOO that I have been on TWO juries, A Grand Jury and another Jury in a case where we decided the outcome. I do have experience with Legal System. And YES, I have been stopped by Police (2 Speeding tickets and once for my Tag where the yearly decal fell off, NO ticket on that one).

And Yes, having TAUGHT Physics in High School and taking Physics courses in High School and College, I do understand the Laws of Conservation of Momentum, both Angular and Linear.

Duk's statement HERE sound VALID to me:

9. The car was moving slowly, steering away from him. It momemtarily made contact but not enough momentum was transferred to make him change his position. You are, or were, a physics teacher, no? You are aware of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. You know that if he had been "struck" in any meaningful sense, his body would have been unbalanced, at least slightly. The fact that he remained standing and squeezed off three accurate shots reveals the disingenuity of the "struck" nonsense.
Today I head more of this spin. Apparently, they are now saying he had "internal bleeding". More disingenuity. A tiny bruise is "internal bleeding." If I yell at someone, I will probaly pop a couple small capillaries in my cheeck, lose a microlitre of blood, and that too is "internal bleeding". His body showed no transfer of momentum, so it's conceivable that he got a tiny bruise but no real damage. We all get tiny bruises on a regular basis just from normal everyday activities.

and 8.

Maybe if he had used that moment to get the hell out of her path instead of drawing his gun, she would have harmlessly driven away.

Yes, I wondered that TOO when I saw the first video(s) of the incident. Why did he NOT move OUT of the path of the vehicle? She did NOT ACCELERATE (via speed) rapidly foward, BUT the rather sudden change of DIRECTION MAY have caught him off-guard, AND to BE TECHNICAL, that TOO can be called ACCELERATION, since velocity and acceleration are both VECTOR quantities (i.e., DIRECTION, forward or reverse, Matters here)

ALSO, IF he were struck SIGNFICANTLY, I think the ICE Officer would have had a hard time shooting accurately at the VICTIM and the SHOOTING DID NOT stop the vehicle, so I am puzzled, at least a bit, that he SHOT and did not JUMP out of the path of the vehicle. AGAIN, I am NOT in position to determine the accountability HERE, but Duk does make valid points, and the same with the matter of "internal bleeding."

I will say that having been trained as both an ICE Officer and a soldier, his training "KICKED IN" and he acted as he was trained. I doubt that he had time to make a long deliberated calculation and assessment as the ENTIRE incident of the vehicle going forward, AFTER first being put in REVERSE, happened in mere seconds, based on all videos I have watched on this Tragic Incident.

KEY POINT:
The entire incident, as Duk and I others here have discussed, is filtered through our BIASES and our pre-conceived notions of RIght and Wrong. I admit that in MY perspective. I have yet to hear (and read) that Duk, Mookie, or any other Liberal (or any other person) has admitted to such. Hence, those persons who disagree want to CLAIM that ONLY their viewpoint is VALID.

SHOW me otherwise, based on DISCUSSION in THIS thread on THIS matter.

People keep trying to CLAIM that THEIR Viewpoint ONLY is valid. I will applaud Duk as he has chosen to engage in a discussion in a thoughtful, well-articulated, and well-analyzed manner. We can disagree on our INTERPRETATION of the FACTS as we see them, but are least we are willing to engage in a civil debate and reasonable discussion.

[jusplay4fun]

The matter of the Philadelphia burning in May 1985 is complicated, and like the Waco situation, involved violence and firearms by those opposing Law Enforcement. This is NOT a simple Good Guys vs. Bad Police scenario, as apparently Duk wants to paint it.

Escalation into violence

The city struck a deal with MOVE in the summer of 1978: the city would release some MOVE members who had been arrested and jailed if the organization left their building and turned over their weapons. Though the city freed the MOVE members, MOVE did not leave their building. On August 8 police raided the house with water canons and battering rams. MOVE opened fire from the basement, killing a Philadelphia police officer, James Ramp. Sixteen others were injured in the raid.

https://www.britannica.com/event/MOVE-Bombing

Since I could recall enough FACTS to discuss this matter intelligently, I did LOOK up some FACTS to refresh my memory. I shared some of that above.

Before anyone else comments in this matter, other than Duk (who seems to have a decent but not totally accurate recall of events), I suggest you READ up on this before offering your ideas.

and MORE, from the SAME Source, to help others understand more FACTS in this TRAGIC situation:

Police crackdown
On May 12, 1985, police began evacuating the residents of Osage Avenue on the orders of Wilson Goode, the city’s first Black mayor. The next morning, about 500 police officers undertook a plan to forcefully remove the organization from the residence on orders from Goode and Police Commissioner Gregore Sambor.

Things did not go according to plan. About 6 am Sambor issued a final warning to MOVE members in the house that they had 15 minutes to evacuate. Instead, someone inside the house fired on the assembled police. In response, police shot back, and over the course of the next 90 minutes, they fired more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Still MOVE members would not leave the compound; heavily armed police tried to break down the walls through adjoining houses and used small incendiary devices to no avail. At one point, Goode held a press conference, telling reporters he intended to “seize control of the house…by any means possible.” (...)

Aftermath
A special commission investigated the actions of that day and heard testimony from 90 witnesses over the course of five weeks. Their final report, issued in March 1986, concluded, among other things, that “dropping a bomb on an occupied row house was unconscionable” and that “the plan to drop the bomb was reckless, ill-conceived, and hastily approved.”

SAD, very sad. Poor decisions made by MANY, over a long time, and NOT just by the POLICE.

[Dukasaur]

People keep trying to CLAIM that THEIR Viewpoint ONLY is valid. I will applaud Duk as he has chosen to engage in a discussion in a thoughtful, well-articulated, and well-analyzed manner. We can disagree on our INTERPRETATION of the FACTS as we see them, but are least we are willing to engage in a civil debate and reasonable discussion.

Agreed. And with that, let's leave it. I think we've beaten this horse into ground chuck.

[Dukasaur]

This is NOT a simple Good Guys vs. Bad Police scenario, as apparently Duk wants to paint it.

Bad Police, certainly. But I did not say the others were Good Guys. I did mention four of them had outstanding arrest warrants, and that they opened fire on police. Nonetheless, not all the people in the house were guilty, and certainly not the younger children.

In the news one often hears the story of someone who burns down their own house trying to smoke out a wasp nest or a spider. When one sees a story like this on the news, there's a round of chuckles and "how could anyone be so stupid?" The MOVE bombing seems to be the same kind of thing on a grand scale. Blowing up a bunch of children and leaving 250 people homeless to arrest four criminals is very much like burning down your house to smoke out some wasps.

It also reminds me of this scene from First Blood. This is fiction, of course, but deals with several real-life issues:

{Sheriff Teasle} OK, Colonel, now you've got us all scared to death, what do you and the special forces think we do with the psycho out there?
{Colonel Trautman} - Let him go.
{Sheriff Teasle} - Do what?
{Colonel Trautman}- For now.
Defuse the whole situation, defuse him. Provide a little gap and let him slip through it.
Then put out a nation wide APB. In a couple of weeks you'll pick him up in Seattle or someplace, working in a car wash. There'll be no fight and nobody else will get hurt.
{Sheriff Teasle} I do my own work. I don't figure the best way to do that is to close my eyes and hope he gets picked up in Seattle!
{Colonel Trautman}If you send your people in there after him, they'll get killed.
{Sheriff Teasle} We're just a small hick town sheriff's department, colonel, but we're expected to do our duty just like our heroes in the special forces.

Trautman is the voice of reason here. Let him go, defuse the situation. In a week you'll pick him up somewhere, he'll calmly go along. Teasle is the voice of testosterone. "That fucker ignored my orders, I'm going to hunt him down even if he kills half my guys and burns down my town in the process!"

Bit of a digression, I know. But it illustrates the point. You don't HAVE to do a full frontal assault on a fortified position. The Philadelphia police could have said, "let them go. In a week they'll get hungry. We'll tackle them at the food bank." But they put enforcing submission ahead of saving lives. Eleven dead, 250 homeless.

[jusplay4fun]

This is NOT a simple Good Guys vs. Bad Police scenario, as apparently Duk wants to paint it.

Bad Police, certainly. But I did not say the others were Good Guys. I did mention four of them had outstanding arrest warrants, and that they opened fire on police. Nonetheless, not all the people in the house were guilty, and certainly not the younger children.

In the news one often hears the story of someone who burns down their own house trying to smoke out a wasp nest or a spider. When one sees a story like this on the news, there's a round of chuckles and "how could anyone be so stupid?" The MOVE bombing seems to be the same kind of thing on a grand scale. Blowing up a bunch of children and leaving 250 people homeless to arrest four criminals is very much like burning down your house to smoke out some wasps.

It also reminds me of this scene from First Blood. This is fiction, of course, but deals with several real-life issues:

{Sheriff Teasle} OK, Colonel, now you've got us all scared to death, what do you and the special forces think we do with the psycho out there?
{Colonel Trautman} - Let him go.
{Sheriff Teasle} - Do what?
{Colonel Trautman}- For now.
Defuse the whole situation, defuse him. Provide a little gap and let him slip through it.
Then put out a nation wide APB. In a couple of weeks you'll pick him up in Seattle or someplace, working in a car wash. There'll be no fight and nobody else will get hurt.
{Sheriff Teasle} I do my own work. I don't figure the best way to do that is to close my eyes and hope he gets picked up in Seattle!
{Colonel Trautman}If you send your people in there after him, they'll get killed.
{Sheriff Teasle} We're just a small hick town sheriff's department, colonel, but we're expected to do our duty just like our heroes in the special forces.

Trautman is the voice of reason here. Let him go, defuse the situation. In a week you'll pick him up somewhere, he'll calmly go along. Teasle is the voice of testosterone. "That fucker ignored my orders, I'm going to hunt him down even if he kills half my guys and burns down my town in the process!"

Bit of a digression, I know. But it illustrates the point. You don't HAVE to do a full frontal assault on a fortified position. The Philadelphia police could have said, "let them go. In a week they'll get hungry. We'll tackle them at the food bank." But they put enforcing submission ahead of saving lives. Eleven dead, 250 homeless.

Agreed, agreed, Duk: let's move on.

and, as I said previously, regarding Philadelphia and MOVE movement:

SAD, very sad. Poor decisions made by MANY, over a long time, and NOT just by the POLICE.

[HitRed]

Minneapolis software engineers mistaken for ICE agents while eating lunch harassed by anti-ICE crowd

https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis- ... -ice-crowd

[riskllama]

duk wins this thread.

[karel]

nobody should be mad at ice,only the commies against them and maybe these people need to self deport to a real commie country and live there

[jusplay4fun]

nobody should be mad at ice,only the commies against them and maybe these people need to self deport to a real commie country and live there

Let's look at Venezuela as an example of a country headed down the road the to Communism, before the removal of Maduro and his wife. (Assume, if you will, that that course has been signficantly changed and even reversed.)

NOW some FACTS to start this discussion:

7.9 million
More than 7.9 million Venezuelans have left the country since 2014. This is the largest exodus in Latin America’s recent history and one of the largest displacement crises in the world (as of December 2025).

6.9 million
The vast majority of Venezuelans, 6.9 million, are hosted by countries in Latin America and the Caribbean (as of December 2025).

23%
23 percent of the population has fled the country and people continue to leave at an average of 2,000 per day.
(...)

More Facts

A majority of displaced Venezuelans live in Colombia, Peru, United States, Ecuador, Chile, Spain and Brazil.
Colombia currently hosts the largest number of Venezuelans, nearly 3 million.
More than 4.4 million residence and legal stay permits have been granted to Venezuelans since 2014.

https://www.unrefugees.org/emergencies/venezuela/

Why are these people leaving? I will give you at least 3 reasons:
1) Political repression, torture, imprisonment;
2) Economic depression;
3) Corruption, that led to the basic collapse of the Oil industry.

4) The illegal drug trade, involving military leaders receiving "Economic Benefits" is another Factor, and is now a main source of their GDP.

and, while we are looking at Facts, let's see how well California, Home of Newsom, Kamala, and Mookie, is doing finacially:

California facing projected $18B deficit as Newsom heads into his last year as governor

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California will face a projected $18 billion deficit next year, setting up a challenge for Gov. Gavin Newsom to safeguard some of the progressive policies that have defined his tenure as he considers a presidential run.

The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office projected the shortfall in a report released Wednesday. It would mark the state’s fourth deficit in a row. State spending continues to grow much faster than revenues, and new federal policy changes to health care and food assistance programs for low-income people will also increase costs for the state by $1.3 billion, the report says.

https://apnews.com/article/california-b ... 101a65a2e4

Another Shining example on a Hill of something Liberals can take PRIDE in as they march forward, arms linked with Corrupt Judges, rapists, murderers, child molesters, and other criminals. Well Done, Gavin, Kamala, AWFULs and Mookie. And keep your rats on a short leash; I don't want them in my Home.

Is YOUR Gavin Newsom an

unreliable politicians

Mookie?

[mookiemcgee]

I see, so you feel like budgets passed with deficits mean leadership is bad? I guess that means that all republicans in the house and senate, as well as Trump are completely ineffective since the US last year had a 2 TRILLION DOLLAR deficit. CA is about 15% of the US economy, so even if we accept the 18 billion dollar figured which is NOT an official figure (the official figure is 3 billion) that would mean the republicans in power federally who you support are around 1200% worse at balancing a budget than the CA gov't.

The other thing missing from your 2nd grader level analysis is that virtually ALL of the shortfall is due to CA picking up the tab for things republicans federally defunded in 2025 under their 2.2 trillion deficit bill, like free food for starving children, and health care for kids and poor people. When a gov't prioritizes it's citizens over giving the richest 1% tax breaks that's actually a good thing in my book, I think most real christians would agree.

Jusplay also suggests people are leaving Venezula ergo it has poor leadership... yet the US had negative immigration in 2025 entirely because of his Trumps words and policies.

I wonder if the lady ICE shot in the face three times would view her own death as:
1) Political repression, torture, imprisonment;

Good think we know Trump isn't tied to any:
3) Corruption