Smoking in Bars

[Symmetry]

Symmetry, you sound like someone who gott addicted to ciggaretes when they used to make you 'cool', and now that when you smoke you look and smell like a tool, you start pouting and whining.

So, the government is stopping you from doing an action that has been proven to be life threatening, and you get angry at them?

Try this: stop bitching, and try quitting your disgusting habit. Because, now adays, if you smoke in a bar like that, legal or not, you will hurt someone else whose trying to have a good time, and, not matter how self-righteous you try to be, you will always end up looking like the dousche.

Madness- you don't know what I look or smell like. What an odd thing to suggest.

The government isn't stopping me from smoking, and that's not even the point I was making. I suspect, like DM, you are mistaking the government in your country for government in general.

The point is whether or not I should be allowed to smoke in a bar where it's legal to do so, where people know that there will be smoking, where I take into consideration other people, and where there is a non-smoking section that can be used by those who feel I'm being disgusting simply by lighting up.

Oh, and I'm giving up smoking as my New Year's resolution anyway.

[Neoteny]

I only smoke when I drink, and I'm well aware of the hazards of smoking. I also don't like pricks who tell me what to do, so if my second-hand smoke makes you go away, then my mission has been accomplished. I am a very polite smoker and tend to actually remove myself from a building to smoke, out of courtesy to others. But anyone who gets in my face about it usually gets a faceful of carcinogen. And I hope they're asthmatic. Ass.

[Snorri1234]

I only smoke when I drink, and I'm well aware of the hazards of smoking. I also don't like pricks who tell me what to do, so if my second-hand smoke makes you go away, then my mission has been accomplished. I am a very polite smoker and tend to actually remove myself from a building to smoke, out of courtesy to others. But anyone who gets in my face about it usually gets a faceful of carcinogen. And I hope they're asthmatic. Ass.

QFT!

[AlgyTaylor]

I have to disagree with you on this point you made. I own a bar and believe you me, I have seen my fair share of people hurting people when they drink.

Hmmm - I see what you're getting at, but ...

(1) It's harming people when they're drunk, as opposed to the act of drinking alcohol. The drinking itself is harmless, unlike smoking.

From my experience smokers are more aggressive when you don't let them smoke, which is probably worse (just kidding)

Don't go saying stuff like we should cut them off from the booze. Sometimes it doesn't take but on drink to make these people go berserk.

Aye, totally - it's a mental thing more than alcohol-induced IMO. If you look in the UK, the amount of drink-related violence has been going down in the last 20 years or so. Beer's by and large getting stronger. To me that suggests that alcohol =/= violent behaviour.

[Snorri1234]

Still, I've never heard of someone killing someone else because he was asked not to smoke.

[Guiscard]

Still, I've never heard of someone killing someone else because he was asked not to smoke.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6925419.stm

[Snorri1234]

Still, I've never heard of someone killing someone else because he was asked not to smoke.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6925419.stm

Ok wtf.

[lilacfrostyness]

It's illegal to smoke anywhere inside a public place in my state...

[muy_thaiguy]

They passed a law in my town with no smoking in many public buildings (including bars). It has pissed many people off, needless to say. It's not a state wide thing, just in my town. Most of the people that signed it (I think) where those that come here for college for a few years, whine and bitch about the locals, decided to do this, vandalise some property, and left. The way it was eventually put into law was that enough people signed a petition for it. I don't smoke, so it really doesn't affect me, but it does to many other people who now have to be at least 10 ft away from the building before they can smoke. If you ask me, it's a bunch of bull if it goes into the bars. Because if you are drinking and not smoking, just trading one risky substance for another, in my eyes.

[Curmudgeonx]

Hmm, In response to DM's train of thought: Of course the government (any government) can legislate restrictions on the public and private behavior of its citizens. That is the social contract that everyone, regardless of nationality, works under.

The level of involvement by your respective government is the topic that Jay and Symmetry were exploring, i.e. get your damn ape hands off my cigs.

The debate over cigarettes is a microcosmic argument as to the role that government should play in our lives. Of course smoking is bad for you, and there is minor evidence that it may be bad for third parties (however, not as bad as living next to a highway, but we don't ban diesel semis, but I digress).
DM's stabbing fork argument is the age-old analysis of where an individual's rights end, and the other person's begins. Notwithstanding DM's ad hominem arguments, my personal opinion is that if tobacco products are legal for sale in the jurisdiction in which you reside, the the restrictions upon usage are appropriate by the individual whose property you are visiting/invited to.

I am of the mindset that government should have a lesser role in my life as I am generally competent to live my life. I do not wear my seat belt in my car, although my social contract with my government allowed the legislature to follow the whims of the majority (or majority of business interests) and pass legislation requiring me to do so. If I have allowed my government to restrict me via seat belts, where the harm is exclusively to me, then I should expect that they will (and have) restricted the use of tobacco products, whether it is scientifically viable that it harms third parties or just myself. It just is what it is. If I don't like, then I need to either change the law, change the social contract, move, or break the law.

[btownmeggy]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

[Snorri1234]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

I fully agree. Lots of bars have very few or no smokers, so people should just shop around more regarding bars.

[jay_a2j]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to smoke or because they didn't WANT to smoke? What are the laws there? Can you legally smoke in that bar? Were the ashtrays placed there as a reminder of the attacks on freedoms? So many questions.....

I don't even frequent bars....I just see the ban as a "control" the government wants to impose.

[btownmeggy]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to smoke or because they didn't WANT to smoke? What are the laws there? Can you legally smoke in that bar? Were the ashtrays placed there as a reminder of the attacks on freedoms? So many questions.....

Teacher Btown Says: Use your "context clues", jay.

[Snorri1234]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to smoke or because they didn't WANT to smoke? What are the laws there? Can you legally smoke in that bar? Were the ashtrays placed there as a reminder of the attacks on freedoms? So many questions.....

Teacher Btown Says: Use your "context clues", jay.

Which means Google.

[jay_a2j]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to smoke or because they didn't WANT to smoke? What are the laws there? Can you legally smoke in that bar? Were the ashtrays placed there as a reminder of the attacks on freedoms? So many questions.....

Teacher Btown Says: Use your "context clues", jay.

Which means Google.

No, which means she doesn't know the laws or she does and that explains why NO ONE WAS SMOKING.

[heavycola]

Crack is ILLEGAL. And as of now, in most states, so is gay marriage (not recognized by the government) Now, banning smoking would be perfectly fine, if cigarettes were illegal.

What does legality have to do with it? The government is an instrument of the lizard overlords, nothing more, and should not be relied upon to dictate your moral stances.


Ahem:
Like neoteny i am only a drinking smoker these days, so the ban has stopped me smoking as much, which is good.
But as far as civil rights go, at the end of the day cigarettes are lethal. Smoking is a really fucking stupid thing to do.
And in a country where healthcare is taxpayer-funded, then yes, the govt perhaps has a moral obligation to eradicate smoking as much as possible. As far as I know the ban has had a positive effect on public health in scotland.

[Snorri1234]

Wow. Nearly everyone in this thread seems really angry.

I don't care one way or another, really.

Sure, I don't like going to bars and coming out smelling like smoke. However, you can prevent that not only by not going to a bar, but by carefully choosing which bars you go to. Some bars, in locales without the smoking bans, have non-smoking policies. Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to smoke or because they didn't WANT to smoke? What are the laws there? Can you legally smoke in that bar? Were the ashtrays placed there as a reminder of the attacks on freedoms? So many questions.....

Teacher Btown Says: Use your "context clues", jay.

Which means Google.

No, which means she doesn't know the laws or she does and that explains why NO ONE WAS SMOKING.

Google says Oregon hasn't banned smoking in bars as of yet.
And seriously, if there are ashtrays it's kinda obvious you can smoke there. Sure there is a possibilty that it was a protest against not being able to smoke, but since the only one who could ban that were the barowners it's kinda silly for them to place ashtrays.

[btownmeggy]

Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Google says Oregon hasn't banned smoking in bars as of yet.
And seriously, if there are ashtrays it's kinda obvious you can smoke there. Sure there is a possibilty that it was a protest against not being able to smoke, but since the only one who could ban that were the barowners it's kinda silly for them to place ashtrays.

I provided an introductory statement for the argument, "Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke." I gave an idea of the location, "a microbrewpub" (so not a dive-bar). I provided a clearly identifiable indicator that a certain sort of behavior is expected, or at least tolerated "ashtrays every few seats down the bar". But then I added an interesting twist, "NO ONE WAS SMOKING" and met it with an appropriate "Wow." When we put together all of these factors, what information can we logically glean?

[Snorri1234]

Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke. I was in a microbrewpub in Oregon the other day. There were ashtrays every few seats down the bar and on every table. But I looked around. And NO ONE WAS SMOKING. In a crowded bar at 8pm. Wow.

Google says Oregon hasn't banned smoking in bars as of yet.
And seriously, if there are ashtrays it's kinda obvious you can smoke there. Sure there is a possibilty that it was a protest against not being able to smoke, but since the only one who could ban that were the barowners it's kinda silly for them to place ashtrays.

I provided an introductory statement for the argument, "Others simply have clienteles that tend to not smoke." I gave an idea of the location, "a microbrewpub" (so not a dive-bar). I provided a clearly identifiable indicator that a certain sort of behavior is expected, or at least tolerated "ashtrays every few seats down the bar". But then I added an interesting twist, "NO ONE WAS SMOKING" and met it with an appropriate "Wow." When we put together all of these factors, what information can we logically glean?

Conspiracy?

[Blitzaholic]

drinking and smoking seem to go hand in hand

it is a hard qeustion, I can see both sides

[DirtyDishSoap]

Really dont care who smokes and where

long as they dont blow it in my face then im fine with em

[Semigall]

Smoking should be banned worldwide, just like other addictive drugs.

[Snorri1234]

Smoking should be banned worldwide, just like other addictive drugs.

Tabacco is not a drug like others. It doesn't alter your perception or anything. It's just addictive.

But do you also think alcohol should be banned?

[Symmetry]

Bumpage!