Conquer Club

Finally a reasonable person.

Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

And once again I say, humans have done little to nothing that has affected the climate change, so how are so supposed to stop Mother Nature, assuming the phenomenon is as big as the people who blow it completely out of proportion say it is.

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

. . . oceanfront property in Orlando, a vast area of the temperate zones moving to two-crop years, a melting of the permafrost which would allow the tapping of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas, a return of the Sahara to the jungle biozone it once was . . .

cmckinney wrote:

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

And once again I say, humans have done little to nothing that has affected the climate change, so how are so supposed to stop Mother Nature, assuming the phenomenon is as big as the people who blow it completely out of proportion say it is.

If it is as big as people who exaggerate say it is, then we are affecting it.

Snorri1234 wrote:

cmckinney wrote:

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

And once again I say, humans have done little to nothing that has affected the climate change, so how are so supposed to stop Mother Nature, assuming the phenomenon is as big as the people who blow it completely out of proportion say it is.

If it is as big as people who exaggerate say it is, then we are affecting it.

That line of "reasoning" leads to madness and voting for Al Gore.

Curmudgeonx wrote:

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

. . . oceanfront property in Orlando, a vast area of the temperate zones moving to two-crop years, a melting of the permafrost which would allow the tapping of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas, a return of the Sahara to the jungle biozone it once was . . .

Try, Hurricane alley in Florida with uninsurable property, vastly expanding desert areas in southwestern US, north Africa and western China, permafrost melt that accelerates warming by absorbing sunlight, increased deforestation through fires and pests, fresh water shortages in major cities,... well just to name a few

Do today's youth want to rely on real estate developers and oil companies to mange our response to this process?

Curmudgeonx wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

cmckinney wrote:

mpjh wrote:Again I ask, does it matter what is the cause of climate change? The challenge for the young today is to find a way to manage our change in response. We can have famine, dislocation and wars, or .....

And once again I say, humans have done little to nothing that has affected the climate change, so how are so supposed to stop Mother Nature, assuming the phenomenon is as big as the people who blow it completely out of proportion say it is.

If it is as big as people who exaggerate say it is, then we are affecting it.

That line of "reasoning" leads to madness and voting for Al Gore.

Couldn't have been worse than the other option.

No no no, we are definitly a contributer, in a bad way. We had increased CO2 levels BEFORE the global climate change process really began to snowball. That has never happened before. I believe that the Earth is about 10 degrees hotter worldwide than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change.

We just aren't the cause of the climate change, there is a difference.

Juan_Bottom wrote:No no no, we are definitly a contributer, in a bad way. We had increased CO2 levels BEFORE the global climate change process really began to snowball. That has never happened before. I believe that the Earth is about 10 degrees hotter worldwide than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change.

We just aren't the cause of the climate change, there is a difference.

Indeed.

Juan_Bottom wrote:No no no, we are definitly a contributer, in a bad way. We had increased CO2 levels BEFORE the global climate change process really began to snowball. That has never happened before. I believe that the Earth is about 10 degrees hotter worldwide than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change.

We just aren't the cause of the climate change, there is a difference.

And here we go off on CO2 again. Everyone claims that CO2 causes global warming, when the evidence is to the contrary. The temperature rises before C02 rises in many cases, which means C02 doesn't cause it.

IF you look at the relation between solar activity and global warming, the correlation is very evident. Scientists agree that the sun's activity is at a much higher level then it has been in the last 8,000 years. Coincidence? I think not.

And i love how you all ignore the points I make against you.

And as for the whole 10 degrees thing, that's just not true.

cmckinney wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:No no no, we are definitly a contributer, in a bad way. We had increased CO2 levels BEFORE the global climate change process really began to snowball. That has never happened before. I believe that the Earth is about 10 degrees hotter worldwide than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change.

We just aren't the cause of the climate change, there is a difference.

And here we go off on CO2 again. Everyone claims that CO2 causes global warming, when the evidence is to the contrary. The temperature rises before C02 rises in many cases, which means C02 doesn't cause it.

IF you look at the relation between solar activity and global warming, the correlation is very evident. Scientists agree that the sun's activity is at a much higher level then it has been in the last 8,000 years. Coincidence? I think not.

And i love how you all ignore the points I make against you.

Hey dorkwade, I don't believe that man has created global warming. Congratulations on ignoring my posts.
I believe it is solor caused. But I'm not so retarded as to not notice that man had raised the level of CO2 ahead of its natural process. Which in turn, has intensified the global climate change cycle.
I already said exactly what you just did.

I just said the exact opposite...

That CO2 plays little to no part in it.

cmckinney wrote:I just said the exact opposite...

That CO2 plays little to no part in it.

What? Why not? What have you been reading?

Juan_Bottom wrote:No no no, we are definitly a contributer, in a bad way. We had increased CO2 levels BEFORE the global climate change process really began to snowball. That has never happened before. I believe that the Earth is about 10 degrees hotter worldwide than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change.

We just aren't the cause of the climate change, there is a difference.

"Earth is 10 degrees hotter . . . than it has ever been in the past, during this part of the climate change"

What the hell does that mean?

"Ever been in the past" = last 4.5 billion years . . .

"during this part of the climate change" = whatever you might want it to mean, does it mean now, a million years ago, this last age we are coming out of . .

If you knew what you were talking about, then you would know what I'm talking about.

We all agree that this is a natural cycle correct?

Well, looking at this cycle, throughout all of earth's history, the earths mean temp is 10 degrees hotter than it should be right now.

Curmudgeonx wrote:"Ever been in the past" = last 4.5 billion years . . .

Which really does give us a lot of data. So 10 degrees is considered significant. But this in no way means that the Earths system is all out of wack.

You must have misread my above post. C02 emissions are not the cause of global warming. What I was saying was that the temperature increases many years before C02 emissions go up. If you look at the data, the concentration of the two seems to be apparently unrelated. So I am not arguing against Juan on this issue, I'm arguing against the "carbon footprint" lovers.

The earth is just on a basic climate change "schedule"

1930's: Global Warming is considerably worse than it is today.
1970's: Global Cooling fear spreads throughout the world; nearly identical to today.
2000's: Global Warming is back.

We've had multiple ice ages, and the recovery from them; with no human involvement. I can only assume they were much much worse than it is today.

This global warming is no worse than the hundreds we have experienced before. The only difference this time around is that we have people like Al Gore.

Juan_Bottom wrote:If you knew what you were talking about, then you would know what I'm talking about.

We all agree that this is a natural cycle correct?

Well, looking at this cycle, throughout all of earth's history, the earths mean temp is 10 degrees hotter than it should be right now.

Curmudgeonx wrote:"Ever been in the past" = last 4.5 billion years . . .

Which really does give us a lot of data. So 10 degrees is considered significant. But this in no way means that the Earths system is all out of wack.

What should it be right now?
Source?

Watch this movie: An Inconvenient Truth

It's a great movie which really makes you think about what is happening to the world.

cmckinney wrote:You must have misread my above post. C02 emissions are not the cause of global warming.

??

cmckinney wrote:What should it be right now?
Source?

Check the original Global Warming thread. TZOR posted something about it in there. It was his source. I was originally argueing that Global Warming had nothing to do with people.

cmckinney wrote:C02 emissions are not the cause of global warming.

Agreed.

Not saying things are out of whack with the Earth at all, I am simply saying that the climate becomes cooler and warmer on a cyclical basis and that the cycles are so significant and compelling in both terms of timespan and irresistible-ness that our puny belching of CO2 into the atomosphere is statistically irrelevant when looking the cycles.

Snorri1234 wrote:

cmckinney wrote:You must have misread my above post. C02 emissions are not the cause of global warming.

??

How can you say that they are?

White Moose wrote:Watch this movie: An Inconvenient Truth

It's a great movie which really makes you think about what is happening to the world.

I dismiss this as Al Gore propaganda.