Conquer Club

mordigan wrote:player seems to be complaining that some people don't feel able to pay for their kids to have medical examinations, and is blaming those people's employers. i'm merely responding to that.

Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

Night Strike wrote: Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

don't you think that part of the government's role is to help its citizens survive? isn't that why humans created government in the first place?

PLAYER57832 wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

jj3044 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I guess free healthcare is not the proper type of "Affordable" for the Affordable Care Act.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/08/obama ... ed-people/

If by "free healthcare" you mean that you and me pay for someone else's healthcare out of our own pocket when a hospital has to give charity care, then you are correct, that is not what the Act is supporting.

With the individual mandate there shouldn't be the need for charity care (much) anymore, so the days of the not-for-profit hospitals are ending.

This is a logical provision of the Act from my position.

Right, it forces people who already can't afford to pay for their own insurance to now go and buy insurance that costs even more. And it makes it illegal for hospitals to give out free heath care to those who don't have health insurance. How does that improve health care and keep people from dying in the streets, which is the only progressive standard to whether a law is good?

This is the result of folks like you decrying the better models (ALL of them!) as "socialism".
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. Or, in this case.. you cannot have full profit insurance and also fully free care for those who need it. Someone has to pay for the profits of the insurance companies.

What? "Someone has to pay for the profits of X."

How does that make sense?

Usually, it goes, "someone has to pay for the taxes which support/are given to others." lolwut

Not much superficial difference.. if you consider all to be just mere exchanges of money. If, however, you consider what is acheived... taxes are supposed to go for things necessary, for the good of all. Profits are for individuals to spend as they wish. Pretty big difference, that!

If you can't tell the difference between a 'business that hires several organizations which explicitly force people to pay for services which they do or do not need and a business which produces goods/offers services which people can simply pick without being compelled by that business's use of force, then you're not going to make sense.

john9blue wrote:

Night Strike wrote: Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

don't you think that part of the government's role is to help its citizens survive? isn't that why humans created government in the first place?

Haha, you're funny.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

john9blue wrote:

Night Strike wrote: Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

don't you think that part of the government's role is to help its citizens survive? isn't that why humans created government in the first place?

Haha, you're funny.

haha, it's a legit question. care to answer?

john9blue wrote:

Night Strike wrote: Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

don't you think that part of the government's role is to help its citizens survive? isn't that why humans created government in the first place?

Government's role is to keep the peace between individuals of the community or of an outside community. We gave up some of our autonomy in order to have a system that punished law breakers, enforced contracts, provided for the relations and defense of outside groups, etc. We did not sign up to hand over all of our labors to the government to then let them apportion out our allotted amounts. We're still expected to provide for ourselves and our families, and to help others if we so choose.

Night Strike wrote: Government's role is to keep the peace between individuals of the community or of an outside community. We gave up some of our autonomy in order to have a system that punished law breakers, enforced contracts, provided for the relations and defense of outside groups, etc. We did not sign up to hand over all of our labors to the government to then let them apportion out our allotted amounts. We're still expected to provide for ourselves and our families, and to help others if we so choose.

--Andy

Night Strike wrote:

mordigan wrote:player seems to be complaining that some people don't feel able to pay for their kids to have medical examinations, and is blaming those people's employers. i'm merely responding to that.

Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

you seem to be confused. player and i were talking about people's salaries, not the welfare state. or do you consider a salary to be a 'hand out'?

and anyway, night strike, who's paying for your children's education, the police who protect them, the roads they travel on etc.? how much tax do you pay in a year?

The functional difference between that which we call "government" and that which we call "gang" is very small. The only difference is the reliability in executing those functions.

john9blue wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

john9blue wrote:

Night Strike wrote: Player, along with many other progressives, believes her expenses are supposed to be paid by other people. It's someone else's job to make sure you get enough handouts to survive; it's not your responsibility to provide for your own family. That has become the entire problem with our welfare state: people think they deserve it as a way of life.

don't you think that part of the government's role is to help its citizens survive? isn't that why humans created government in the first place?

Haha, you're funny.

haha, it's a legit question. care to answer?

What is the origin of politics?

It depends on where one would like to start. There's familial, tribal, and associations of tribes. That's basic. Then, it "progresses"--depending on how you view various forms of governments in different places over the centuries.

It's a broad question, john. A government can have many roles, so it's not exclusively about "helping others." What political scientists have generally done up til the 1960s or so was to assume that politicians and bureaucrats are selfless, so with that assumption, we can say, "sure, humans create governments to help their citizens!" But is that true? I highly doubt it.

Do people create government? Some fraction does, the rest don't, and at other times do. It depends, to be very brief.

Where you do want to go with this?

BBS- Saxi tells me you've been been missing me, I didn't know that you'd degenerated into replying to PhatScotty's "evil Obama" threads.

Symmetry wrote:BBS- Saxi tells me you've been been missing me, I didn't know that you'd degenerated into replying to PhatScotty's "evil Obama" threads.

I'm offended! POLICE!!!! POLICE!!!!

mordigan wrote:and anyway, night strike, who's paying for your children's education, the police who protect them, the roads they travel on etc.? how much tax do you pay in a year?

I don't have any kids yet, but I play plenty of state and federal income tax, sales tax, and property tax for my status in life. I did not have negative tax rates for either income tax. I pay the taxes needed to participate in society; it's not also my role to work so that other people can do nothing or refuse to better themselves and earn more on their own.

Night Strike wrote:

mordigan wrote:and anyway, night strike, who's paying for your children's education, the police who protect them, the roads they travel on etc.? how much tax do you pay in a year?

I don't have any kids yet, but I play plenty of state and federal income tax, sales tax, and property tax for my status in life. I did not have negative tax rates for either income tax. I pay the taxes needed to participate in society; it's not also my role to work so that other people can do nothing or refuse to better themselves and earn more on their own.

So those who have a negative tax rate can't participate in society? Any government grants for your education?

Evil Semp wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

mordigan wrote:and anyway, night strike, who's paying for your children's education, the police who protect them, the roads they travel on etc.? how much tax do you pay in a year?

I don't have any kids yet, but I play plenty of state and federal income tax, sales tax, and property tax for my status in life. I did not have negative tax rates for either income tax. I pay the taxes needed to participate in society; it's not also my role to work so that other people can do nothing or refuse to better themselves and earn more on their own.

So those who have a negative tax rate can't participate in society? Any government grants for your education?

They can participate in society....it's not my responsibility to pay their bills for them unless I choose to.

I had a couple state scholarships for high grades and staying in the state for school, but not much. It's still not relevant though...that penchant of money will be repaid through higher taxes from my higher income. I'm not doing nothing all day while being given endless amounts of money from the government.

Night Strike wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

mordigan wrote:and anyway, night strike, who's paying for your children's education, the police who protect them, the roads they travel on etc.? how much tax do you pay in a year?

I don't have any kids yet, but I play plenty of state and federal income tax, sales tax, and property tax for my status in life. I did not have negative tax rates for either income tax. I pay the taxes needed to participate in society; it's not also my role to work so that other people can do nothing or refuse to better themselves and earn more on their own.

So those who have a negative tax rate can't participate in society? Any government grants for your education?

They can participate in society....it's not my responsibility to pay their bills for them unless I choose to.

I had a couple state scholarships for high grades and staying in the state for school, but not much. It's still not relevant though...that penchant of money will be repaid through higher taxes from my higher income. I'm not doing nothing all day while being given endless amounts of money from the government.

You sir are an ***. You think anyone who takes assistance will do nothing except you.

Evil Semp wrote:You sir are an ***. You think anyone who takes assistance will do nothing except you.

When did I say that? There are many people who will use it as a true safety net and work to get off public aid as soon as possible. There are also many who won't. The government is actively working to increase the latter.

you realize that there aren't actually enough jobs in the US for everyone to have one, right?

BigBallinStalin wrote: What is the origin of politics?

It depends on where one would like to start. There's familial, tribal, and associations of tribes. That's basic. Then, it "progresses"--depending on how you view various forms of governments in different places over the centuries.

It's a broad question, john. A government can have many roles, so it's not exclusively about "helping others." What political scientists have generally done up til the 1960s or so was to assume that politicians and bureaucrats are selfless, so with that assumption, we can say, "sure, humans create governments to help their citizens!" But is that true? I highly doubt it.

Do people create government? Some fraction does, the rest don't, and at other times do. It depends, to be very brief.

Where you do want to go with this?

i was thinking along the lines of early tribalistic government born from the need to survive.

mordigan wrote:you realize that there aren't actually enough jobs in the US for everyone to have one, right?

And the ones that ARE present are part-time because of Obamacare.

in the past three weeks i've had 5 guys quit on me.

1 was "afraid of spiders"
1 "didn't like being in the woods"
1 "didn't like walking all day"
1 quit because "this job wasn't for him"
the last rode with the one above so he quit too.

i am a surveyor and we are staking out clearing limit stakes. we have to go 40-50 feet into the woods and put a stake.
this job would pay 35-50k a year. you wont' be rich, but there is advancement oppurtunities that can put you up to 60-80k within a year or two. it's brainless and simple. just be ready to sweat.

there's work, it's just the majority of this country acts like a bunch of sissies.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:in the past three weeks i've had 5 guys quit on me.

1 was "afraid of spiders"
1 "didn't like being in the woods"
1 "didn't like walking all day"
1 quit because "this job wasn't for him"
the last rode with the one above so he quit too.

i am a surveyor and we are staking out clearing limit stakes. we have to go 40-50 feet into the woods and put a stake.
this job would pay 35-50k a year. you wont' be rich, but there is advancement oppurtunities that can put you up to 60-80k within a year or two. it's brainless and simple. just be ready to sweat.

there's work, it's just the majority of this country acts like a bunch of sissies.

The American spirit has been/is being destroyed

Symmetry wrote:BBS- Saxi tells me you've been been missing me, I didn't know that you'd degenerated into replying to PhatScotty's "evil Obama" threads.

Saxi plots against us. Look at him seated by himself as he munches on his popcorn.

As to The PhatScotticals, one man's trash is another man's garbage. As is said in the Book of Garbology.

john9blue wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote: What is the origin of politics?

It depends on where one would like to start. There's familial, tribal, and associations of tribes. That's basic. Then, it "progresses"--depending on how you view various forms of governments in different places over the centuries.

It's a broad question, john. A government can have many roles, so it's not exclusively about "helping others." What political scientists have generally done up til the 1960s or so was to assume that politicians and bureaucrats are selfless, so with that assumption, we can say, "sure, humans create governments to help their citizens!" But is that true? I highly doubt it.

Do people create government? Some fraction does, the rest don't, and at other times do. It depends, to be very brief.

Where you do want to go with this?

i was thinking along the lines of early tribalistic government born from the need to survive.

Oh, well, I don't know much about it, but for some basic theories. It's hard to get a large sample of such, past societies.