Poker Club [Quenched]

[BBoz]

Look separate to me. Someone could argue they look like they could almost touch, but every other connection is a card overlap, not a card touch.

[D.IsleRealBrown]

I was just playing the new poker club "beta" map. I set up a 6 player game singles game because I was having so much fun playing a triples game on the same map. Anyway, each player is only started with 6 armies...and needless to say, can be knocked out before ever taking a turn... Something has to change here. IF you're going to start a game with so few armies, then the "random" part needs to be taken out of it. There should be assigned cards that each player starts on, OR make it so one player isn't set up to take someone out in the first or second move.

/endrant

[Johnny Rockets]

Um.....Beta.

Perhaps you should P.M. the author or post this in foundry. I'm sure they would apreciate the feedback....


Johnny Rocketfingers

( Just like JohnnyRocket 24 but better looking, and with more money. )

[cicero]

Moved from General Discussion to Map Foundry > Foundry Discussion.

Foundry Mods please merge with the Poker Map thread.

Cicero

[Bones2484]

I looked at the game you are referring to.

You took a turn before pink. You didn't take pink's territory. Pink killed you.

Stop crying and making up lies.

[D.IsleRealBrown]

I was just playing the new poker club "beta" map. I set up a 6 player game singles game because I was having so much fun playing a triples game on the same map. Anyway, each player is only started with 6 armies...and needless to say, can be knocked out before ever taking a turn... Something has to change here. IF you're going to start a game with so few armies, then the "random" part needs to be taken out of it. There should be assigned cards that each player starts on, OR make it so one player isn't set up to take someone out in the first or second move.

/endrant

I looked at the game you are referring to.

You took a turn before pink. You didn't take pink's territory. Pink killed you.

Stop crying and making up lies.

I'm not sure what you're inferring, but I never said I was taken out in the first move. I just said it was possible. Pink also had 5 armies between my 3 each. I'm not one to go after 5 with only 6 early in the game, but I certainly didn't see him taking out my 9 armies with only 8 of his own.

This issue will come up again, it's just a bad set up. There are so many neutral cards, I don't see why we don't start with 9 armies like you normally would.

Love the map though. Great idea.

Can a mod delete any additional posts by bones that are off-topic. Thanks.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

yeah it's possible to be taken out before your first turn, but 6v3,3,3 (if you happen to get 2 region that have a common adjoining region) is a mere 5%.

More likely is that 2 players go 6v3,3 (each at 29%).

I have played this map a fair bit though and haven't seen it happen that much - the most likely scenario in all cases is that they fail and you get to counter attack very easily. So as with most things on CC, it is less about the possibility of things happening and more about the odds of them happening.

[D.IsleRealBrown]

Clearly it's about the odds.

By you're own calculations, the odds are almost 5x greater to be taken out on the first turn with only 6 armies...

[Bones2484]

As soon as I go off topic, feel free to delete them. But you won't need to.

Look at the game, D.Isle.

1. Pink attacked a neutral to get next to you on his first turn.
2. You deployed and did not shoo him away.
3. Pink attacked your territories and got lucky, killing you.

The map is already set up so that there are neutrals between starting territories. Yes you got unlucky that he had such great luck, but that can happen on almost any map when you have that many players. It's entirely possible for the last player in a game on classic to have been eliminated before he gets the chance to go if there are enough players.

If you don't like it, play bigger maps.

Additionally, your original claim (that I was countering in my first post) was that someone could be eliminated on the first turn. I hardly see how that is possible. That would entail someone taking out a minimum of 3 territories (1 neutral and 2 of yours) with a combined total of 9 armies with a starting total of 6. It's not going to happen (well, it can... but very rarely as it requires a perfect drop AND perfect dice).

[Bones2484]

Clearly it's about the odds.

By you're own calculations, the odds are almost 5x greater to be taken out on the first turn with only 6 armies...

Actually, it's not 5 times greater. Benji stated that each player would have 29% chance, not that there's a 29% chance to be eliminated.

For Benji's calculations to make more sense, you'd have to multiply the .29 by .29 and come to an 8% chance for that to happen. Not to mention that this would infer that two separate players (who I assume would not have a secret diplomacy) to individually decide they want to try to eliminate you.

Like I said, it can happen in almost every map with the right amount of players.

[D.IsleRealBrown]

Additionally, your original claim (that I was countering in my first post) was that someone could be eliminated on the first turn. I hardly see how that is possible. That would entail someone taking out a minimum of 3 territories (1 neutral and 2 of yours) with a combined total of 9 armies with a starting total of 6. It's not going to happen (well, it can... but very rarely as it requires a perfect drop AND perfect dice).

I'm certainly not going to argue who got unlucky and who didn't, that's obvious enough. BUT he did have 5 armies between my 3,3. If he wanted, and/or gotten lucky enough rolls like he did in his second turn, he could have taken me out. That's all my point is.

Thanks for toning it down a bit.

[yeti_c]

As Benji says - this isn't going to happen very often - in fact I think it's less likely to happen than in the classic map due to the amount of neutrals that we have on the board.

Previous discussion was possible about reducing the neutrals to ease movement - but this comment shows that it's a good idea not to reduce them - so 3 they shall stay.

C.

[Redgio1]

hi! a question ... i was in game 3566936 last hand i had 2 10s and 3 7s, it was supposed to give me 9 reinforcements while it gave me 8 for a flush i bet 5 of same colour couse i had 5 of same colours too plus 1 for 15 territoires. It isn't supposed to give reinforcements depending on best combination owned?
ty
maybe i haven't understood well how it works

[Bones2484]

hi! a question ... i was in game 3566936 last hand i had 2 10s and 3 7s, it was supposed to give me 9 reinforcements while it gave me 8 for a flush i bet 5 of same colour couse i had 5 of same colours too plus 1 for 15 territoires. It isn't supposed to give reinforcements depending on best combination owned?
ty
maybe i haven't understood well how it works

Huh? You had 2 10s and 3 7s. That's a Full House, not a flush. You were given points for a Full House (which is higher than a Flush) correctly.

I just looked through that game, you never received points for a flush. You went straight from 3 of a kind to Full House.

Just in case you are confused by the bonuses, the values listed at the top are for the best hand plus the 1 army. ie: The value of 9 that is listed is 8+1.

[scottp]

[quote='yeti_c']The 6 of clubs touches and borders the 4 of Hearts & the 7 of Spades.[/quote]

hmmm. I thought I encountered a situation where the 4h and 7s were not accessible from 6c. Perhaps I was just relying on BOB's highlighting function. If 4h and 7s were neutral, I guess I might have missed the white highlighting. Or maybe I'm just blind or stupid! Glad they are, in fact, connected - since that's definitely how they look to me!

On the gameplay issue, I agree the movement around the board is extremely cumbersome with all the neutrals. I encountered an opponent dropping 2 pair, or perhaps within just one move of a two pair. That early advantage was insurmountable.

What if players started with 4 or 5 or even 6 armies on each territory? More possibilities would exist for building a very strong hand and/or cutting off one's opponent, since movement would be more doable.

[yeti_c]

On the gameplay issue, I agree the movement around the board is extremely cumbersome with all the neutrals. I encountered an opponent dropping 2 pair, or perhaps within just one move of a two pair. That early advantage was insurmountable.

What if players started with 4 or 5 or even 6 armies on each territory? More possibilities would exist for building a very strong hand and/or cutting off one's opponent, since movement would be more doable.

The only problem with this - the only way to do it would be to use the <positions> tags...

And this means that in 1v1 games - people would start with 8 territories - and not 5... this means that the chances of a player starting with a bigger bonus are a lot higher... (Note all other player numbers wouldn't be affected)

Hmmm - Thoughts?

C.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

so you are saying you can fix all game types so as toi remove pairs on the drop etc, but at the expense of 1v1s.

IMO it isn't all that good a 1v1 map, so that would be an OK consequence for me.

[yeti_c]

so you are saying you can fix all game types so as toi remove pairs on the drop etc, but at the expense of 1v1s.

IMO it isn't all that good a 1v1 map, so that would be an OK consequence for me.

Not quite...

I was saying that the odds for the pairs etc are still the same for all of the game types...

But we can start the armies at say 6 for all of the territories instead of 3 - but that would change the 1v1 game to have 8 territories to start instead of 5.

C.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

ah - more cogitation required then!

[Redgio1]

ty bones .. that's why isn't very clear, i was waiting for 9 reinf for the full house, plus 1 apart as it appears on the eplications of reinforcements in the game log.
It said 8 plus 1 so i went looking for what gave 8 reinf .. and was a flush!
thanks

[jasn]

Theres only one Royal Flush on the map, that can easily be conquered (on the left upper corner, i think its clubs).
That makes an advantage for the one, who starts up there..

Maybe one of the cards should be switched to the southeastcorner.

[sl0p0k]

The fact here you only get 1 army no matter how many territories/cards you have is killing this board for me.

[khazalid]

great map on fog settings, well done.

[yeti_c]

The fact here you only get 1 army no matter how many territories/cards you have is killing this board for me.

Get yourself a better hand?!

C.

[ctgottapee]

my two cents, not like there worth much....

i do appreciate those who take the time to make new maps, and i thought this concept sounds great
where it lacks is the execution, and that may be because there is no good conquer club type play that will work

most of the map is single paths unlike most maps that are collections of adjoined territories, along with few starting armies or potential for bonuses, it pretty much sets up a preordained path to follow, so luck of the draw is damn near key.

due to the small starting troops and bonuses, trying to develop a hand is painful at best, and with limited paths, you pretty much have to attack what you have to attack regardless of card values, so it is just placement luck if said card gained actually gets you a good hand.

the only time the play go interesting was with the last three players of an eight player game, where each player was well developed with hand options and finally a bit of strategy, but still fairly thin compared to other maps so it went fast.

i'm not totally sure how to fix it, except that a suggested starting game be limited to 4 players and each person be given a larger starting placement so there can be some decent action
also some wild cards could be interesting, but damn near impossible to code i imagine
or maybe trying to make the neutral territories differnt army amounts, like say some 2 armies, but some larger armies towards the middle

i think the fact that so many cards are needed for a good hand (continent) and they are not interconnected like a traditional continent makes it tough; maybe if the game was black jack where fewer cards were needed, it would have some more strategy.

IMHO, all i know is that this map doesn't work with a lot of players, and is only relatively interesting with fewer ones
cheers
ct

and i noticed the top left of the board is the power spot where you can develop good hands and even fall back hands; nothing wrong with that, just a notice