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[/]

Agreed, we will probably receive better info and results if we look into someone yet unclaimed. I'll re-read.

[spiesr]

Agreed, we will probably receive better info and results if we look into someone yet unclaimed. I'll re-read.

Yeah, right now you and nagerous look like about as good of targets as anybody, but we don't really have a case against either of you.

[nagerous]

I don't mind claiming if you think it will help speed the game up, but I think what I can contribute won't necessarily help the game at this stage.

[/]

Ah, even after a reread nothing seems to tie to scum, still for the sake of the game I'm going to vote icedagger for submarining.
He has pretty much posted nothing of substance all game (besides being very against claiming), Ice hasn't even made a single vote after his day one joke vote.

[Snorri1234]

Icedagger hasn't been here indeed.

[Nzen]

I accept the risks that accusation carry. I know I gamble greatly when I attack spiesr's motives, but I do not pursue this in the fashion Iliad did suspect. A specific statement clinched my suspicions: spiesr says he watched snorri. If I receive a reasonable answer about why, specifically why scum might visit him as opposed to me, spiesr, or Iliad, then I will back down.

Iliad could have been scum, town or what he was. Fine, look at another target, four more had claimed. Scum only killed randomly day 1; thereafter, they killed the leader each night. AceArtemis initiated FDM's lynch, pmchugh led Drench's, and Iliad exploded against suspect. Obviously, they could have cited other reasons. Yet, these patterns are not obtuse. I fail to see one in the four reports spiesr gave.

I'll restrict it to his two: Drench and snorri. Snorri is nothing to me. Whatever his secret is, he hasn't given anything away. He could be scum; he could be town. But, why are scum going to off him over the watcher or the lovers? Plus, last night marked the second night since AceArtemis' last spell wore off. That would give them a free hit on Iliad in case he happened to be town or third party. Spiesr said that is the most useful watch reveals scum. But both (and ga7's second) avoided real targets.

'But, what about Drench? Spiesr confirmed that Pmchugh visited him.' Fine, but why did he watch Drench instead of pmchugh? Drench had been rather scummy by skirting the accusation and proclaiming pmchugh was 'tunneling.' It seemed that the rest here backed off from lynching him to wait for proof of the complicated falseclaim rather than decreased suspicion. Even if it had been true, scum could only benefit in letting Drench waste our's attention with whether someone received his thingy. It would have made more sense to watch claimed players or pmchugh.

/, you say it is more worthwhile to examine the unclaimed, yet you found nothing. In that case, respond to my argument. Do spiesr's targets make sense, do ga7's? Isn't a potential falseclaim more threatening than another submariner?

First off FoS anyone trying to lynch an inactive, we should get them replaced in case they are a power role.

I advocated militant's lynch. Spiesr asked for him to be modkilled. Lynching icedagger will not get us anywhere if he is town and will only help scum again. There are probably three or four scum ; it is more likely than not that they have spoken. I offer a candidate.

[/]

Well, perhaps his actions do not make sense, however, it does make sense for there to be a watcher in the game, and other than his night actions, his day actions (play strategy) does not make make sense for scum, why would scum randomly out themselves by claiming against a (as far as they would have likely known) scummate? A watcher is also quite a common role, there would have been a good chance of counterclaim unless they somehow knew there was no town watcher.
I suppose a mafia watcher is a possible role. Judging by the amount of kills per night I must say however, multiple scum factions are quite unlikely.

[spiesr]

specifically why scum might visit him as opposed to me, spiesr, or Iliad, then I will back down.

Well, as for myself, I can't watch myself, I did actually think there was a good chance that the scum would kill me, but they didn't end up doing so last night. For Iliad as a said before I figured if the scum hadn't gone for him before then why would they do it then? Also SK are sometime immune to night kills and I thought that that somewhat decreased the likelihood that they would try to kill him. As for why not you? I suppose they could have visited you, but you didn't appear to be overly high on their hit list.

Yet, these patterns are not obtuse. I fail to see one in the four reports spiesr gave.

This seems true, there doesn't appear to be much of a pattern in that targets of myself and ga7. I wasn't really going by any pattern and I am not sure of ga7's reasonings.

'But, what about Drench? Spiesr confirmed that Pmchugh visited him.' Fine, but why did he watch Drench instead of pmchugh?

pmc had not claimed so he was not in a special position in my reasoning, I didn't know he was a cop or that the scum would kill him that night. I chose Drench because he had claimed that day. If he had been telling the truth it would have been confirmed the next day. I figured that if he was telling the truth the scum could try and get rid of him before he became a confirmed town power role sense they would have known he was telling the truth.

You also fail to explain why I should be lynched when my role is mentioned in the scene doing what I said I did. Unless someone can counter being the guy in the box viewing the action of night 3 I am practically confirmed. This is fairly good proof that I am not scum.

[Minister Masket]

Deadline = Thursday 11pm

[spiesr]

Already?! We still have crap for good leads!
/, I am almost tempted to vote for you to simply try and get some leads...

[/]

Ah well, I may be inclined to vote you for lack of tactful reasoning then.
After giving the matter further thought, I suppose a Mafia watcher is a decent possibility if looked at through the following reasoning.
Scumbuddy drench (mafia usurper) fakeclaims, he is to be investigated and will almost assuredly be lynched the following day, the cop (pmc) hasn't been found out yet by scum. In order to find out the identity of the cop (and possibly some other investigative roles) Spiesr (mafia watcher) is to watch drench, the most likely target of all investigative roles for the night.

When PMC turn out to be the dead cop, you have no possible loss of claiming town watcher, drench was obviously going to be lynched anyways, so it makes you look better to lead the whole thing, with the cop gone there is no way of proving you wrong either.

just speculation though.

[Minister Masket]

What do you mean "already"? Day 5's been going for about a week now, you've had plenty of time.

[spiesr]

Well /, that would be the only way for me to be scum that actually fits all the info.

We have to do something today, any good ideas?

[/]

I say we lynch an inactive, for several reasons.
1. scum will most likely go after an active player anyways, lowering our survival by that much each time
2. everyone has the same possibility of being scum
3. inactive probably are not sending in any potential actions and therefor are as good as vanilla townies even if power roles
4. and yet if they are scum they bring us that much closer to an endgame
5. their existence adds extra names to our total number making it that much harder to achieve a popper lynch
6. we really need a lynch
7. it's much easier to lynch an inactive than someone who's vote we need to achieve a proper lynch.

[Snorri1234]

Normally I would FOS you for suggesting to lynch inactives, but there are now quite a few inactives and dragging this game out even longer to replace them would make other people inactive.

I do think we should try to look for replacements first though, or at least give people the chance to come back. We still got two days.

[spiesr]

Fine, vote icedagger

[spiesr]

Although I must remind you that lynching off the inactives by day and killing the actives by night is a wining strategy for scum.

[/]

Although I must remind you that lynching off the inactives by day and killing the actives by night is a wining strategy for scum.

There are of course two alternatives to this, lynching actives by day with no evidence and making lynches impossible through sheer inactivity, or not lynching at all and giving scum no way to lose.

[Snorri1234]

Yeah that's what I figured too which is why I'm reluctant to lynch inactives. Though maybe it's a particular canny mafia-tactic where they all remain inactive so that all the active players start accusing eachother and lynching while they chuckle as they kill of us bickering bastards.

Inactive (Or at least have very few post and/or haven't made a comment in ages.)
1) Stroop
18) ace1217
6) icedagger
4) sheepofdumb



Active (present, at least in "has posted recently" form)
2) nagerous
8.) ga7 / spiersr
10) Natewolfman
12) Snorri1234
13) Skoffin
16) Nzen
19) /


I don't really know if this list is accurate since I'm too lazy to read back yet again. All in all I don't yet see a reason to just start lynching inactives yet. Maybe we should wait till it's almost deadline?

[Snorri1234]

Actually, reading back it seems that ace and sheepofdumb have at least talked a little and said something.

And Nate seems to have only posted "lol i read later".

[/]

Well, if we wait any more I doubt we will reach a lynch, as it stands we already need essentially every single active player to agree and vote within the next 48 hours.

[spiesr]

Yeah we might as well and try to lynch icedagger, but our attempt seems doomed to failure...

[Nzen]

I concede. I see I have convinced no one and probably will not with further elaboration. I apologize for wasting your time and thank you, spiesr, for not asking for my lynch in return.

Unvote spiesr

I am very reluctant to lynch an inactive player. At this point, any reduction to town's proportion is bad. We don't need a lynch inflexibly, we only need to lynch scum. I understand that anyone can be scum; but, we have less than even odds of choosing one randomly. If we are wrong, we lose two instead of one. Easier lynches are no good if all the scum are active and all the inactives are vanilla. The only plausible alternative is if Drench was truthful about a third party in addition to scum. Still, I don't think it is worth the risk.

Not that anyone probably cares anymore, I will clarify exactly what I believed:

Ga7 was a mafia goon or maybe even that ninja we keep seeing. He said some stuff and laughed every time town lynched one of their own (that is one of the facts I reserved). He deadbeated and spiesr replaced him. Scum realized that they would have to sacrifice Drench because he would not be able to prove he sent anyone a one-shot power. However, a deal is struck to bus him by having spiesr falseclaim as a watcher.

They/he created the story - whole cloth - about who both ga7 and he would have watched: iliad, /, and drench. I have already told you why I don't believe "ga7's" actions. With no more power roles (as morning revealed), the falseclaim couldn't be challenged except by a counterclaim or by scummy testimony.

There is also a town watcher or tracker who is not spiesr. I suspect that player has watched sensible targets each night. However, scum keep sending that ninja so he never gets a result. Spiesr claimed, but both the cop and our white mage are dead. Claiming may bring spiesr's lynch or his own (because this will be classic WiFoM). Night will certainly bring the ninja if he claimed.

As I said earlier, spiesr didn't watch iliad because he has no powers at all. Instead, he distracted us with another implausible 'target.' Also, I believe that skoffin isn't scum and legitimately a lynchee, though I really mean the target of a one-shot vigilante. Scum know that skoffin isn't one of their own, so spiesr asks skoffin to confirm animorph's claim. To everyone's surprise, skoffin theme-claims too. I strongly suspect that the lyncher is an inactive, else skoffin would be dead by now. As I said, otherwise skoffin would not know she is the target. (I guess if we include the lyncher as scum, it might be about even odds lynching an inactive for scum. Still, that only means trading the lyncher for the lynchee. Town is better off is if both survive.) The request on top of the third illogical watch target convinced me to sacrifice my own credibility.

I see I have convinced no one and will not bring this up again, no matter who spiesr says he watches.

[spiesr]

Well this day looks like it was a bust.

Would Nezn like to instruct me on how to properly use my powers tonight, or would that defeat the purpose?

[Nzen]

Frankly, it doesn't matter who you watch, spiesr. I suspect scum will off us lovers tonight because you pose no threat to their ninja. Even if I am right about the lyncher's power and you see him kill skoffin, fingering and lynching him the next day only puts us closer to a scum victory. The last unknown is drench's rumored third faction and what roles they have in play. I personally hope there is another, normal doctor. We began with four potential kills by the second morning (william & its bolt).