[Official] HP Mafia - MVP: Aage - Archive

[got tonkaed]

Does anything about making one post when everyone was trying to be fun and jokey, not posting for a week, FOS you after you were discussing things with people and then voting Mtam on the bandwagon suggest that he is just masterminding all of us?

It doesn't, you are just doing the obnoxious thing where you don't want Mtam to get lynched because you are bros. Don't do that, it's annoying. Mtam can defend themselves if they really want to, or you can actually put something out there that makes a case for the townie, who says they have a night action, wants to kill a 3rd party player and then provides no content for a week and isnt super townie on their arrival.

If he is third party and isn't useless in the night like you claim you are, he is a better lynch candidate. It is ok to lynch scum and third party, in fact, despite your actions to the otherwise, it is encouraged!

Talapus is right. Mtam has been in the forum a bunch and has had plenty of opportunity to post to their own defense. Not doing so, is worth noting.

[StorrZerg]

I'm not bro'ING it up. Attack my defense of him. Don't bring bullshit up to try and win an argument that has no place in this game.

I need to lynch a mafia to gain credit to stay alive. So absolutely I'm going to defend someone that I believe made a townie move.

And i absolutely believe hI'm threatening to kill me if I'm lieing about my role is a town play. Why the hell would a mafia make that statement, hint he Wouldn't. He would attack me back, not threaten a power which will be easy to prove.

talapus So right he pushing dd5 and not tamb yep.

[Ragian]

Vote: dd515087, I came into the forum multiple times over weekend to read up and see what people posted and on a few occasions saw him in here lurking and still has yet to post or move his vote. Mtam may claim real life is making it hard for him to play but obviously you made the time to swing by so you definitely get my attention for now.

And Matam, that wasn't an answer really at all, but I will give you another day or so to come back and try again before maybe voting your direction.

I read this differently from Got, I think. I thought the underlined bits referred to DD. If not, I don't understand the vote...

FP'ed by Stor

[aage]

"Hi you are Voldemort you are evil"

"Your fake claim is Harry potter"

Aside from game mechanic implications, that would be fairly hilarious.


Lynching mtam is the worst idea atm, it gives us barely any information aside from whether he lied or not. There is no case against him beside "he could be mafia" which goes for everyone. I'd love to FoS all the people who are voting him but I don't have enough fingers.

[degaston]

At some point you do have to narrow things down as Streaker posed a few pages back ago.

I originally thought that we were going to stop at 2 1/2 claims, but others said that we needed more. jbfloyd suggested that going after inactives could be done in the last 48 hours. You seem to think that it's too late for that. I don't know who to believe, so I'm going with my own reasoning (happy now, strikewolf?)

Right now, I believe Storr and Sempai (maybe I'm just naive about false claims), and since Mtam has claimed a night ability, I'd like to see what he says about it tomorrow. So yeah, I'm not really happy with any of the cases we have now, and I think an inactive is as good to go after as any, while there's still some time to sort things out on Thursday and Friday.

[aage]

At some point you do have to narrow things down as Streaker posed a few pages back ago.

I originally thought that we were going to stop at 2 1/2 claims, but others said that we needed more. jbfloyd suggested that going after inactives could be done in the last 48 hours. You seem to think that it's too late for that. I don't know who to believe, so I'm going with my own reasoning (happy now, strikewolf?)

Right now, I believe Storr and Sempai (maybe I'm just naive about false claims), and since Mtam has claimed a night ability, I'd like to see what he says about it tomorrow. So yeah, I'm not really happy with any of the cases we have now, and I think an inactive is as good to go after as any, while there's still some time to sort things out on Thursday and Friday.

There is no fixed amount of claims that we have to get on day one. I mislike how you try to set a universal standard for day one ongoings when you've (apparently) never played the game. Even though I can see that you're looking for guidance from the rest of the players, it's a scummy attitude.You're aiming to please other players in all of your posts, players who needn't even be town. I do like that you recognize the lack of value in the Mtam case, so you've got that going for you.

Current vote analysis:

StorrZerg - BGtheBrain, dazza
--> stupid votes, lynching storr doesn't give you anything.

mtamburini - sempai, sempai, virus, charm, skillful, madmitch, tonkaed (L-6)
--> I already said countless times mtam is a bad lynch, so all these people (with the possible exception of sempai) are suspect in my opinion. There are bound to be several mafia on this wagon atm.

Ragian - mtamburini, dd
--> mtam and dd are both not posting so I don't really know their motivation for voting ragian. He could be a good alternative to lynch at the end of this day.

sempai - Pixar
--> guess Pixar didn't check in since Sempai claimed?

charm - HotShot, Endgame, Ragian
--> interesting wagon that I need to look into more, I haven't perceived Charm as scummy but I haven't thoroughly read this case.

pershy - degaston
--> throwaway vote as I said earlier, it has no value and accomplishes nothing.


Gonna reread the last couple of pages for the cases on Charm and Ragian.

[got tonkaed]

So the way that I would look at all of it is this.

If the value of storr staying alive is that he helps us find scum...Mtam is the main other person who storr had a death eater read on today. Storr pushed for Sempai, and by in large it looks like that case was made of more or less nothing (though Streaker helped sell it).

I am of the opinion it is unlikely that we end up getting a lynch on an inactive, but to annoy strike even more I could be wrong. I'm not being stubborn because I don't have more to go off of than the posts in the thread for where my arguments come from, and if someone else reads the situation differently, I could be wrong (it's ok to assume you dont know everything all the time!).

Mtam has not really had a lot of content all game. I am ok with the idea that you can dismiss most of the content from pages 4-11 as jokey with Raigan and Storr if you really want to, but both of them kind of argue in those pages they dont joke. At this point, Mtam has said two characters will get lynched (Raigan having no argument to do so), and then under no pressure at all, claimed an ability to use a night action on storr to kill him.

It was noted that it could possibly be a recruit type role, which would potentially kill storr if he lied about his role and thus died in a recruit attempt. I am willing to believe based on set up that Mtam is either a third party with a night action (which in a game like this is not good for the town to leave lying around,) or that it is a potential cult leader who would be killing a false claiming scum. Either one of these are solid day 1 lynches.

I cant really tell why aage doesn't want to lynch Mtam or what his super town read on him is. At some point aage did note Mtam was his most townie read, but it never got developed further. Storr and I have disagreed all day about just about everything, so i am cool with the idea we arent going to start agreeing now! I just find that if i was to sum up storr, it is trying to create confusion and saying one thing and then contradicting it later.

If storr has to be around to catch scum, we are probably hosed.

FP by aage on his Mtam read, still does not say why it is a bad lynch. Could you please clarify why Mtam is so strongly town?

[aage]

FP by aage on his Mtam read, still does not say why it is a bad lynch. Could you please clarify why Mtam is so strongly town?

He soft claimed a killing role without incentive to do so. I think that's a town gambit. I don't think he has a killing role, but I'm way more interested in seeing where he is going with it than in lynching him to see what his actual role is. He is committing himself in this gambit which I think reads as town.

The value of keeping storr alive is that he is very likely third party, and lynching third party has 0% chance of lynching scum.

[aage]

He soft claimed a killing role without incentive to do so. I think that's a town gambit. I don't think he has a killing role, but I'm way more interested in seeing where he is going with it than in lynching him to see what his actual role is. He is committing himself in this gambit which I think reads as town.

Maybe this clarifies it more specifically: I don't think we need to lynch him right now to find out what his role is. His gambit will reveal his role sooner or later.

[got tonkaed]

At some point they probably all have to be dealt with though. 3rd party can beat town too.

I guess it depends on if you feel like 3rd party is hostile to town or not. In a game with recruitment, I'd be concerned that the real risk at some point to the town won't be just the scum, it will be the growing third party faction.

We can guess at whether or not a squib would be recruitable? I am inclined to think if Storr is recruitable and ends up being recruited it is a pretty uphill battle for town since he drives the game and is an active player. At what point will it ever be ok for us to lynch a third party survivor if not d1?

FP. I agree, but having said that, what if he gets busdriven?

[Talapus]

FP by aage on his Mtam read, still does not say why it is a bad lynch. Could you please clarify why Mtam is so strongly town?

He soft claimed a killing role without incentive to do so. I think that's a town gambit. I don't think he has a killing role, but I'm way more interested in seeing where he is going with it than in lynching him to see what his actual role is. He is committing himself in this gambit which I think reads as town.

The value of keeping storr alive is that he is very likely third party, and lynching third party has 0% chance of lynching scum.

Ok, I buy the reasoning, but why do you think Rag is a good alternative to lynch at end of day one? I got more of an ignornt mafia/new payer vibe out of their playstyle as compared to scum.

[Ragian]

Ignorant to the flavour, if I may correct you there, Talapus

[*Pixar*]

unvote

Havent been on much with mothers day weekend going on (enough to read 5 pages of this shit) Semp's claim is pretty legit so he is off my scum list as all of yours too. I don't really believe in lynching mtam for no apparent reason, he has already said he has IRL issues to deal with so give the guy a break. Pershy as well has RL issues. It's hard to sit down and read 5 pages a day and retain any of the information read. But as far as Day1 we have no leads to go off of, other than "oh mtam has been quiet he must be scum! Pixar has a scum read for not posting as well!" Well that's bullshit, most people have stuff to do as it gets nicer out.

Vote No Lynch

[aage]

I guess it depends on if you feel like 3rd party is hostile to town or not. In a game with recruitment, I'd be concerned that the real risk at some point to the town won't be just the scum, it will be the growing third party faction.

We can guess at whether or not a squib would be recruitable? I am inclined to think if Storr is recruitable and ends up being recruited it is a pretty uphill battle for town since he drives the game and is an active player. At what point will it ever be ok for us to lynch a third party survivor if not d1?

FP. I agree, but having said that, what if he gets busdriven?

You're basing your lynching choices on assumptions and bad diagnostics. If you choose to take out Storr because "the third party can be a threat later" due to the "recruiting mechanism", you're treating the symptoms and not the disease. Actually, you're treating the symptoms before they even start showing up. I'd be more than happy to see Storr recruited by a cult if there is one. Better him than a townie. On the busdriving, why do you think there's a busdriver and why do you think he'd go anywhere near Storr or Mtam tonight?

It will be okay for us to lynch the 3rd party survivor when he's detrimental to the town, or turns out not to be a 3rd party survivor. Right now, I'm fairly confident we can survive a few days before Storr stabs us in the back in favour of mafia. If he does it ahead of time, miscalculates that move or is proven to be lying, we can lynch him on the spot. There is nothing to be gained from lynching someone who you legitimately believe to be a 3rd party survivor.


Talap, the reason I listed Rag is because he was one of the people being voted. Of the people who are being voted, he is one of the cases that may actually have merit, but I don't know because as I said I have to look up the reasons they have for voting him.


Fastposted by Pixar, actually not surprised... -.-

[sempaispellcheck]

Sure, mtam has RL issues - we all have RL issues.
HOWEVER, on Friday (towards the end of page 21):

The part that is tough for me is Mtam is posting actively in the other game he is in.

To me, that doesn't say "he's too busy with RL to post here" - that says "I could post here, but I don't want to have to answer all the questions people are asking about me." That strikes me as incredibly scummy.

sempai

[got tonkaed]

I'm assuming busdriver due to the fact that on page 1 it is posted as a thing that is in the game.

I feel like Storr has more or less been the central figure of day 1. It was his flavor posting that got us started, his soft push on Mtam that started the case that sempai ended up claiming off of, and his defense of Mtam that is driving out most discussion now. If you are a busdriver and don't know who to act on or you think storr helps town, do you let him get vigged? Even worse, lets say you are a scum busdriver, you would almost certainly choose him.

I think it is the difference in two minds in regards to storr that dictates what you think we should do here. If Mtam is a town gambit, it all resolves itself and we figure it out on day 2, assuming nothing weird happens in the night.

I don't think this is as likely as you do, which is where our disagreement is coming from. With as many players in this game and as likely as i would think a third party faction is, im not assuming a soft claimed town gambit gets pulled off as easily as it would in a small game.

I'm not willing to say I don't believe Mtam could hop in here answer some of the other questions that have been asked by other players and change my mind. I believe if we were looking at a false claim (or even something that got said off hand and ran with farther than it was intended), its Mtam on the first few pages. So if thats not all honest, that is our best D1 lynch.

[jbfloyd]

vote pershy

If the only way to get inactives to participate is start ratcheting up pressure, then it had better start now. And to argument that this is a wasted vote, it's a vote for a new direction. To me, the only that could viably lead to a lynch right now are on charm (not on board that one) and mtam (debating it in my head the merits right now).

fp'd by GT

[*Pixar*]

well if mtam is actually being active in other mafia games than that is pretty sucky... maybe pressuring people will get them to be more active. Except don't pressure me! everyone else is fine

unvote vote Mtam

[Epitaph1]

VOTE COUNT

StorrZerg - BGtheBrain, dazza
mtamburini - sempai, sempai, virus, charm, skillful, madmitch, tonkaed, Pixar (L-5)
Ragian - mtamburini, dd
sempai - Pixar
charm - HotShot, Endgame, Ragian
pershy - degaston, floyd
dd- Talapus

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline Friday, noon Eastern Time.

[Talapus]

Ignorant to the flavour, if I may correct you there, Talapus

No offense Rag, you are correct it is what I meant. But you stated it early on and I looked over what others had against you and all I could really find was that.....sad really.

FYI, voting a no lynch at this stage in the game won't really get us anywhere. Just read through and saw that and there is no way that is going to happen.

[degaston]

I mislike how you try to set a universal standard for day one ongoings when you've (apparently) never played the game.

Have you really not read a single thing I've posted?

Anyway, in my experience*
*1 game

This is only my second game...

... but even after 1 game, I know ... In my last game ...

...in my first game...

... In my only other game...

I was 1 shot bulletproof in my other game...

...based on what I was told in the only other game I've played...

Just to make it clear, (assuming you're not just skimming this post, too) I've played 1 (one) game, and that and mafiascum.net are pretty much all I have to base my play off of. In my first game, I was told that we shouldn't try to get too many claims on D1, and that early/unforced claims and silence were both scummy, so that's what I've been focusing on.

You're aiming to please other players in all of your posts, players who needn't even be town.

Who have I been trying to please? My most serious recent vote was for Sempai, and I gave my reasons, but I was accused of bandwagoning. I voted for Pershy originally because he had contributed so little, and then when I actually looked at his contributions, they were nothing but "me too's", so I think it's legitimate to put some pressure on him to talk a little more. If he's too busy, maybe the mod should replace him.

Meanwhile, I notice that you're a real trailblazer - willing to boldly go wherever your intricate reasoning takes you, no matter what the consequenses...

Vote Storr for no apparent reason.

Alright, I'm willing to go on board with the Sempai case.... For now I'll vote Sempai to see what he has to say in defense.

Unvote

Which one of us is just trying to please people?

[*Pixar*]

VOTE COUNT

StorrZerg - BGtheBrain, dazza
mtamburini - sempai, sempai, virus, charm, skillful, madmitch, tonkaed, Pixar (L-5)
Ragian - mtamburini, dd
sempai - Pixar
charm - HotShot, Endgame, Ragian
pershy - degaston, floyd
dd- Talapus

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline Friday, noon Eastern Time.

no vote on sempy

[charm]

@Zerg-ee - Give me a break! There isn't anything I can say that you don't challenge. When am I ever going to get a "way to go girl!" I thought I'd finally put together some good reasons why we need to pressure MTam.

I don't think we should lynch MTam unless he comes back with doing something very scummy. But, I have a hard time believing he is town when he throws up that he some special power. Wouldn't that make him a natural target for the mafia to lynch him at night?
Therefore, if he is scum then he obviously wouldn't be lynched at night. Hence, best to apply pressure and get as much info out of MTam so the town can make an intelligent decision on what to do about him.

I'm keeping my vote on MTam until he proves he is Town or Town alligned. And I'm not removing it just because Zerg-ee backs him up.

We are now over a week on Day 1 - just thought I'd point that out in case we go a month.

[Epitaph1]

VOTE COUNT

StorrZerg - BGtheBrain, dazza
mtamburini - sempai, sempai, virus, charm, skillful, madmitch, tonkaed, Pixar (L-5)
Ragian - mtamburini, dd
charm - HotShot, Endgame, Ragian
pershy - degaston, floyd
dd- Talapus

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline Friday, noon Eastern Time.

[BGtheBrain]

*****