Conquer Club

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

Thats not separation of church and state. The state is not to "establish a religion" allowing ALL faiths to be practiced. But had they intended for plaques of the 10 commandments on courtroom walls be banned, they'd of enforced that long ago. The founding fathers didn't have a problem with it as they were God fearing men. Go ahead and put Koran quotes on courtroom walls....I won't be offended.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

Thats not separation of church and state. The state is not to "establish a religion" allowing ALL faiths to be practiced. But had they intended for plaques of the 10 commandments on courtroom walls be banned, they'd of enforced that long ago. The founding fathers didn't have a problem with it as they were God fearing men. Go ahead and put Koran quotes on courtroom walls....I won't be offended.

The problem is that people are offended by this, and yes maybe I did go overboard but to have religious text or symbols on a courtroom wall or any other government building gives the impression that we're biased towards that religion.

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

Thats not separation of church and state. The state is not to "establish a religion" allowing ALL faiths to be practiced. But had they intended for plaques of the 10 commandments on courtroom walls be banned, they'd of enforced that long ago. The founding fathers didn't have a problem with it as they were God fearing men. Go ahead and put Koran quotes on courtroom walls....I won't be offended.

The problem is that people are offended by this, and yes maybe I did go overboard but to have religious text or symbols on a courtroom wall or any other government building gives the impression that we're biased towards that religion.

The question is WHY are people offended. Example: Prayer in school....If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to. HOW does that effect the atheist? The atheist kid can sit there silently and think about his first period math exam for all I care. BUT his NON-belief should not trump everbody else's right to pray.


Buy the way... prayer in school is not banned, the school just can not lead it. But you know that every time there is a Bible study BEFORE classes start, an atheist will get offended an try to put a stop to it. If you are an atheist it SHOULDN'T bother you. Why does it effect them so much??? Its not so much that they don't believe they want to make it so your freedom is as limited as possible.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

Thats not separation of church and state. The state is not to "establish a religion" allowing ALL faiths to be practiced. But had they intended for plaques of the 10 commandments on courtroom walls be banned, they'd of enforced that long ago. The founding fathers didn't have a problem with it as they were God fearing men. Go ahead and put Koran quotes on courtroom walls....I won't be offended.

The problem is that people are offended by this, and yes maybe I did go overboard but to have religious text or symbols on a courtroom wall or any other government building gives the impression that we're biased towards that religion.

The question is WHY are people offended. Example: Prayer in school....If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to. HOW does that effect the atheist? The atheist kid can sit there silently and think about his first period math exam for all I care. BUT his NON-belief should not trump everbody else's right to pray.


Buy the way... prayer in school is not banned, the school just can not lead it. But you know that every time there is a Bible study BEFORE classes start, an atheist will get offended an try to put a stop to it. If you are an atheist it SHOULDN'T bother you. Why does it effect them so much??? Its not so much that they don't believe they want to make it so your freedom is as limited as possible.

OK first of all I don't know what lead you to prayer in school when I never mentioned that. Second there are more than just athiests and muslims complaining. Try to include all of the groups in your thought patterns before stating anything.

Did you even read this???



jay_a2j quote: If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to.




Hmmmm looks like I DID include other religions.

jay_a2j wrote:Did you even read this???



jay_a2j quote: If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to.




Hmmmm looks like I DID include other religions.

I meant specifically, think of why each culture would have their own reasons to be against this. It may sound stupid but it really does make a difference in the opinion that comes out.

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Did you even read this???



jay_a2j quote: If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to.




Hmmmm looks like I DID include other religions.

I meant specifically, think of why each culture would have their own reasons to be against this. It may sound stupid but it really does make a difference in the opinion that comes out.

If you say so.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.

Separation of Church and State was established to protect the Church FROM the State not the other way around. It was established to keep the state out of church affairs. But so many times it is interpreted as NO RELIGION IN PUBLIC PLACES. And thats just not true.

seperation of Church and state was created to make sure that people of all religions could worship freely, and not feel overwhelmed by the religious majority. The only place where religious symbols really belong in this country are on school's for specific religions, churches, sentagogs, mosques, etc. and on people who worship that religion. Other than that, its an oximoron to the values that US laws have put in place. Second, Jesus preaches that you should love thy neighbor, right? Well another religion is just as much a neighbor to Christianity as a your actual neighbor is to you, and thus deserves that respect.

Thats not separation of church and state. The state is not to "establish a religion" allowing ALL faiths to be practiced. But had they intended for plaques of the 10 commandments on courtroom walls be banned, they'd of enforced that long ago. The founding fathers didn't have a problem with it as they were God fearing men. Go ahead and put Koran quotes on courtroom walls....I won't be offended.

The problem is that people are offended by this, and yes maybe I did go overboard but to have religious text or symbols on a courtroom wall or any other government building gives the impression that we're biased towards that religion.

The question is WHY are people offended. Example: Prayer in school....If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to. HOW does that effect the atheist? The atheist kid can sit there silently and think about his first period math exam for all I care. BUT his NON-belief should not trump everbody else's right to pray.


Buy the way... prayer in school is not banned, the school just can not lead it. But you know that every time there is a Bible study BEFORE classes start, an atheist will get offended an try to put a stop to it. If you are an atheist it SHOULDN'T bother you. Why does it effect them so much??? Its not so much that they don't believe they want to make it so your freedom is as limited as possible.

If it's a non-christian and public school, they shouldn't have to explain. If it's really such a big deal, sign up for a private religious school. otherwise, no dice

The give me MY tax money to go to that "private school".

jay_a2j wrote:Did you even read this???



jay_a2j quote: If they have a "moment of silence" like when I was a kid.... If you were christian you could pray to God, Mulsims to Allah and whatever God a child wanted to pray to.




Hmmmm looks like I DID include other religions.

What do the 10 commandments have to do with anyone other than christians and jews? The seperation of church and state in the US was to protect people of various faiths, i.e. the govt cannot favour one faith over another. Making christianity a part of every school goes completely against that. It is just evangelism in disguise.

Believe what you want and let others do the same.

jay_a2j wrote:The give me MY tax money to go to that "private school".

Nah. If you believe in those principle so much, put your money where your mouth is

Pilate wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The give me MY tax money to go to that "private school".

Nah. If you believe in those principle so much, put your money where your mouth is

Soon as the gov. gives it to me (its mine) I will.


Stop tring to make the moral people in this world immoral. People complain of having religion "shoved down their throat" but its ok to "shove the lack of morals" down mine.

Again, how is posting the ten commandments in schools 'including other religions'?

And 'morality' is a point of view. You probably think pot smoking is immoral, but if you;re a hindu or a rastafarian, it's an almost sacred experience. This is the most dangerous thing about church influence on politics.

heavycola wrote:Again, how is posting the ten commandments in schools 'including other religions'?

And 'morality' is a point of view. You probably think pot smoking is immoral, but if you;re a hindu or a rastafarian, it's an almost sacred experience. This is the most dangerous thing about church influence on politics.

As I said before, go ahead and put up quotes from the Koran or any other faith. Include all faiths, don't exclude all faiths (because its christianity that takes the brunt of it)

jay_a2j wrote:

Pilate wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The give me MY tax money to go to that "private school".

Nah. If you believe in those principle so much, put your money where your mouth is

Soon as the gov. gives it to me (its mine) I will.


Stop tring to make the moral people in this world immoral. People complain of having religion "shoved down their throat" but its ok to "shove the lack of morals" down mine.

Your argument is flawed. If a person doesn't want public prayers (or something to that effect) in a non-religious public school, she should have every right not to have them. They don't need to justify their reasons plain and simple. If you really believe it is so important, then go to a private religious school. Calling this an issue of morality is inappropriate. Not only that, it's just plain wrong.

heavycola wrote:What do the 10 commandments have to do with anyone other than christians and jews? The seperation of church and state in the US was to protect people of various faiths, i.e. the govt cannot favour one faith over another. Making christianity a part of every school goes completely against that. It is just evangelism in disguise.

Good point. This is just another example of a group of people, christians in this case, trying to extend their power and influence.

Include all faiths, don't exclude all faiths

Jainism? Hinduism? Islam? Rastafarianism? Sikhism? Satanism? Azande witchcraft? Paganism? Uh-uh.

You think every US parent is going to be happy with muslim prayers up on their kids' school walls?

We HAVE to exclude faith from public schools. It has nothing to do with secular education. And every athiest I know is a good, moral person, so that argument doesn't wash with me either.

heavycola wrote:

Include all faiths, don't exclude all faiths

Jainism? Hinduism? Islam? Rastafarianism? Sikhism? Satanism? Azande witchcraft? Paganism? Uh-uh.

You think every US parent is going to be happy with muslim prayers up on their kids' school walls?

We HAVE to exclude faith from public schools. It has nothing to do with secular education. And every athiest I know is a good, moral person, so that argument doesn't wash with me either.

Here are some examples of what is taught in public schools (which by the way could and does offend people of many different faiths)


Evolution

Sex Education

Tolerance (same sex couples, marriage and lifestyle)

Now if public schools would stop teaching these I wouldn't mind public schools (oh and the lack of high standards).


How can a public school talk about, condone, say "its ok" to things like same sex couples knowing that many religions teach that it is not ok?
So to arrive at a happy medium public schools should eleminate these topics from there curriculum. Either that or allow Creationism, Abstanance, and morality to be taught.

Logic dictates that you should let this thread die. There I said it.

strike wolf wrote:Logic dictates that you should let this thread die. There I said it.

Sorry that I like to talk about and debate "real issues" instead of "99 bottles of beer on the wall", "300th off-topic topic" and "Who likes porn" threads.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:Logic dictates that you should let this thread die. There I said it.

Sorry that I like to talk about and debate "real issues" instead of "99 bottles of beer on the wall", "300th off-topic topic" and "Who likes porn" threads.

Actually I don't think I've ever posted in any of those three.

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:Logic dictates that you should let this thread die. There I said it.

Sorry that I like to talk about and debate "real issues" instead of "99 bottles of beer on the wall", "300th off-topic topic" and "Who likes porn" threads.

thats any porn fans here thread and besides in the forums(especially off topic topics) you dont need to talk about real issues you can but you dont have to im here to have fun and play risk not to stir every one on the site up with political and religious threads.

Utafar wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

strike wolf wrote:Logic dictates that you should let this thread die. There I said it.

Sorry that I like to talk about and debate "real issues" instead of "99 bottles of beer on the wall", "300th off-topic topic" and "Who likes porn" threads.

thats any porn fans here thread and besides in the forums(especially off topic topics) you dont need to talk about real issues you can but you dont have to im here to have fun and play risk not to stir every one on the site up with political and religious threads.

I'm not saying that those threads should not be here. I am saying (to those who want to shut down this thread). That I like to talk about things "other than" those kind of threads.