[Abandoned] - Exodus

[TaCktiX]

Okay, so we've got a big case of Thematic Schizophrenia. You are simultaneously doing the Book of Exodus, and the entire 40 year wandering. What results is a map divided against itself, and it's causing you a lot of problems. Here's what I see needs to be done to fix that, and make it a better map (Note that I am going with Book of Exodus, the better half of your present map as far as themes go):

- All the territories from Rissah-Etham-Taberah-Snakes up are not required. Toss and change the map to focus to the south.
- Consider moving the legend to the top right (to the space those unnecessary territories were).
- Screw geographical accuracy. We're telling the story of the Exodus, not the Systematic Geography of the Egypt-Sinai Region Circa 1447 BC. So instead of all the pyramids, let's put plagues. You're already halfway there with the Pillars, the Ten Commandments, and the Golden Calf all by itself.
- Since we're covering all of Exodus, add in the Tabernacle as a territory (general vicinity of Mt. Sinai, as Israel didn't leave said location until after the Book of Exodus concludes).
- Revamp the bonus structure to have 3-4 major regions: The Plagues, the Red Sea, Sinai come to mind offhand.
- Beef up the territory count by drawing on other key events of the book.

Unrelated, but still a good note:
- DITCH THE -1 ON PLAGUES. Horrible gameplay idea, though I know where the idea came from.

[isaiah40]

Okay, so we've got a big case of Thematic Schizophrenia. You are simultaneously doing the Book of Exodus, and the entire 40 year wandering. What results is a map divided against itself, and it's causing you a lot of problems. Here's what I see needs to be done to fix that, and make it a better map (Note that I am going with Book of Exodus, the better half of your present map as far as themes go):

- All the territories from Rissah-Etham-Taberah-Snakes up are not required. Toss and change the map to focus to the south.
- Consider moving the legend to the top right (to the space those unnecessary territories were).
- Screw geographical accuracy. We're telling the story of the Exodus, not the Systematic Geography of the Egypt-Sinai Region Circa 1447 BC. So instead of all the pyramids, let's put plagues. You're already halfway there with the Pillars, the Ten Commandments, and the Golden Calf all by itself.
- Since we're covering all of Exodus, add in the Tabernacle as a territory (general vicinity of Mt. Sinai, as Israel didn't leave said location until after the Book of Exodus concludes).
- Revamp the bonus structure to have 3-4 major regions: The Plagues, the Red Sea, Sinai come to mind offhand.
- Beef up the territory count by drawing on other key events of the book.

Unrelated, but still a good note:
- DITCH THE -1 ON PLAGUES. Horrible gameplay idea, though I know where the idea came from.

Thank you for your comments. That would mean redrawing a lot of the map, but I am willing to do it (just need to reread Exodus again). I was going for the theme of when Israel left Egypt to the crossing of the Jordan River, so maybe I would need to come up with a new title for the map.

I don't know how much of the thread you've read, but my plan is to have this be the first in a series of maps. The exodus, The Conquest, United Kingdom (under David and Solomon) and the Divided Kingdom with the possibility of The Captivity and The Return.

As always I will take a look at what you have commented on and see how I can fit it in with my larger plan.

[Industrial Helix]

Perhaps it would be better to make the map revolve around the lifetime of Moses. That seems more like a better thematic boundary setting. In which case, remove the stuff in modern day israel and you should be on a better track. For me, I think, the plagues and 40 years wandering go hand in hand, but that's probably because I'm seeing the map more as a lifetime of Moses map.

[soundman]

Come up with anything yet?

[grifftron]

Isaiah whats going on man? haven't seen this map in a while, busy life on my side.

Hope your still going to continue with something like this

-griff

[isaiah40]

Isaiah whats going on man? haven't seen this map in a while, busy life on my side.

Hope your still going to continue with something like this

-griff

Yes life's been quite busy here as well, with job hunting and such. I do plan on getting an update here in the next couple of days.

[isaiah40]

Okay so it's been awhile since my last update. So here is my new update!

A few minor changes to include:
- New attack route from Beersheba to Succoth
- New attack route from Haradah to Makheloth
- Removed attack route from Lachish to Hebron
- Rearranged starting positions so that they are more widely separated
- Map renamed from Exodus, to Israel - Slavery to Promised Land

Concerning the Pillar of Fire and Pillar of Cloud. I was thinking of having them bombard the whole map or just the cities, but decided that because of where they are, they would be too strong. So I decided to have them start as a killer neutral which resets to 10 at the start of your next turn. Also Raamses will start as 5 neutral along with Mount Sinai, Ten Commandments, Golden Calf and Ark of the Covenant. Everything else will start as the customary 3 neutrals.

As this is a map of Israel's Journey through the desert from when they left Egypt to just before they crossed the Jordan River, I am going to keep this the way it is to include the cities in Canaan as they help with the flow of getting around the map a little more.

I think this is it for now, so hopefully we can get this into the Gameplay thread soon!

Click image to enlarge.

[Industrial Helix]

That's about what we were waiting for... lets get this map moving on!

[isaiah40]

That's about what we were waiting for... lets get this map moving on!

Thank you!!

Now for more in depth discussion of game play!!

[natty dread]

Congrats on the draft stamp design brief approval!

[mibi]

this feels like Ardennes on papyrus.

[grifftron]

gp looks fine to me for the most part, i am not at all a pro gp critic.. but in the bottom right hand corner, it still seems to me that +3 bonus will be too easy to hold for someone who gets it, and it would be a big advantage for holding it... only 2 ways to break them, 1 being the snake that you get minus troops for holding. Can there be something else on the map that if you hold that + the snake you can get + troops instead of minus? can't think of something that would make it seem right for it to be plus tho... i would like to see more bonus opportunities.

-griff

[isaiah40]

gp looks fine to me for the most part, i am not at all a pro gp critic.. but in the bottom right hand corner, it still seems to me that +3 bonus will be too easy to hold for someone who gets it, and it would be a big advantage for holding it... only 2 ways to break them, 1 being the snake that you get minus troops for holding. Can there be something else on the map that if you hold that + the snake you can get + troops instead of minus? can't think of something that would make it seem right for it to be plus tho... i would like to see more bonus opportunities.

-griff

I could add in a 2 way attack route between Golden Calf and Elim. That would be 3 territories to defend from an attack.

[WestWind]

I'm not really great with my Bible knowledge, but would it make sense if the Snakes could bombard the Canaan cities? Kind of like a symbol of how evil is bad and stuff, but it can work its way into a civilization? I think that could fit the theme of the map, but I'm no expert.

[isaiah40]

I'm not really great with my Bible knowledge, but would it make sense if the Snakes could bombard the Canaan cities? Kind of like a symbol of how evil is bad and stuff, but it can work its way into a civilization? I think that could fit the theme of the map, but I'm no expert.

Yes it could work, at the same time the snakes are from when the Israelites' rebelled against God ans so God sent the snakes to punish them.

At the same time I would not be adverse to doing it. If anyone else thinks that this would be a good idea please let me know!!

[Rih0]

Ther was also a flaming bush. It was used to call moses. It was on fire but not realy burning

[isaiah40]

Ther was also a flaming bush. It was used to call moses. It was on fire but not realy burning

Ah yes that one slipped my mind I'll see if I can make room for it.

[MrBenn]

Ther was also a flaming bush. It was used to call moses. It was on fire but not realy burning

Ah yes that one slipped my mind I'll see if I can make room for it.

That wasn't really part of the Exodus though....

I still don't think the subject matter translates well into a CC map.

[isaiah40]

I still don't think the subject matter translates well into a CC map.

Any ideas on how we can translate it into a CC map? I feel that this fills a niche on CC that as far as I can tell no one has attempted before.

[The Bison King]

In most depiction I have seen of the path of exodus, Moses crossed the red sea Immediately after leaving Egypt to gain access to the Sinai peninsula, and not after the peninsula to gain access to present day Saudi Arabia like you have it. On you're map I think the correct placement would be between Memphis and the pillar of cloud.

[isaiah40]

In most depiction I have seen of the path of exodus, Moses crossed the red sea Immediately after leaving Egypt to gain access to the Sinai peninsula, and not after the peninsula to gain access to present day Saudi Arabia like you have it. On you're map I think the correct placement would be between Memphis and the pillar of cloud.

Actually, the only place possible is about where I put it. They have found chariot wheels and such there, plus Pharaoh said (my paraphrase) "They have become entangled in the wilderness, caught between the mountains and the sea". There is only one place that could have happened. Also the were two monuments erected by Solomon on each side of the crossing (my approximate location) commemorating the crossing. One is in Egypt, and the other is in present day Saudi (actually the Saudis removed it and placed a marker there.

They have also found what looks like to be an altar around the location of Mt. Sinai (also in Saudi Arabia, Paul even says that Sinai is in Arabia not Egypt) with Egyptian Hieroglyphics.

Ron Wyatt is the one who discovered all this.

So based on my research, Israel's Journey won't change.

[Industrial Helix]

In most depiction I have seen of the path of exodus, Moses crossed the red sea Immediately after leaving Egypt to gain access to the Sinai peninsula, and not after the peninsula to gain access to present day Saudi Arabia like you have it. On you're map I think the correct placement would be between Memphis and the pillar of cloud.

Actually, the only place possible is about where I put it. They have found chariot wheels and such there, plus Pharaoh said (my paraphrase) "They have become entangled in the wilderness, caught between the mountains and the sea". There is only one place that could have happened. Also the were two monuments erected by Solomon on each side of the crossing (my approximate location) commemorating the crossing. One is in Egypt, and the other is in present day Saudi (actually the Saudis removed it and placed a marker there.

They have also found what looks like to be an altar around the location of Mt. Sinai (also in Saudi Arabia, Paul even says that Sinai is in Arabia not Egypt) with Egyptian Hieroglyphics.

Ron Wyatt is the one who discovered all this.

So based on my research, Israel's Journey won't change.

Did not know that... interesting.

And I think MrBenn was referring to the burning bush as not translating well... maybe. Don't quote me on that. I think the story could translate well into a CC map, but its going to be more difficult than the usual map.

[MarshalNey]

While I like the graphical style you're going for, I'm not convinced that the theme is going to transpose very well into a CC game board.

You should think hard about how the travel-route will influence the gameplay, and how to ensure that it fits the theme... Dustbowl and Oasis are two very good examples of different maps that have evolved from conceptual deserts. I myself have occasionally looked at the route of the Exodus, or Paul's Journeys - but have never been convinced that they will translate into exciting gameplay

Unfortunately, IH, I think Mr. Benn is referring to the whole thing, by use of the word 'still'- as in "still doesn't think that the subject matter translates well."

Personally, I think the map is a bit rough but the uniqueness of the theme is worth sticking with it. Plus, there's an impressive amount of progress that's been made since this map first came out.

[Industrial Helix]

Well the most confusing thing about this map is the Israel one way attacks. It looks like the Afghanistan powerpoint that the DoD produces with arrows going every which way. The one way attacks are going to need BOB to be able to see as a whole and make it easily understandable.

I also question the necessity of having the pillars on map, rather than off map features.

[jsholty4690]

Did you ever think of putting the Jordan river up at the top of the map? It probably end up being decorative, but if I remember correctly there was a significant story about Joshua leading the Israelites across the Jordan into the promise land by crossing the river.