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Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:39 pm
by Woodruff
Aradhus wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Aradhus wrote:
You are catholic, or you were catholic?
Both.
Why? I get why simpletons like Jay and his ilk are, but with you it doesn't quite fit.(with what I know of you from your posts) I have a feeling you're a catholic for completely different reasons than someone like Jay is. With you it has little to do with faith.
You seem to be implying that someone who is intelligent, thoughtful and reasoned cannot possibly be a religious person of faith...why would you believe that to be the case?
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:09 pm
by PLAYER57832
jay_a2j wrote:
It wasn't even a matter of "annoying customers" he had permission from the hearers to SPEAK. It is a case of the mall employee's who DID NOT WANT HIM SPEAKING.
Other people have taken up the bigger legalities (in short, the mall and customer's rights overshadow this guy's rights, particularly given that he was
not actually prohibited, just told to stay in a particular area)
So I will stick to this one.
How this guy will explain it:
God is calling me to go out and talk to people in this mall. I asked and GOT PERMISSION to talk to these two ladies and this clerk steps in and says I am causing trouble and has me ousted! If only I had been able to continue my conversation, I would have brought the glory of Christ to those women and maybe, in time (these things don't happen overnight) they would become true believers. The clerk is obviously anti-Christian (let's all pray for her). Thank the lord a kind legal team has taken up my cause!
How the rest of the world sees it:
We were shopping. This guy comes up and asks us if we can talk religion with him. He was rather agressive. We did not want to cause a scene, so we just said "OK" (hopefully he will go away soon -- I mean, really, does this guy truly think we have not "heard the message of Christ" before? I go to church at least twice a month!). Anyway, the clerk intervened. I kind of feel sorry for the guy.
AND Jay, I have had this happen to me, have talked to pleny on BOTH sides of this equation and am not simply "imagining" these scenarios. The BIGGEST problem is that this is the absolute LEAST effective way to communicate Christ to people. Truly and really communicationg Christ to people is not about passing out brochures or asking strangers "Are you saved?" , "Do you accept Jesus as your lord and savior?" REAL Christianity is about helping people. It is about being open to discussion. It is about being aware of people around you and their needs. At times, people WILL ask and WILL, becuase GOD directs them, talk. In a very few cases, it can be appropriate to say something -- mostly when you see somebody in pain, hurting. BUT, then you listen first and talk second. It is not about accosting strangers in malls, it is about building long-term friendships with people that may never result in ANY conversation about Christ. Or, maybe it will -- and the friendship is not about "converting", it is about you being who YOU are and letting that speak for itself. If you go into a "friendship" or ANY relationship strictly with the idea of "Bringing them to Christ", you are placing yourself above them. You are more concerned with fulfilling your desire to speak and be seen as a Christian than you are about really and truly communicating or meeting the real needs of the neighbor/friend.
Christ told us to "pray in private", not on street corners. Christ told us to seek out those who believe and support them, work with them .. not to barge in to places where we are not wanted.
jay_a2j wrote:
If he had been bashing Obama he probably would have been asked to leave also. However if he had been bashing W. Bush they probably would have joined in in the bashing. You have to remember that CA is soooooo liberal that even Army recruiters are banned in some places! So, their "ban on religious and political" talk only applies if it is AGAINST what they believe. Speech should never be controlled like that and the fact that there are people (look around this thread) who believe speech should be restricted speaks volumes at the direction that this country is headed.
HOW DARE you assert that Obama or anyone else is ANTI CHRISTIAN! YOU Take the lord's name in vain when you commit such basphemy. SHAME ON YOU! AND I SAY THAT IN CHRIST'S NAME! You had best re-read the part about removing the log from your eye or perhaps the part about casting stones before you dare condem or assert anyone else is non Christian simply becuase they don't agree with YOUR POLITICAL views!
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:16 pm
by natty dread
Player, I sincerely wish all christians were more like you.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:22 pm
by thegreekdog
natty_dread wrote:Player, I sincerely wish all christians were more like you.
Many Christians are. They tend not to post comments on fora. With all due respect to the other versions of Christianity, I've found that Catholics are a good example of reasonableness (at least Catholics in the US).
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:31 pm
by PLAYER57832
thegreekdog wrote:natty_dread wrote:Player, I sincerely wish all christians were more like you.
Many Christians are. They tend not to post comments on fora. With all due respect to the other versions of Christianity, I've found that Catholics are a good example of reasonableness (at least Catholics in the US).
I am not Roman Catholic, but in this regard (talking to others) Modern Roman Catholics and Protestants tend to agree. (all branches include some sordid past and a few modern abberrations).
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:46 pm
by pimpdave
jay_a2j wrote:
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:25 pm
by THORNHEART
HOW DARE you assert that Obama or anyone else is ANTI CHRISTIAN! YOU Take the lord's name in vain when you commit such basphemy. SHAME ON YOU! AND I SAY THAT IN CHRIST'S NAME! You had best re-read the part about removing the log from your eye or perhaps the part about casting stones before you dare condem or assert anyone else is non Christian simply becuase they don't agree with YOUR POLITICAL views![/quote]
lol...from watch i know you are called a christian by your actions....i dont recall jesus ever being hateful...but i am pretty sure obama went to a hate spewing church for awhile...anyways thats why people say he isnt christian...also the unconfirmed rumors to him being muslim?
I find you shame inthe name of christ comment pretty pathetic...would THAT be taking christs name in vain you fool
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:30 pm
by sully800
THORNHEART wrote:I don't know what taking the Lord's name in vain means
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:38 pm
by Aradhus
Woodruff wrote:Aradhus wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Aradhus wrote:
You are catholic, or you were catholic?
Both.
Why? I get why simpletons like Jay and his ilk are, but with you it doesn't quite fit.(with what I know of you from your posts) I have a feeling you're a catholic for completely different reasons than someone like Jay is. With you it has little to do with faith.
You seem to be implying that someone who is intelligent, thoughtful and reasoned cannot possibly be a religious person of faith...why would you believe that to be the case?
You're assuming an awful lot there buddy, but if your assumptions were correct, the answer would be experience.
And TGD, you told me like a page or 2 back that you're catholic.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:51 pm
by thegreekdog
Aradhus, I am Catholic. I was Catholic and continue to be Catholic. I go to mass regularly. I'm not sure what your question is or was.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:17 pm
by john9blue
The unspoken assumption is that you have to be dumb to believe in God. Now in the spirit of science, when confronted with a counterexample (TGD) he would have to be openminded enough to modify his theory... if he was a true freethinker, that is.
Let's see what happens...
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:20 pm
by THORNHEART
@ that furry blue animal..."sully?"
taking the lords name in vain is using it in any sense that does not bring glory to it.
I doubt shaming someone for different political opinions in the lords name is conducive to glorifying the Lord God.
noob
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:28 pm
by jay_a2j
PLAYER57832 wrote:
REAL Christianity is about helping people. It is about being open to discussion. It is about being aware of people around you and their needs.
No, it's about a relationship with the living God. Your works (helping people) are as filthy rags in the sight of God. But I suppose many people fall into the lie that they can somehow EARN salvation.
PLAYER57832 wrote: HOW DARE you assert that Obama or anyone else is ANTI CHRISTIAN! YOU Take the lord's name in vain when you commit such basphemy. SHAME ON YOU! AND I SAY THAT IN CHRIST'S NAME! You had best re-read the part about removing the log from your eye or perhaps the part about casting stones before you dare condem or assert anyone else is non Christian simply becuase they don't agree with YOUR POLITICAL views!
I have "asserted" nothing. So get the plank out of your own eye. Maybe if YOU re-read the post s l o w l y you will be able to see not only that your accusation is absurd but also the hypocrisy of your own words.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:28 pm
by john9blue
THORNHEART wrote:I doubt shaming someone for different political opinions in the lords name is conducive to glorifying the Lord God.
Player wasn't doing that, she was shaming jay for doing it, although I think she overreacted.
Also can this not turn in to a holier than thou contest?
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:34 pm
by jay_a2j
john9blue wrote:THORNHEART wrote:I doubt shaming someone for different political opinions in the lords name is conducive to glorifying the Lord God.
Player wasn't doing that, she was shaming jay for doing it, although I think she overreacted.
Also can this not turn in to a holier than thou contest?
Except I "wasn't doing it". How she got that I was saying "Obama is anti-Christian" is beyond me.
And in a "holier than thou contest" PLAYER wins hands down. She has always come across that way since she started posting here at CC.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:49 pm
by Woodruff
jay_a2j wrote:john9blue wrote:THORNHEART wrote:I doubt shaming someone for different political opinions in the lords name is conducive to glorifying the Lord God.
Player wasn't doing that, she was shaming jay for doing it, although I think she overreacted.
Also can this not turn in to a holier than thou contest?
Except I "wasn't doing it". How she got that I was saying "Obama is anti-Christian" is beyond me.
And in a "holier than thou contest" PLAYER wins hands down. She has always come across that way since she started posting here at CC.
Jay, the only reason you don't come across as more holier-than-anyone-else is because we're all well aware what a hypocritical fool you are. That pretty much successfully counters any possible thoughts of your being holy at all.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:49 pm
by Woodruff
Aradhus wrote:Woodruff wrote:Aradhus wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Aradhus wrote:
You are catholic, or you were catholic?
Both.
Why? I get why simpletons like Jay and his ilk are, but with you it doesn't quite fit.(with what I know of you from your posts) I have a feeling you're a catholic for completely different reasons than someone like Jay is. With you it has little to do with faith.
You seem to be implying that someone who is intelligent, thoughtful and reasoned cannot possibly be a religious person of faith...why would you believe that to be the case?
You're assuming an awful lot there buddy, but if your assumptions were correct, the answer would be experience.
I realize I was assuming a lot, which was why I ASKED.
So then if my understanding of your implication was inaccurate, which part of it was inaccurate?
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:54 pm
by Gregrios
It seems to me that buddy should have approached his calling with a little more care and preparation. He should of just stood a foot off the property and preached to people as they left instead of going inside the store where someone according to man's law has ownership over the property. Not that I fault him too much because I'm sure he was going by God's law which gives him the right to speak where ever he wants since the whole of earth is God's and not man's. Once again it simply comes down to perspcective.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:01 pm
by Woodruff
Gregrios wrote:It seems to me that buddy should have approached his calling with a little more care and preparation. He should of just stood a foot off the property and preached to people as they left instead of going inside the store where someone according to man's law has ownership over the property.
If he were a foot off the property, he wouldn't have had much chance to speak with anyone, unless perhaps they walked to the mall and happened to go in his direction when they left.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:27 pm
by Gregrios
Woodruff wrote:Gregrios wrote:It seems to me that buddy should have approached his calling with a little more care and preparation. He should of just stood a foot off the property and preached to people as they left instead of going inside the store where someone according to man's law has ownership over the property.
If he were a foot off the property, he wouldn't have had much chance to speak with anyone, unless perhaps they walked to the mall and happened to go in his direction when they left.
I admit that I'm going under the assumption that there is a sidewalk outside of the mall inwhich surely he could have spread his message to a few at least.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:16 pm
by hecter
Gregrios wrote:It seems to me that buddy should have approached his calling with a little more care and preparation. He should of just stood a foot off the property and preached to people as they left instead of going inside the store where someone according to man's law has ownership over the property. Not that I fault him too much because I'm sure he was going by God's law which gives him the right to speak where ever he wants since the whole of earth is God's and not man's. Once again it simply comes down to perspcective.
Or, better yet, he could have simply followed their rules and procedures and preached inside the mall to a nice constant audience, instead of a couple of people.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:31 pm
by THORNHEART
or better yet he could have left when asked. and come back another day.
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:26 am
by MeDeFe
hecter wrote:Gregrios wrote:It seems to me that buddy should have approached his calling with a little more care and preparation. He should of just stood a foot off the property and preached to people as they left instead of going inside the store where someone according to man's law has ownership over the property. Not that I fault him too much because I'm sure he was going by God's law which gives him the right to speak where ever he wants since the whole of earth is God's and not man's. Once again it simply comes down to perspcective.
Or, better yet, he could have simply followed their rules and procedures and preached inside the mall to a nice constant audience, instead of a couple of people.
Yeah, why not get a permit and stick to the designated areas?
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:51 am
by Aradhus
Woodruff wrote:Aradhus wrote:
Why? I get why simpletons like Jay and his ilk are, but with you it doesn't quite fit.(with what I know of you from your posts) I have a feeling you're a catholic for completely different reasons than someone like Jay is. With you it has little to do with faith.
You seem to be implying that someone who is intelligent, thoughtful and reasoned cannot possibly be a religious person of faith...why would you believe that to be the case?
People like Jay didn't search for 'the answer' they jumped to their conclusion because they don't know and it fits for him because he doesn't have the brain power to reason anything out. TGD came to his conclusion after reasoning things out(potentially.. possibly..hopefully). Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing, but coming to god after going through the various mechanisms is not retarded(christianity is though, a journeys end, with some faulty cogs, and unconnected dots )
Re: Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:17 am
by Baron Von PWN
THORNHEART wrote:or better yet he could have left when asked. and come back another day.
wow. I actually agree with you.