How is what Jesus did different than 'suicide by cop'

[High Guard]

This is what I think really happened:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/188207/family_guy_jesus/

and afterward some people got blazed and wrote the bible.

[Beastly]

i don't blame god. i don't beleive in him (or his neccesary counterpart). i think bible thumpers should blame God though. that is if there was any logic involved.

Christians don't blame god for bad things, they blame evil for all bad things.

[Malkithe]

i don't blame god. i don't beleive in him (or his neccesary counterpart). i think bible thumpers should blame God though. that is if there was any logic involved.

Christians don't blame god for bad things, they blame evil for all bad things.

The crazy ones do (listen to Falwell). But remember that evil is part of a system brought into being by god's will and intellect. So anything bad that happens is part of his divine order in the world, weither he's seen as opperating directly or not.

[Norse]

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Dammit!

[cleveridea]

It's written somewhere in the Bible that there is no greater act of love than to sacrifice one's life for a friend.

My BS-o-meter went crazy on that one...

I'm with you on that one!!

Sorry but it's in there, it's John 15:13.

Kind of strange you would doubt something like that.

I do not doubt that it was incredibly mis-applied by the OP in a complete non-sequitor to point of the the thread. Finding passages in the bible and regurgitating them accurately doesn't mean it is relevant in the least.

[Beastly]

The crazy ones do (listen to Falwell). But remember that evil is part of a system brought into being by god's will and intellect. So anything bad that happens is part of his divine order in the world, weither he's seen as opperating directly or not.

Most Christians believe this world is not Gods world, yes it was created by him, but it belongs to satan.

Hence, Christians are not of the world or belong here. It is the afterlife that is what they look forward to.

[johnnyrotten]

Question: Would murdering a cop in order to get killed by another cop count as suicide by cop? I'm kinda new to the suicide by cop idea.

[mybike_yourface]

i don't blame god. i don't beleive in him (or his neccesary counterpart). i think bible thumpers should blame God though. that is if there was any logic involved.

Christians don't blame god for bad things, they blame evil for all bad things.

who made evil?

[mybike_yourface]

The crazy ones do (listen to Falwell). But remember that evil is part of a system brought into being by god's will and intellect. So anything bad that happens is part of his divine order in the world, weither he's seen as opperating directly or not.

Most Christians believe this world is not Gods world, yes it was created by him, but it belongs to satan.

Hence, Christians are not of the world or belong here. It is the afterlife that is what they look forward to.

so god gave us, his creations that he supposedly loves to satan's world? talk about bad parenting.

not to mention the whole satan concept is a contrived notion. it's both a misenterpreation of the old testiment and a political tool used(and still used) against paganism.

[Iliad]

The crazy ones do (listen to Falwell). But remember that evil is part of a system brought into being by god's will and intellect. So anything bad that happens is part of his divine order in the world, weither he's seen as opperating directly or not.

Most Christians believe this world is not Gods world, yes it was created by him, but it belongs to satan.

Hence, Christians are not of the world or belong here. It is the afterlife that is what they look forward to.

What? Good try but you still can't post proper posts

[MR. Nate]

i don't blame god. i don't beleive in him (or his neccesary counterpart). i think bible thumpers should blame God though. that is if there was any logic involved.

Christians don't blame god for bad things, they blame evil for all bad things.

who made evil?

I've answered this questions "sundry times and in divers manners" so instead of re-composing the argument, I'll quote myself.

December of '06, "Validity of the Bible"

IF he didnt create sin...who did? Are their multiple gods?

You act as if sin were something in and of itself. It's not. If an orange is a good deed, than a bad deed is not an apple, it's a rotten, dried up orange. Sin is a perversion of the good, not an equal alternative. So who created sin? We did. We took good things that God gave us and twisted them.

February of this year "Continuation of Christianity"

When you say "created evil" that makes it sound as if evil is the equal, opposite of good. It's not, it's simply a perversion of the charechter of God, which is good. So, no, God did not Create good, He IS good. Man did not create evil, but he participated in actions which were not as perfect as the morality of God.

[salvadevinemasse]

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Dammit!

LMAO! Why the dammit? Looking for a donkey? You can try to get a single girl to do a donkey show norse *wink*

[Norse]

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Dammit!

LMAO! Why the dammit? Looking for a donkey? You can try to get a single girl to do a donkey show norse *wink*

Are you offering?

[vtmarik]

So we created evil. Through our original sin, or was it man's eventual rejection of God?

[salvadevinemasse]

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Dammit!

LMAO! Why the dammit? Looking for a donkey? You can try to get a single girl to do a donkey show norse *wink*

Are you offering?

No, because I'm not single and not into animals that way

[MR. Nate]

So we created evil. Through our original sin, or was it man's eventual rejection of God?

I would prefer not to look at evil as an entity to be created, but as an error.

How about this:
There's a web page, written by an omniscient webmaster, call him "Lack." It's perfect. There are no issues with it. Then a hacker comes along, and changes the code so that the defending dice always come up 6's. Who ruined the site? Is the existence of the bug Lack's fault? Can we honestly refer to the bug as having a separate existence?

[mybike_yourface]

i don't blame god. i don't beleive in him (or his neccesary counterpart). i think bible thumpers should blame God though. that is if there was any logic involved.

Christians don't blame god for bad things, they blame evil for all bad things.

who made evil?

I've answered this questions "sundry times and in divers manners" so instead of re-composing the argument, I'll quote myself.

December of '06, "Validity of the Bible"

IF he didnt create sin...who did? Are their multiple gods?

You act as if sin were something in and of itself. It's not. If an orange is a good deed, than a bad deed is not an apple, it's a rotten, dried up orange. Sin is a perversion of the good, not an equal alternative. So who created sin? We did. We took good things that God gave us and twisted them.

February of this year "Continuation of Christianity"

When you say "created evil" that makes it sound as if evil is the equal, opposite of good. It's not, it's simply a perversion of the charechter of God, which is good. So, no, God did not Create good, He IS good. Man did not create evil, but he participated in actions which were not as perfect as the morality of God.

and we end up in one of those circular christian arguments. once again it's humanity's fault. god created us the way we are, set up all the pitfalls, knew how we would react, yet it's still our fault. it's such a guilty masochistic religion.

why are so many cristians playing a game centered around trying to get a dice roll of 666?

[vtmarik]

So we created evil. Through our original sin, or was it man's eventual rejection of God?

I would prefer not to look at evil as an entity to be created, but as an error.

How about this:
There's a web page, written by an omniscient webmaster, call him "Lack." It's perfect. There are no issues with it. Then a hacker comes along, and changes the code so that the defending dice always come up 6's. Who ruined the site? Is the existence of the bug Lack's fault? Can we honestly refer to the bug as having a separate existence?

Not Lack's fault, certainly.

Nothing is hack-proof and once the code has been changed it does have some form of separate existence (i.e. that the hacker isn't doing it to each individual game but rather to the codebase at the root of the game).

The additional difference here is that Lack will come down and fix the bug.


So I ask again, did man create evil through original sin, or through the fact that sentient beings will eventually come to the conclusion (given the lack of physical evidence) that God either doesn't exist or has left?

Don't think of it as an entity, think of it as an abstract thought construct.

Faith can move mountains, but repeated thought given one idea can make mountains.

[jay_a2j]

Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.

Jesus didn't choose to die to escape anything. He chose to die so that we could live. Self-sacrifice for those He loves.

[mybike_yourface]

Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.

Jesus didn't choose to die to escape anything. He chose to die so that we could live. Self-sacrifice for those He loves.

jesus died for his own sins, not mine.

[daddy1gringo]

jesus died for his own sins, not mine.

I won't bite on the bait of the "his sins" part, but IF Jesus did not die for your sins, that is by your choice, not his; you could change that anytime. You're invited; it's great!

[daddy1gringo]

I would prefer not to look at evil as an entity to be created, but as an error.

How about this:
There's a web page, written by an omniscient webmaster, call him "Lack." It's perfect. There are no issues with it. Then a hacker comes along, and changes the code so that the defending dice always come up 6's. Who ruined the site? Is the existence of the bug Lack's fault? Can we honestly refer to the bug as having a separate existence?

Not Lack's fault, certainly.

The additional difference here is that Lack will come down and fix the bug.

That's not a difference, it's something the two scenarios have in common. He most certainly will also.

So I ask again, did man create evil through original sin, or through the fact that sentient beings will eventually come to the conclusion (given the lack of physical evidence) that God either doesn't exist or has left?

Can't be the second. Those of us who do not come to that conclusion sin also.

Don't think of it as an entity, think of it as an abstract thought construct.

The greek word translated "sin" is "hamartia" which is a term for archers and others who cast projectiles in sport and war. It means "to miss the mark" just to support your point and Nate's point that it's not a thing in itself, but a lack or failure of something else.

[vtmarik]

That's not a difference, it's something the two scenarios have in common. He most certainly will also.

When? Lack would get that hack fixed post haste, but God hasn't seen fit to fix the hack in the code that created evil yet.

You seem to have skipped this one:

Nothing is hack-proof and once the code has been changed it does have some form of separate existence (i.e. that the hacker isn't doing it to each individual game but rather to the codebase at the root of the game).

Like philosophical constructs (they exist because we say they do), the code of a website has a separate existence, and if it is altered the hack then gains existence by that very fact.

Can't be the second. Those of us who do not come to that conclusion sin also.

I concede that point, I forgot about that

The greek word translated "sin" is "hamartia" which is a term for archers and others who cast projectiles in sport and war. It means "to miss the mark" just to support your point and Nate's point that it's not a thing in itself, but a lack or failure of something else.

Then why is sin spoken of as a quality of a thing, instead of a lack of something? Sin must be a thing because it is referred to as a noun. "He is sinful." "That is a sin." It's probably a failing of the English language to convey something as it really is, God knows there's plenty of those.

So, what qualities make something evil rather than good? Is it a default state, or something that occurs after a certain amount of time?

[MR. Nate]

When?

I wish I knew!

Like philosophical constructs (they exist because we say they do), the code of a website has a separate existence, and if it is altered the hack then gains existence by that very fact.

I don't think I have the warrant to argue that evil doesn't exist, I'm trying to clarify the state in which it exists. (I think that's what your asking)

Then why is sin spoken of as a quality of a thing, instead of a lack of something? Sin must be a thing because it is referred to as a noun. "He is sinful." "That is a sin." It's probably a failing of the English language to convey something as it really is, God knows there's plenty of those.

So, what qualities make something evil rather than good? Is it a default state, or something that occurs after a certain amount of time?

I think that in the past, there has been a certain understanding of evil, and so references to it were lax in their structure. With the current exposure of Eastern philosophy, in which evil actually is an equal and opposite of the good, Christianity has had to re-think how it refers to evil.

Something is evil when it fails to attain the standard of perfection. So morally neutrality becomes something of a myth. Action that we would often consider "morally neutral" (eating, sleeping, sex, running) are either good (meeting physical needs, building the marital bond, exercise) or evil (gluttony, laziness, adultery, escaping justice) depending on when and how they occur. Physical things do not have moral qualities. Persons can be judged on their actions. If their actions are not perfect morally, then they can be safely categorized as evil. Which is why Christian anthropology always begins with a discussion of sin - none of us doe the morally perfect thing all the time.
This leads us to realize our complete separation from God, (who is the moral standard, and therefore, perfect) and our need for a Mediator to bridge that gap. (Jesus, the God-man)

[daddy1gringo]

That's not a difference, it's something the two scenarios have in common. He most certainly will also.

When? Lack would get that hack fixed post haste, but God hasn't seen fit to fix the hack in the code that created evil yet.

I'll give an "amen" to Mr. Nate's answer to that one

You seem to have skipped this one:

Nothing is hack-proof and once the code has been changed it does have some form of separate existence (i.e. that the hacker isn't doing it to each individual game but rather to the codebase at the root of the game).

Exactly, from what I understood of it (not much) I had no beef with it.