The most evil tyrant of 20th century

[zunzee]

definitely Mao...his killings plus is ridiculous policies such as the Big Leap Forward, during which 20 to 40 million Chinese starved to death...

[Simonov]

read Mein Kampf.

just beginning. i don't know how he could turn something called national socialism (pejorative: nazism) into something that bad since both nationalism and socialism can be good if properly guided.

[Bavarian Raven]

...funny thing most people overlook is the fact that the germans did not come up with the idea of concentration camps...it was the british...

...while the germans during the war did HORRIBLE things it is always overlooked that the allies did horrible things as well...but that is never going to be told....

[Arbustos]

even I agree he was a crappy commander, he had no real strategy and knew basicly nothing about waging war. What he did have was a dream of a perfect world with no borders, no corruption, and no crime.

Which in his eyes meant no "subversive" elements as well (e.g., Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc.)

[krusher]

what do you call the extermination of 2 citys full of innocent people? we dont call it genocide, so why should we call the "Jewish Casulties of War" a genocide or a extermination?

[Bavarian Raven]

..i'm not taking sides here but Kushur does bring up a few good points...

[Arbustos]

read Mein Kampf.

just beginning. i don't know how he could turn something called national socialism (pejorative: nazism) into something that bad since both nationalism and socialism can be good if properly guided.

Because the National Socialist German Workers' Party is the biggest misnomer ever created (outside of the D.R.C.).

[muy_thaiguy]

what do you call the extermination of 2 citys full of innocent people? we dont call it genocide, so why should we call the "Jewish Casulties of War" a genocide or a extermination?

Considering the bombings of Japan, Berlin, London, etc, alone were worse then either bomb? I fail to see your point.

[Arbustos]

what do you call the extermination of 2 citys full of innocent people? we dont call it genocide, so why should we call the "Jewish Casulties of War" a genocide or a extermination?

That was a calculated sacrifice and horrible decision for anyone to make. Would you choose hundreds of thousands of people on both sides dying (via land invasion), or thousands of "enemy" civilians? Both suck.

I don't think following up with Nagasaki (possibly so soon) was necessary though...

[Bavarian Raven]

the point he is making is that at least with traditional bombing u can "run", here people had no choice like the jewish in the camps

[Arbustos]

the point he is making is that at least with traditional bombing u can "run", here people had no choice like the jewish in the camps

Then he is conceding that the Holocaust was a tragedy, if it is comparable to the bombs. How then can he so fervently support the individual who ostensibly headed the thing?

[Bavarian Raven]

he's not so much as supporting them as saying that the ww2 history is one sided and we never see the horrible things done by the allies

[khazalid]

Hmm, figures do seem to oscillate a lot from study to study.

I was always led to believe that Stalin had killed more people than Hitler and Mao(and by a fair margin) and that he had commited some cold hearted atrocities that would put Hitler to shame.

Yes he did, but the communists were better in covering it up.



Anyway, Stalin and Mao are probably the ones with the highest kill-count, but Hitler only had about 6 years as opposed to Stalin with 31

not even close if you factor in the casualties from wwII, which is pretty much his sole doing. who voted saddam anyway? redneck plebs

[krusher]

..i'm not taking sides here but Kushur does bring up a few good points...

funny how a real German is afraid to speak out against the lies that the American Media has told about his country and his people... sure it was a horrible time for human century (both sides commited horrible acts) but we can't cover it up and label the loser's of the war as the only evil empire and hide the true facts of what happend in that time and then massively distribute mis-information to the youth creating a generation of closed minded Anti-German population who are so far up there own lies that they have the Germans them self afraid to speak out.... this sort of discrimination is no different then what the Americans are claiming of how the Nazi discriminated on the jews.

[krusher]

he's not so much as supporting them as saying that the ww2 history is one sided and we never see the horrible things done by the allies

yes bavarian you got the point

[ignotus]

Why are Germans not complaining then?

One side my ass! What if Hitler won the war? What would be writen in books then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LO03pd6X-4
This cartoon was a part of US propaganda. But the things in them are all right!

So what do you think how would the world look like if Hitler won?

You are an idiot!

[Bavarian Raven]

...it's not that i am afraid to speak out...i just don't want to be dragged into this and "labeled" so to speak...

but does anyone remember what happened to dresden???

[krusher]

Why are Germans not complaining then?

One side my ass! What if Hitler won the war? What would be writen in books then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LO03pd6X-4
This cartoon was a part of US propaganda. But the things in them are all right!

So what do you think how would the world look like if Hitler won?

You are an idiot!

igno thats exactly what I posted on my previous posts! I'm not here to debate that Hitler was a good guy. I'm here to debate the lies that the American Media has called hitler and labeled him the devil him self... They are changing history and filling the history books with bias propaganda.

[ignotus]

...it's not that i am afraid to speak out...i just don't want to be dragged into this and "labeled" so to speak...

but does anyone remember what happened to dresden???

yes, what happened to Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki was awful, I agree. Although some people would claim otherwise (it was inevitable, it saved human lives, et cetera) those things shouldn't happen, even in war.

[Guiscard]

Ever read any David Irving, Krusher?

You'd like it, I think...

[strike wolf]

what do you call the extermination of 2 citys full of innocent people? we dont call it genocide, so why should we call the "Jewish Casulties of War" a genocide or a extermination?

I'm guessing in your opinion, Jews are worth less than Japanese. According to your logic, putting Japanese Americans into internment camps, which while no doubt was not the right thing to do, was worse than forcing millions of jews to work in concentration camps where it was overcrowded, unsanitary and would be the place where they would work until they died. Of course roughly 200,000 Japanese being killed (not counting post war radiation effects, exact number unknown) by the atom bombs is worse than 6 million Jews slowly dieing painful deaths in concentration camps.

I would not defend the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in any way. They are horrible tragedies that should never be repeated, but neither should what happened with the Holocaust in WWII.

[krusher]

The American Media has so many people under there influence that most consider what they say to be a fact and get angry when some one questions the accuracy of their so called Historical Evidence..... as inteligent beings we cant go with the flow, we have to question this if its really true or if its bias being given to us by a even more corrupted and evil Nation/Empire then the Nazi's.

[ignotus]

igno thats exactly what I posted on my previous posts! I'm not here to debate that Hitler was a good guy. I'm here to debate the lies that the American Media has called hitler and labeled him the devil him self... They are changing history and filling the history books with bias propaganda.

I must admit that when someone mentions Hitler the word Devil pops up as a first on my list.
But your "setting-facts-right" is just misleading and twisting the already proven and undisputed facts. It's not propaganda, it's a fact that Hitler started a war and that most of the atrocities of war were done by germans (at least in Europe). That's a proven fact, and not a trick of American propaganda.

[Bavarian Raven]

...how did bombing dresden and killing mostly woman and children and old men help the war effort when the war was clearly won? There were still military targets to hit...

[krusher]

igno thats exactly what I posted on my previous posts! I'm not here to debate that Hitler was a good guy. I'm here to debate the lies that the American Media has called hitler and labeled him the devil him self... They are changing history and filling the history books with bias propaganda.

I must admit that when someone mentions Hitler the word Devil pops up as a first on my list.
But your "setting-facts-right" is just misleading and twisting the already proven and undisputed facts. It's not propaganda, it's a fact that Hitler started a war and that most of the atrocities of war were done by germans (at least in Europe). That's a proven fact, and not a trick of American propaganda.

atrocities happend every where by both sides, its wrong to label your enemys the evil nation and not mention and hide the atrocities that you commited... you think that the American troops didn't kill, rape and steal from the Germans as they were entering through the citys? Funny how they dont mention that in books and dont teach that in schools... I believe you should judge your self before you judge your enemies and if you gona label Hitler the Devil for what some of his troops did, then you should also Label FDR, Truman, Churchill, Stalin the Devil and have them answear for war crimes and label them the same thing as the history books label Hitler.