Obama, Hilliary, or Mccain

[kletka]

Mitt Romney Mitt Romney Mitt Romney Mitt Romney Mitt Romney

He is kinda cute... But I aint no american

[reminisco]

And if I am going to help you, I'm not going to give you a fish, I'm going to teach you to fish.

so please share with us how you've tried to teach those in need to fish.

i'm not trying to personally attack you here, i just want to know your experience.

because i've done it. i've seen the toll upon the people. upon the soul.

i've seen those few who manage to escape it, only to be gunned down in the crossfire. i've seen those do everything in their power to escape it, and be held back by the prejudice and discrimination of the ignorant who decide that because they come from a "bad" neighborhood, they too must be bad.

because they have to escape the winter to begin with. they don't get a summer to lazily ignore their duties. so many of the poor and disadvantaged just want the CHANCE to have that summer, while all those who've been broken by the endless "winter" tell them not to bother trying. just give up hope.

i'd like to know how many miles you've walked in their shoes before i can accept any argument you make as valid.

[DRoZ]

that story is prejudicial and racially loaded.

what people fail to realise is that the condition of the poor in america, especially that of poor black americans, is that it ALWAYS begins as "winter".

there is no fucking "summer".

and right there, the entire story falls apart, because it assumes everyone starts with a level playing field.

Poor is poor is poor, my friend. Although I agree with your statement about there is no summer, I wholeheartedly disagree with the "especially that of poor black americans" part. The struggles of the poor black americans are no different than that of the poor mexican americans, poor asian americans or any other poor american. Your comment is part of what is wrong with race relations today, even when you are defending african americans, you treat them differently. Although your heart is in the right place, by seperating black poverty from any other poverty, you are seperating races from each other.

[Dancing Mustard]

Stop trying to turn a story about personal responsibility into a race issue.

Tell that to its author...

The original story was about what you describe, the new one however contains phrases such as:
"It's Not Easy Being Green"
"Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house"
"The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs"

All of those are big fat hints that the 'grasshopper' is supposed to be of a different ethnicity to the ant, and the reference to JJ is a direct hint that the Grasshopper is supposed to be black (as is the hint to AA).
Now I don't mind the original story one bit, it's a pretty tale about 'personal responsibility', but what I do mind is a racially loaded tale that attempts to subtly preach that black people are lazier than whites, while masquerading as a parable about generic personal work ethics.

If the author wanted a parable about social responsibility, then why didn't he stick with the original version? If he didn't want it to be a race thing, then why so many references to skin colour?

I suppose what I'm trying to say Bedub, is this: Stop trying to pretend that a story with a clearly racist underlying intent is just an innocent tale about work ethics. Open your eyes, then read inbetween the immensely widely spaced lines; instead of just swallowing the text then hollering away in such a defensive fashion when people point out what should be so blindingly obvious to you.

[bedub1]

that story is prejudicial and racially loaded.

what people fail to realise is that the condition of the poor in america, especially that of poor black americans, is that it ALWAYS begins as "winter".

there is no fucking "summer".

and right there, the entire story falls apart, because it assumes everyone starts with a level playing field.

Poor is poor is poor, my friend. Although I agree with your statement about there is no summer, I wholeheartedly disagree with the "especially that of poor black americans" part. The struggles of the poor black americans are no different than that of the poor mexican americans, poor asian americans or any other poor american. Your comment is part of what is wrong with race relations today, even when you are defending african americans, you treat them differently. Although your heart is in the right place, by seperating black poverty from any other poverty, you are seperating races from each other.

I completely agree. Kermit is a frog, frogs are green. Jesse Jackson is just a guy, not a black guy. By treating him as a black man instead of a man you are being racist. Don't treat me as a white man, treat me as a man. The color of my skin is irrelevant. Kinda relates to my opinion that affirmative action is racist by nature.

During his "I Have a Dream" speech, King said, "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

[DRoZ]

that story is prejudicial and racially loaded.

what people fail to realise is that the condition of the poor in america, especially that of poor black americans, is that it ALWAYS begins as "winter".

there is no fucking "summer".

and right there, the entire story falls apart, because it assumes everyone starts with a level playing field.

Poor is poor is poor, my friend. Although I agree with your statement about there is no summer, I wholeheartedly disagree with the "especially that of poor black americans" part. The struggles of the poor black americans are no different than that of the poor mexican americans, poor asian americans or any other poor american. Your comment is part of what is wrong with race relations today, even when you are defending african americans, you treat them differently. Although your heart is in the right place, by seperating black poverty from any other poverty, you are seperating races from each other.

I completely agree. Kermit is a frog, frogs are green. Jesse Jackson is just a guy, not a black guy. By treating him as a black man instead of a man you are being racist. Don't treat me as a white man, treat me as a man. The color of my skin is irrelevant. Kinda relates to my opinion that affirmative action is racist by nature.

Jesse Jackson makes his living defending black rights, so in the context of the story you posted it insinuates that the grasshopper is black. It definitely has a racist tone to it. I was just saying that the other examples in the story were not necessarily racist towards blacks (AA is for women and all minorities, not just blacks, and the kermit bit could be used for any skin tone) but the JJ reference was 100% aimed at disparaging blacks.

[bedub1]

Well lets remove JJ and put somebody else in then. We can re-write the re-write.

[Nickbaldquim]

And if I am going to help you, I'm not going to give you a fish, I'm going to teach you to fish.

Just don't give them fuckers a fishing rod...By golly, there'd be a a new weapon to use.

[muy_thaiguy]

And if I am going to help you, I'm not going to give you a fish, I'm going to teach you to fish.

Just don't give them fuckers a fishing rod...By golly, there'd be a a new weapon to use.

You already did that name I thought.

[Nickbaldquim]

And if I am going to help you, I'm not going to give you a fish, I'm going to teach you to fish.

Just don't give them fuckers a fishing rod...By golly, there'd be a a new weapon to use.

You already did that name I thought.

He's a special lad.

[muy_thaiguy]

I see...

[Napoleon Ier]

I posted a pdf before (which was promptly criticized by btownmeggy for having models that were too long reaching) that essentially claimed that if the bush tax cuts were to continue, we would be forced to service our debt at a rate that even the US gdp would not be able to stand.

Part of sound fiscal policy is that if your going to cut taxes, you have to cut spending too...

Which part hasnt occurred during the current presidency...

That's because the last Republican presidents have more or less followed the policy of Reagan with the economy. Cut taxes and increase spending. Smart people...

Slight confusion about why Reagan had to spend here: what he did was pursue what has been called a militarily Keynesian economic policy, but expressly stating that this was a means to an end (specifically, stand down the USSR). Bloody worked as well.

[Nickbaldquim]

the ignorance of socialist thinkers....

Just because direct tax rates have been decreased, does not mean to say that there isn't the same, or more tax revenue raised.

If, for instance, I was to charged half as much tax as I currently am, then I would have a nice healthy chunk of cash to spend on more products and paraphernalia , boosting industry, sservices and tax revenue in other area's....all that it would mean, is that the general population would have nicer shit, bigger cars and probably have more efficient public services.

[Napoleon Ier]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice that the revamped 'Ant Vs Grasshopper' tale contains several extremely strong hints towards the fact that the Grasshopper represents a black man.

Is the revamped tale really intended to push the '"lazy people get a free ride in todays world" angle? Or is it really trying to say "black people are lazy, and they're getting a free ride in todays world" while masquerading as the former?

It makes the excellent point that ignorant white liberal masochism has led to an increased supply of free rides to blacks, which in turn has created a sector of lazy black recipients larger than the white sector. At no point, however, does it state that Blacks are genetically inferior. It's entirely compatible with the old "socio-cultural phenomena" argument for blacks overall being poorer in Western economies.

[Napoleon Ier]

It's pretty obvious we aren't free. The thing is that we aren't going to get freedom by voting/protesting/anything allowed under the current system. When you guys are ready to storm Washington give me a call, but until then I'm going to stick to our semi-semi-annual popularity contests.

Ron Paul!
Ron Paul, Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul. Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul? Ron Paul.
Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul!!!!! Ron Paul Ron Paul, Ron Paul Ron Paul, Ron Paul . Ron Paul; Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul! Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul.

Ron Paul?
Ron Paul.

RRRRRRRon Paul!!!!!

Sounds 'bout right to me. Better an authentic man of convinctions like Paul with sound understanding of macro-economics than a bungling cretin riding on support of masses lobotomized and conditioned to let racial guilt and political correctness govern their choice like Barack Hussein "gimme-yo-change" Obama.

[Napoleon Ier]

the ignorance of socialist thinkers....

Just because direct tax rates have been decreased, does not mean to say that there isn't the same, or more tax revenue raised.

If, for instance, I was to charged half as much tax as I currently am, then I would have a nice healthy chunk of cash to spend on more products and paraphernalia , boosting industry, sservices and tax revenue in other area's....all that it would mean, is that the general population would have nicer shit, bigger cars and probably have more efficient public services.

This is racialist against the people who dont like work.

[Nickbaldquim]

the ignorance of socialist thinkers....

Just because direct tax rates have been decreased, does not mean to say that there isn't the same, or more tax revenue raised.

If, for instance, I was to charged half as much tax as I currently am, then I would have a nice healthy chunk of cash to spend on more products and paraphernalia , boosting industry, sservices and tax revenue in other area's....all that it would mean, is that the general population would have nicer shit, bigger cars and probably have more efficient public services.

This is racialist against the people who dont like work.

By golly, you're right!

I think I may need to go on one of them nuu laybor sponsored crash courses in learning about the oppressed and unhappy dole-bunnies, that simply are unable to work because this will decrease their income, and not give them enough spare time to complete the new Grand theft auto on their XBOX360's before the next brand new game is out....my fucking heart bleeds.

[Jucdor]

The problem with overtaxing the rich is that when you take vast gobs of money away from people who make an above average amount of money you remove a lot of the incentive to make money in the first place. Taxes should be a straight percentage, perhaps with a slightly higher or lower percent for the extremely poor and extremely rich. That's only fair.

You never get less money even if you earn more money. The tax you pay goes to another level once you've earned certain amount of money, but everything you've earned so far still has the lower tax percentage. And indeed the rich has all other ways to earn money without having to pay taxes for them. You can get certain amount of stock income taxfree. And the mere fact that once you earn enough excessive money that doesn't go into your basic living you can buy those stocks and all of a sudden you could have thousands of people working to make you more rich so you're damn right the rich should be more heavily taxed.

[Jucdor]

the ignorance of socialist thinkers....

Just because direct tax rates have been decreased, does not mean to say that there isn't the same, or more tax revenue raised.

If, for instance, I was to charged half as much tax as I currently am, then I would have a nice healthy chunk of cash to spend on more products and paraphernalia , boosting industry, sservices and tax revenue in other area's....all that it would mean, is that the general population would have nicer shit, bigger cars and probably have more efficient public services.

When compared to high taxes and low taxes the same amount of money still moves. The government still pays salaries, builds roads and does everything your average company does, the theory is that it doesn't do that as efficiently as the private sector so with the same amount of money you're supposed to get more from private sector. But what is the problem with your (I say your, because I'm not American) current situation is that your country has a lot of debt and it has to pay the interests each year. So the fact that you've used other people's money to keep your government running means that each year a lot of money you pay on taxes goes to thin air. Now what I would see more sensible is to raise taxes and pay the debts away and with your current situation you'd first need to stop loaning money so you'd need to not only raise taxes fast, but also cut spending. Which in many cases will mean yet even more unequal society as public services in your country are usually for those who can't afford to use private sector.

[Nickbaldquim]

When compared to high taxes and low taxes the same amount of money still moves.

Yes.

The government still pays salaries, builds roads and does everything your average company does,

Ahh yes, but after numerous barriers of beauracratic resistance, lemon-tea drinking and general inefficiency.

the theory is that it doesn't do that as efficiently as the private sector so with the same amount of money you're supposed to get more from private sector

.

Bingo! though quite a basic analysis, cock-chops.

But what is the problem with your (I say your, because I'm not American)...blah blah

Well bugger me, that makes 2 of us! But what your problem is (I say yours, because I'm not finnish) is that you are pseudo-socialist pro-european ugly cunt with a small pecker.

[muy_thaiguy]

the ignorance of socialist thinkers....

Just because direct tax rates have been decreased, does not mean to say that there isn't the same, or more tax revenue raised.

If, for instance, I was to charged half as much tax as I currently am, then I would have a nice healthy chunk of cash to spend on more products and paraphernalia , boosting industry, sservices and tax revenue in other area's....all that it would mean, is that the general population would have nicer shit, bigger cars and probably have more efficient public services.

When compared to high taxes and low taxes the same amount of money still moves. The government still pays salaries, builds roads and does everything your average company does, the theory is that it doesn't do that as efficiently as the private sector so with the same amount of money you're supposed to get more from private sector. But what is the problem with your (I say your, because I'm not American) current situation is that your country has a lot of debt and it has to pay the interests each year. So the fact that you've used other people's money to keep your government running means that each year a lot of money you pay on taxes goes to thin air. Now what I would see more sensible is to raise taxes and pay the debts away and with your current situation you'd first need to stop loaning money so you'd need to not only raise taxes fast, but also cut spending. Which in many cases will mean yet even more unequal society as public services in your country are usually for those who can't afford to use private sector.

I suggest you take a look at the guy's profile before saying those things in bold, it helps a bit.

[Dancing Mustard]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice that the revamped 'Ant Vs Grasshopper' tale contains several extremely strong hints towards the fact that the Grasshopper represents a black man.

Is the revamped tale really intended to push the '"lazy people get a free ride in todays world" angle? Or is it really trying to say "black people are lazy, and they're getting a free ride in todays world" while masquerading as the former?

It makes the excellent point that ignorant white liberal masochism has led to an increased supply of free rides to blacks, which in turn has created a sector of lazy black recipients larger than the white sector. At no point, however, does it state that Blacks are genetically inferior. It's entirely compatible with the old "socio-cultural phenomena" argument for blacks overall being poorer in Western economies.

So once we cut through the noise about 'genetically inferior' and throw out the stinking red herrings of your trademark pseudo-jargon, the answer you're rambling out is "Yes DM, it is the latter of those two options".

Whether you agree with the tale's revised motto or not is irrelevant to your answer to my question (though it's a seperate debate that there's probably some mileage in). Essentially, you're an option two kind of guy, and you accept that the tale is making a racial judgement, and is not a straight tale about work-ethic alone. Cheers.

[Nobunaga]

Stop trying to turn a story about personal responsibility into a race issue.

Tell that to its author...

The original story was about what you describe, the new one however contains phrases such as:
"It's Not Easy Being Green"
"Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house"
"The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs"

All of those are big fat hints that the 'grasshopper' is supposed to be of a different ethnicity to the ant, and the reference to JJ is a direct hint that the Grasshopper is supposed to be black (as is the hint to AA).
Now I don't mind the original story one bit, it's a pretty tale about 'personal responsibility', but what I do mind is a racially loaded tale that attempts to subtly preach that black people are lazier than whites, while masquerading as a parable about generic personal work ethics.

If the author wanted a parable about social responsibility, then why didn't he stick with the original version? If he didn't want it to be a race thing, then why so many references to skin colour?

I suppose what I'm trying to say Bedub, is this: Stop trying to pretend that a story with a clearly racist underlying intent is just an innocent tale about work ethics. Open your eyes, then read inbetween the immensely widely spaced lines; instead of just swallowing the text then hollering away in such a defensive fashion when people point out what should be so blindingly obvious to you.

... Yeah, racial refernces are obvious. The grasshopper is the black guy, though the ant need not be white (could be black, too, if you think abou it). Sadly, though, the story reflects the reality of modern America, like it or not, and demonstrates how government has made slaves of sorts again of Blacks in America, through cradle to grave "care" and abandoning them where they need the most help (education, but not necessarily schools).

...imho

...

[jay_a2j]

Grasshopper, ant, racist, blah, blah, blah....

You can always find a way to be a "victim". The disease of laziness knows no race and is bound by no color. And it's true what another poster said about "that's what's wrong with this country". At least ONE thing that is wrong with it. There are far too many people wanting a free-ride through life and expect the responsible people in the world to take care of them. (I see it everyday with 40 year old inmates who have never worked a day in their life - outside of selling drugs)


Compassion.... yes.

Compassion for those who are TRYING to achieve, not waiting for all that "life owes them".

[DaGip]

Grasshopper, ant, racist, blah, blah, blah....

You can always find a way to be a "victim". The disease of laziness knows no race and is bound by no color. And it's true what another poster said about "that's what's wrong with this country". At least ONE thing that is wrong with it. There are far too many people wanting a free-ride through life and expect the responsible people in the world to take care of them. (I see it everyday with 40 year old inmates who have never worked a day in their life - outside of selling drugs)


Compassion.... yes.

Compassion for those who are TRYING to achieve, not waiting for all that "life owes them".

Nice to see you around jay!

Talking about handouts and welfare, don't you think this six hundred dollar rebate from the government is just that? Isn't this what Republicans are supposed to be against? What have these candidates really said about the rebates? I know Ron Paul was against it, as it was actually doing nothing to help the situation. It was only a government handout that the Americans will have to pay back in tax revenue.