EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[Ragian]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

[Votanic]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

Oh for Pete's sake....
Okay, I see what you're saying, but still...

We know that the kill went through, and we know (right?) that Vot was blocked. Neither of those actions were performed by Devante. I asked for directions late yesterday, but I got none so I stuck to my guns. 66% chance Devante isn't scum.

[Ragian]

But still what?

[Charle]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

This is a very good point, and if you are town, then there is a very good chance that scum is Kong, Fusi and Strike. This makes sense, as it is a very good scum combination.

I am happy to go for any of those if you guys decide.

[SoN!c]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

This is a very good point, and if you are town, then there is a very good chance that scum is Kong, Fusi and Strike. This makes sense, as it is a very good scum combination.

I am happy to go for any of those if you guys decide.

What would Ragian say if he was scum? Exactly that. It's a good defence - not a very good point.

This was the first vote when it got shape:
Swang (5) - fusi, kongming, charle, devante, votanic
No Lynch (4) - kingm, , Pixar, Traf, DDS
DDS (3) - Max, Ragian, pmc
Devante (2) - Strike, Swang
Votanic (1) - Loose

This was the final vote:
DDS (5) - Max, Ragian, pmc, Swang, Kongming
Swang (4) - fusi, charle, devante, votanic
No Lynch (4) - kingm, , Pixar, Traf, DDS
Devante (1) - Strike
Votanic (1) - Loose

Turned out the no lynchers D1 are all town and all 5 who were on the Swangwagon are still alive today.


Next day the Swangwagon continued even if he got tracked by Vot who saw no movement:
swang (6) - Vot, charle, fusibaseball, pix, strike wolf, kingm
Charle (1) - PMC
Votanic (2) - swang, LC
Strike (1) - ragian

Again all 6 who voted Swang are still alive today and Charle / Fusi is the D1-D2 combo that stands out to me.

I think it's a good strategy scum would decide they needed to vote but not all 3 on the same target as that would be too obvious..

But 2 sticking to the same player with a good explanation could get away with it so Fusi provided that and when the opportuny presented itself they blamed Vot later in the game for mislynching Swang (vot voting swang when he saw no PR movement). In that scenario Charle / Fusi need a 3rd scum that is a total lone wolf when it comes to voting, Ragian fits that profile.

Ragian is the only currently alive player that voted but did not vote Swang D2

[Ragian]

This sort of detective work is exactly what is needed. I agree with most of it, but I obviously take offence that you still think I'm scum. I feel like I'm pulling a lot of weight here

What if we meet in the middle? Would you prefer Charle over Fusi or vice versa?

[SoN!c]

This sort of detective work is exactly what is needed. I agree with most of it, but I obviously take offence that you still think I'm scum. I feel like I'm pulling a lot of weight here

What if we meet in the middle? Would you prefer Charle over Fusi or vice versa?

It should not matter one iota?

But let's ask Fusi why he didn't sided with Traf and the D1 no lynch voters? Traf had a good point there and a town Traf is always like a town Fusi with very similar frame of mind.

So I would have expected a town Fusi to do just that siding with townie Traf. Instead Fusi immediately voted Swang in his opening post and stayed on him until skulking Swang was wacked by town on D2 - which is a great scum target as Swang is always skulking..

[Votanic]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

This is a very good point, and if you are town, then there is a very good chance that scum is Kong, Fusi and Strike. This makes sense, as it is a very good scum combination.

I am happy to go for any of those if you guys decide.

I also kinda-sorta feel like this trio is a reasonable Scum-possibility.
Two well-polished players and one self-identified wild-card who might have been kept largely absent by design.

Look, I'm not really a vibe-based player, and I hate trusting too much in such things, ...but at this point, that is almost all Town has to go on.

Yes, it could be wrong, but seriously, lets some energy into the Fusi, Strike, & Kong idea.
In fact, I'm still voting for one of them (strike) right now as I write this.

[Votanic]

Also, one more time, just to over-explain.

I didn't change my vote on Swang evne after tracking him, because I didn't have any better scum-lead to choose instead.
I suppose I also didn't want to reveal my PR at that point, ...but yeah, I could have just made up a reason for taking my vote off swang.
Of course, in hindsight, yes, it would have been better to change my vote.

[SoN!c]

Also, one more time, just to over-explain.

I didn't change my vote on Swang evne after tracking him, because I didn't have any better scum-lead to choose instead.
I suppose I also didn't want to reveal my PR at that point, ...but yeah, I could have just made up a reason for taking my vote off swang.
Of course, in hindsight, yes, it would have been better to change my vote.

Let me over-explain the FoS on Fusi in regard to your track on Swang and still voting him: it has nothing to do with you. Swang would have been lynched anyways on D2 and Fusi would have voted him on D2 again anyways just like he voted him on D1. With or without your vote on him.

He just used your track later to clear his name (pinning the mislynch on you). What were you supposed to do anyways; expose yourself as town 3 shot tracker on D2? That entire post was figs after Easter to justify the "mislynch" on Swang.

Swang is the perfect fall-guy for scum that wants to fool town because you know in advance, even before the game starts, that Swang will do what he always does: skulking

Fusi his vote on Swang is -together with Charle- early voting. It seems a strategy to place 2 votes early on -and two times on Swang not rising suspicion- knowing sooner or later town will take the skulking bait.

"lets puts some energy into the Fusi, Strike, & Kong idea"

: i just did on Fusi here

[Kingm]

12. Ragian His latest post is either Town-comfirming, ...or else a perfectly deadly scum lie.
Yes, In case you missed it, Ragian received Kingm's second invention.
However!?!? according to Kingm:

I'm just playing with an open hand,I was the town inventor, I gave away town tracker to LC, so that was lost, and I have also given away the roleblock to another player who think is town

So what gives? here?
Ragian, Kingm said he gave you the Roleblock Invention, not the Tracker Invention, so why are you claiming that you tracked devante??

Yeah, Ragian was the one I gave the roleblock too, and I see from later post here that Ragian never claimed that he tracked dev.

[kongming3]

I obviously know you're missing a piece from that proposed trio as I'm town, but I am fine with voting fusi instead as long as we have a clear candidate chain in mind if he turns up town.

[SoN!c]

12. Ragian His latest post is either Town-comfirming, ...or else a perfectly deadly scum lie.
Yes, In case you missed it, Ragian received Kingm's second invention.
However!?!? according to Kingm:

I'm just playing with an open hand,I was the town inventor, I gave away town tracker to LC, so that was lost, and I have also given away the roleblock to another player who think is town

So what gives? here?
Ragian, Kingm said he gave you the Roleblock Invention, not the Tracker Invention, so why are you claiming that you tracked devante??

Yeah, Ragian was the one I gave the roleblock too, and I see from later post here that Ragian never claimed that he tracked dev.

This is why Ragian has a big FoS and why im voting him, and so has Charle a FoS by coming to Ragian's aid so swiftly..., calling Ragian's reply "a very good point" (on the deciding day no less, and without further questions asked).

Immediatly in the same sentence Charle concluded it's Strike, Kong + namedrops Fusi too.

You have to wonder, is this just to get credability?. (with 3 scummies left in 6 candidates the scum choice would be Dev or Fusi).. and Ragian claimed Dev didn't move "I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill." so you can't put Dev in there anyways right?

Is scum Charle realy prepared to vote Fusi and if so, is it just a clever tactic knowing one scum is expandable at this stage?

And if scum have to drop Dev, that proposed trio needs 1 scum anyways? So it has to be Fusi anyways as a scum Charle can't say its him while coming to scum Ragians aid..

And why didn't Ragian came forward by himself clearing Dev 66% or sharing that info with town? It's important..

[Ragian]

Dude...that's just wrong. You guys thought I said that I tracked Dev, which I didn't and never said I did. You're fossing me on all the wrong counts here (or voting or whatever you're doing). If you don't trust me, then at least trust two confirmed townies that think I'm town (PMC and King).

Town
Vot
King
Me

Most likely town
Devante (unless he's the scum who's not the roleblocker and not the one carrying out the kill)

Three scum to find here
Son!c
Fusi
Charle
Strike
Kong

My money is on Charle, Fusi, and Kong (unless it's Strike instead of Kong).

[Ragian]

What do you mean I claimed to have tracked Devante? Where do you get that? I blocked him last night. I.e. he's not the one blocking you, and he's not the one carrying out the kill.

This is a very good point, and if you are town, then there is a very good chance that scum is Kong, Fusi and Strike. This makes sense, as it is a very good scum combination.

I am happy to go for any of those if you guys decide.

I also kinda-sorta feel like this trio is a reasonable Scum-possibility.
Two well-polished players and one self-identified wild-card who might have been kept largely absent by design.

Look, I'm not really a vibe-based player, and I hate trusting too much in such things, ...but at this point, that is almost all Town has to go on.

Yes, it could be wrong, but seriously, lets some energy into the Fusi, Strike, & Kong idea.
In fact, I'm still voting for one of them (strike) right now as I write this.

Why are you on Strike rather than Charle?

[Kingm]

Dude...that's just wrong. You guys thought I said that I tracked Dev, which I didn't and never said I did. You're fossing me on all the wrong counts here (or voting or whatever you're doing). If you don't trust me, then at least trust two confirmed townies that think I'm town (PMC and King).

Town
Vot
King
Me

Most likely town
Devante (unless he's the scum who's not the roleblocker and not the one carrying out the kill)

Three scum to find here
Son!c
Fusi
Charle
Strike
Kong

My money is on Charle, Fusi, and Kong (unless it's Strike instead of Kong).

I thought you wore town when I gave it to you like days ago (ingame, months ago IRL ), now I'm not so sure, but I'm not sure you are scum either lol, but I will just continue to read what the more experienced players think, and then try to make up my mind, so far I'm sticking with the early vote from earlier.

[SoN!c]

And Ragian, why didn't you share the info that you blocked Dev before? From yourself and not only after questioned by town?

[Charle]

Also, one more time, just to over-explain.

I didn't change my vote on Swang evne after tracking him, because I didn't have any better scum-lead to choose instead.
I suppose I also didn't want to reveal my PR at that point, ...but yeah, I could have just made up a reason for taking my vote off swang.
Of course, in hindsight, yes, it would have been better to change my vote.

I am with you here Vot, think this is where we will find scum.

Vote Strike

[strike wolf]

@Rag: It was the post where you accused me of a Freudian slip back on D1 after I posted about Kong's "suspicious seeming town" scum slip. When I called you out on suddenly coming back to a supposed slip I made 2 game days prior despite not seeming to care about it before, you backed off quickly claiming that you'd only been joking. It didn't seem like a joke and saying it was after calling you out on it just seems like a knee jerk reaction when I hypothesized a connection between you and Kong. Granted I apparently had attributed another post defending Kong to you that I couldn't seem to find going back across your posts D3. On the contrary, it seemed more like you made a point of mentioning him as one of the 3 you'd like to vote and then conveniently started pushing for Dev and Fusi instead and forgot about Kong as soon as it was convenient.

Okay so Ragian blocked Devante or is at least claiming to have blocked Devante. Assuming Ragian is telling the truth (and if he's Scum like I believe he is then there's no reason to believe that he is telling the truth), then Devnte could not have performed the kill and cannot be the one who blocked Vot. If Rag is town then Dev is likely town though we cannot rule out Mafia Watcher/Goon entirely. If Rag is scum then Dev's alignment kind of gets thrown into Wifom hell as we can't tell a. If Ragian actually visited Dev and b. If Rag is lying, would he have claimed to role block Dev to try to garner the support of a townie or would he do it to try to take suspicion off of a scum buddy? Given all of that, I'm going to stick with my previous read of Devante and I have been feeling more town on him over the course of D2 and 3.

So that leaves Son!c, Fusi, Charle, Ragian and Kong. I've already stated my belief in the Kong-Ragian connection and I think the arguments brought forth about Charle make sense to me as well. I was interested in Son!c jumping on wagons quickly and his 50-50 post but his earlier analysis post was also very helpful. So I am back to leaning town on Son!c. I dont think I've mentioned Fusi too much as he's been inactive but generally posts long, helpful posts when he's been here. However, he has not really done anything that I could say proves townish intent.

So Ragian, Kong and Charle for scum. Though if I'm wrong about one of those 3 then probably Fusi as the 3rd by P.o.E. I'd feel most comfortable voting Kong followed by Ragian. Those are the two I feel most convinced are scum.

As far as those suggesting that me and Kong are a scum pair, I think my attitude towards him has proven otherwise. I've been critical of Kong since D1 and pushed him as my lynch candidate D3, going so far as to push against a possible developing Devante wagon to push back towards Kong. Maybe if Kong is the Goon then it would make sense for me to bus him but it does not make sense if Kong is a mafia power role and even if he was Goon, the connection is flimsy.

[SoN!c]

I am with you here Vot, think this is where we will find scum.

Vote Strike

So this is what im getting as kinda "preliminary results" on what everybody thinks (ofcourse i could be wrong but this got posted or hinted):

Strike: Ragian, Kong and Charle (or Fusi)
SoN!c: Ragian, Fusi and Charle
Ragian: Charle, Fusi, and Kong (or Strike)
Vot: Kong, Fusi and Strike
Fusi: He only said "Charle's list is pretty spot-on for my thoughts as well at this stage" and that list was Dev, Kong and Ragian at that time
King: Strike, Ragian and ?
Charle: Kong, Fusi and Strike
Kong: Fusi (last post), Ragian (his long post) + ?
Dev: ?


Still no answer why Fusi didn't sided with Traf on no lynch D1 as that is what i expected a town Fusi would do.
With Ragian thinking what im thinking on a scumcombo Fusi - Charle - (my idea is they are playing it with a clear scum strategy from the start deadlocking skulking Swang and pinning the "mislynch" on others) comes the Ragian glass of wine as the third scum (the lone wolf) in front of me..

And with that glass dancing Charle just keeps silent on all of that, and simply votes Strike like he didn't see it (as expected he is not voting Fusi - while it's very weird he even has put up Fusi's name like explained before - but in the end it was Fusi or Dev and he couldn't go for Dev if he posted he believes Ragian... Seemed a bit like Charle saw the checkmate in 3 just in time there so his best save out is to ignore it all.

So Strike is on 3 votes now so - if Charle is no scum Strike could be hammered.. - but if scum Charle is perhaps hoping for one more town vote as scum feels it's getting hot in here his fellow scum mates can hammer right after that..Yes, would be a rather dumb thing to do with a warned town so im warning here. And I dont see the need for a 3rd vote on Strike after Vot asking to cool down on that so this Charle post sounds real scummy either way as it was placed on a unwarned town and without further explanation.

Final waltz of the wine glass in front of me is answering the question "would a town Ragian wanted me in here subbing Pix or a scum Ragian?"

If he was scum he'd know that it would make me look town as only a vanilla pixar would want to be subbed. And the game was dead sort of speak, town clueless, now it's back alive and what a great mystery it is. thats one hell of a scum gamble?? Why would you do that when winning?

Also Ragian gets named 6 times in people's scum list and i think that's too high of a number for the lone wolf theory to be correct?. I just don't know but we better use the time we still have before deadline to keep searching

Unvote while waiting on Fusi

A Fusi - Strike combo would be "scum maxed out" sort of speaking with Charle the middle man go between. But in all sceario's Fusi is the spider in the web and Charle is his wingman..

Meeting Ragian in the middle here as it should not matter one iota.

@Charle: feel free to comment / defend any time, more then happy to buy you a pair of glasses

[Charle]

Unvote

Waiting for Fusi's reply. I must say, I am very confused at the moment. I like Strike's post and if it is not Strike, then what is left on my books are:

Fusi, Kong, Dev and Ragian. Rag as scum, could have blocked dev just for the hell of it, they know they will block nothing and town has no PR left.

Most of us agree that Kong must be scum, it is the other two we do not agree. I am town, don't waste a day on me please guys, we need to hit scum today. My suggestion is let's all go for Kong then?

[Kingm]

Unvote

Waiting for Fusi's reply. I must say, I am very confused at the moment. I like Strike's post and if it is not Strike, then what is left on my books are:

Fusi, Kong, Dev and Ragian. Rag as scum, could have blocked dev just for the hell of it, they know they will block nothing and town has no PR left.

Most of us agree that Kong must be scum, it is the other two we do not agree. I am town, don't waste a day on me please guys, we need to hit scum today. My suggestion is let's all go for Kong then?

Ok.
Unvote
Vote kong

[SoN!c]

Unvote

Most of us agree that Kong must be scum,..

According to last posts and hints this is the list (before King switched to Kong following you):

Strike: Ragian, Kong and Charle (or Fusi)
SoN!c: Ragian, Fusi and Charle
Ragian: Charle, Fusi, and Kong (or Strike)
Vot: Kong, Fusi and Strike
Fusi: He only said "Charle's list is pretty spot-on for my thoughts as well at this stage" and that list was Dev, Kong and Ragian at that time
King: Strike, Ragian and ?
Charle: Kong, Fusi and Strike
Kong: Fusi (last post), Ragian (his long post) + ?
Dev: ?

Ragian gets named 5 times but most agree on Fusi (5,5). He gets Kong, Charle, Vot, Ragian, me and Strike as 4th choice by POE..

Kong and Strike are both at 4, Kong gets Charle, Vot, Fusi and Strike behind him so again strange why you prefer Kong over Fusi based "on what most agree".

"On what most agree" is clearly Fusi and not Kong at the time of your post.

And also : You came up with Kong, Fusi and Strike and Vot posted he kinda-sorta agrees and likes the idea that is why i used same 3 names for him on the list, and now you say you follow Vot "I am with you here Vot, think this is where we will find scum."

So who is following who here?

[SoN!c]

And Charle,

This is what PMC said in this game (mafia night killed):

pmchugh wrote:
If I had to pick scum right now I would say fusi/kong/charle.

You responded with "Why fusi?" Not with "why me?"

Also PMC said this:

pmchugh wrote:
I honestly feel charle is a much better target than either of the voted players. Nothing has changed my mind. When we were scum together he would make a little plan of who he was going to accuse in scum chat and then go act on it the next day. Last game as town he did not do that. I am his target this game.

PMC was absolutely right on the money i believe. You did just that all game long here - you did not get town behind you on PMC so he was taken care of by nightkill - he was getting to close

I still think we are going to find something between Swang, PMC and Ragian and all mostly because of the end play of Day 1.

..and everytime when the lynchtarget flipped town you said "oh well, im confused" and you went straith onto the next target. You also wanted the 3-shot tracker to reveal himself

Always "certain we are going to hit something between those three", once you slipped up saying, "i wonder who will replace Max in the dirty trio" (before Max flipped town) because that was how you were playing it in your head (as scum)

who will then take up his spot in the dirty trio??

I am happy to change vote to Kong as well, we are going to hit something between those three, that's for sure (voting Max and saying its Max, Kong and Ragian)

while Max was the target just like now your not slotting in Fusi's name for real...
...while Fusi said: So that leaves 3 players who all have a pretty high likelihood of being Scum to me: Max, Dev, and Ragian. (Fusi left out Kong for convenient reasons because Max was the scum targem to get lynched there)

Fusi started the wagon on Swang, you started the wagon on Max

---

This is what LC said right before he got killed:
But what roused my suspicions was the players posting early on that they couldn't see any other outcome D2 than a Swang lynch.
It was sort of preparing the groundwork for a mislynch on Swang - I thought.


famous last words of LC (night killed) - was that the reason? Because that groundwork was done by you and Fusi

---

Fusi/Charle and a 3rd - im even starting to think PMC was right because Kong can be slotted in perfectly and you guys wanna bus him at this stage as he is expendable now in order to win it (feeling the heat)

Masterscumteam fusi/kong/charle would do just that

I think we have our 3 scum names so i think the game is played.

Explaining the mafia nightkills here:

PMC got killed because he was thinking Charle and Charle was thinking he got too close once already, Traf got killed because Fusi knew he'd see through him sooner or later and LC got wacked because of his "preparing the groundwork on Swang" post.

DDS was a lucky lynch (because he got 4 town votes; the same as Swang, so kong jumped on that one as last (fifth) player meaning you and Fusi could go for Swang again the next day without getting suspicious)..

Swang and Max are the 2 targets Charle chose just like PMC said "scum Charle would make a little plan of who he was going to accuse in scum chat and then go act on it the next day" because both of them (Swang and Max) are good scum Frame targets because of their known playstyle.

Only one way to know for sure and to end this madness :


Vote Charle (or Fusi)

[Charle]

I said my few cents there Sonic, believe me, you are making a huuuuuggggee mistake, we need to hit scum today and you are not helping us at all.

My scum list are Fusi, Kong and Ragian. I will vote for any of those, when town decides who.