Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[rishaed]

Mod Note: Prodding Streaker and Whatsausage.

[HotShot53]

Vote Count:

Hotshot53 (5) - mtamburini, Storrzerg, ArmyofGod, Crasp, Strikewolf
Storrzerg (2) - Hotshot53, Pancakemix

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is the 21st.

Ah, not sure why I thought the deadline was tomorrow. So there are still a few more days left.

Btw, there are only 15 alive, so I assume it only takes 8 to lynch... which puts me at L-3...

[rishaed]

You are correct. Apologies for the mixup.

[StorrZerg]

Vote Count:

Hotshot53 (5) - mtamburini, Storrzerg, ArmyofGod, Crasp, Strikewolf
Storrzerg (2) - Hotshot53, Pancakemix

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is the 21st.

Ah, not sure why I thought the deadline was tomorrow. So there are still a few more days left.

Btw, there are only 15 alive, so I assume it only takes 8 to lynch... which puts me at L-3...

is this you implying your not going to do anything unless someone else votes you?

[UltrasPlot]

Ok... just because we're looking at Storr v Hotshot right now I'm going to bring up something that could in fact be possible but is not relevant to the case.

We have two people we're treating as relatively clean right now: myself and Zivel. I'm going to analyze Zivel and whether or not he could indeed be scum. (Note that this is NOT an FoS, just a different point of view.)

- Zivel was a proponent of the Ultra wagon early D1.
- Zivel cc'd Lover first, but does this leave him clean?
- Indeed, he may well have been trying to force a lynch on me with little to no risk.
- I may well have been saved by dd's cc, from a different point of view.
- Storr has been a big proponent of Zivel being clean on this basis, and for all we know he could well be mafia.

Therefore, I believe Zivel's orientation should not be solid as town, rather leaning town if Hotshot is indeed a mislynch. Looking back at dd's cc, Romeo is such an obvious character that no self-respecting mafia would use... although this is speculation. This is not an FoS on Zivel, rather an analysis on a point many have considered moot.

[StorrZerg]

Ok... just because we're looking at Storr v Hotshot right now I'm going to bring up something that could in fact be possible but is not relevant to the case.

We have two people we're treating as relatively clean right now: myself and Zivel. I'm going to analyze Zivel and whether or not he could indeed be scum. (Note that this is NOT an FoS, just a different point of view.)

- Zivel was a proponent of the Ultra wagon early D1.
- Zivel cc'd Lover first, but does this leave him clean?
- Indeed, he may well have been trying to force a lynch on me with little to no risk.
- I may well have been saved by dd's cc, from a different point of view.
- Storr has been a big proponent of Zivel being clean on this basis, and for all we know he could well be mafia.

Therefore, I believe Zivel's orientation should not be solid as town, rather leaning town if Hotshot is indeed a mislynch. Looking back at dd's cc, Romeo is such an obvious character that no self-respecting mafia would use... although this is speculation. This is not an FoS on Zivel, rather an analysis on a point many have considered moot.

anytime you want to vote hotshot so we can progress the game...

I made a read on zivel, the least you could do with bringing up this suspicion, would be to analyze that post i made. Either way with your logic, hotshot is town reading zivel....

[HotShot53]

Vote Count:

Hotshot53 (5) - mtamburini, Storrzerg, ArmyofGod, Crasp, Strikewolf
Storrzerg (2) - Hotshot53, Pancakemix

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is the 21st.

Ah, not sure why I thought the deadline was tomorrow. So there are still a few more days left.

Btw, there are only 15 alive, so I assume it only takes 8 to lynch... which puts me at L-3...

is this you implying your not going to do anything unless someone else votes you?

I won't be claiming without another vote, or until it gets closer to the deadline. Why should I, when you won't even admit that you don't actually have a result on me, and were just pretending to to see how I'd react or was trying to get people to vote me to force me to claim? I doubt scum would expect me to get investigated last night, so I doubt I was framed (if there is a framer), which means you shouldn't have an investigation result showing scum on me. If you say you do, I probably will be lynched, but I then expect you to be shot/lynched tonight/tomorrow for lying.

[anamainiacks]

Well since Storr is softclaiming that he has night information, and HotShot still isn't budging, maybe putting him at L-2 would help.

Vote HotShot53.

I must say I'm surprised at Storr's change in his read of strike wolf though.

FP'ed by Ultras, Storr, HotShot.

[anamainiacks]

- Zivel cc'd Lover first, but does this leave him clean?
- Indeed, he may well have been trying to force a lynch on me with little to no risk.

I think the town read on him is because a scum choosing to CC Lover, when he knows that you and virus were lovers, draws attention to himself, and puts him at high risk for lynch on D2, seeing as his CC would've been the one that caused your lynch. So the fact that he CC'ed first without knowing there was a 3rd pair of lovers does make him a strong town read at this point, IMO.

I doubt scum would expect me to get investigated last night, so I doubt I was framed (if there is a framer), which means you shouldn't have an investigation result showing scum on me.

Don't cops often investigate people they find it hard to get reads on? With your generally low inactivity on D1, I think that would actually make you a good investigation target.

[pancakemix]

Be specific. I will compare the 2 examples. As for your case today, what case? Its a new day, I'm sure you can take the time to readdress your issues. Not to mention i responded to strike wolfs case, the least you could do would be to comment on that as well. Not to mention i gave reasons yesterday for not continuing to pressure you, do you recall any of them... Am i full of shit? does it come from a town trying to do the right thing? What?

Maybe the whole "I'm really pressed for time" thing didn't resonate with you. We could piss at each other all day with he said/he said, but until one of us digs something out of the past, it won't happen. I'm not the one who's on here all hours. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Furthest from the truth, i had almost no contact with hotshot day 1. How can you make such a statement like this as fact, when I never pushed him. Thanks for bringing up a recent game that hotshot was town in, and how he acted. Your right, that is deff on the more extreme position of hotshot, but my case still stands. hotshot isn't playing like a townie, and you have just admitted to it right now. Stop being stubborn with your case on me, and actually read into hotshot, and comment on the other points people are making about his inconsistencies.

That's straight up false. You definitely made a comment about HS being less than active D!, and that's enough to qualify as "harping" for my purposes. As for HotShot's play, there's a significant difference between what is typical of a player and what is inherently scummy. I will say this: there are points to be made about HotShot. People are making them (yes, I read ahead this time). You are the one furthest from making them. "LYNCH NOW PLOX" is not a push worth even looking at. This was evident when mtam did it yesterday and and it's evident now. And since you would be the one to suggest we look at more than one case during a day, I have no problem keeping my vote right where it is.

Am i not doing that? am i not bitching and moaning about people not commenting about hotshot? (o wait i am) Did i not remark that there is little point to keep conversing with only hotshot, and how i would really love to talk to other people about hotshot. (as for those that have started to comment on hotshot, ill be getting to them at some point today)

Again, it feels like all you've been saying is "Lynch HotShot". Not read, analyze, comment. Lynch. That is scummy.

Just finished reading the last five or so pages, my brain is a bit fried thanks to all the back and forth split-quote responses. I agree with pcm, please stop using the colours sequentially. In addition to the quote="name" technique, I suggest you just cut down the quote to the relevant bit.

Thank you.

Storr, if you thought strike was being weak/vague, why didn't you ask for more clarity instead of just marking him scum? Also, why put him down as a "null" read and recommend he be shot in the same breath? And why no explanation of WHY you read him that way, even when asked? These are things that leave you looking scummy to a T, and yet all we keep getting is:

anytime you want to vote hotshot so we can progress the game...

This is bullshit from anyone, but it's especially bullshit coming from you. Again, there are legitimate points against HS, but there's zero reason to move away from you.

UltrasPlot wrote:
ebwop

FOS Storr for not showing the information when it was a matter of ctrl+c and ctrl+v...
This push on hotshot is getting unnerving.

I advise you all not to vote hotshot until storr comes out and gives his explanation.

vote hotshot

Inconsistent much?

I don't understand how you screw up quoting people this much.

@everyone who seems to only have half-grasped what is going on today: This is annoying. enough said. I am reading from behind most of the time and mostly only once through. I don't see why I seem to have a better grasp of what is going on in the game then several people who seem to be more active than I am right now.

Name some names. Can't hurt.

Don't cops often investigate people they find it hard to get reads on? With your generally low inactivity on D1, I think that would actually make you a good investigation target.

But not a good framing target, which I think is a more pertinent point.

Claim teim for HS, I guess.

[StorrZerg]

Maybe the whole "I'm really pressed for time" thing didn't resonate with you. We could piss at each other all day with he said/he said, but until one of us digs something out of the past, it won't happen. I'm not the one who's on here all hours. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

your the one trying to push me for a lynch, so its your job. So, no i will not aid you in pressing for my lynch. As for the difference in time spent playing this game, I'll damn well spend it how i want to, So i suggest you be do a better job with your focus on the game, getting out key points you want discussed. Reinforcing real reasons as to why you think i'm scum, rather than attacking 1 liners, and waiting for me to "dig stuff up for you"

That's straight up false. You definitely made a comment about HS being less than active D!, and that's enough to qualify as "harping" for my purposes. As for HotShot's play, there's a significant difference between what is typical of a player and what is inherently scummy. I will say this: there are points to be made about HotShot. People are making them (yes, I read ahead this time). You are the one furthest from making them. "LYNCH NOW PLOX" is not a push worth even looking at. This was evident when mtam did it yesterday and and it's evident now. And since you would be the one to suggest we look at more than one case during a day, I have no problem keeping my vote right where it is.

Its not false, its relative. I had far more contact with virus, ultra, you, strike, zivel, aage, mtamb... etc... And yes, i made a comment about him. Did i follow up with him? Did i "bully him less" since he sheeped my virus vote? (hmm maybe thats something...)
as far as my "push now" comments, i've all ready stated my case at the time, and people had not been talking to me regarding hotshot. So yes, i'm applying more pressure in a "bully" like approach. So, it honestly doesn't matter if you like my case or not, if you end up liking the cases that others are bringing against hotshot, which are brought against hotshot BECAUSE of me. So while you keep taking like this and not backing up statements, then i will continue calling you scummy, for making blanket statements and not actually showcasing what you mean.

Again, it feels like all you've been saying is "Lynch HotShot". Not read, analyze, comment. Lynch. That is scummy.

I Made my case, several people have made cases against hotshot, till you comment on those cases directly, this comment means absolutely nothing. Considering I did make a case, which 100% involved me reading hotshots posts, posting my analysis of the situation, commenting on it, and encouraging people to comment on the situation, and calling for a lynch. Specially with his latest response, which imo should be addressed by aage. Since he responded to aage, i'm all ready certain that aage will be pretty unsatisfied with the responses, but i'm all ready very biased at this point, so the further emphasis of my opinion really doesn't change much.

This "nitpicking" statement if anything indicates that you are really not following the situation with hotshot, nor are you caring about my arguments because 1. your extremely biased and nothing i do/say will change your mind unless its a "forced change" that you have to accept regardless of your alignment, or you are scum so you purposely are doing this to keep casting doubt on me, to keep pushing me down.

Storr, if you thought strike was being weak/vague, why didn't you ask for more clarity instead of just marking him scum? Also, why put him down as a "null" read and recommend he be shot in the same breath? And why no explanation of WHY you read him that way, even when asked? These are things that leave you looking scummy to a T, and yet all we keep getting is:

I did ask for more clarity. And your not actually explaining why what i'm doing is scummy. I've had a history with delaying reads. And you can't prove thats scummy. Since each time i've given my read, and its never been the case that "storr deff sheeped that other person" o "storr was deff piggy backing off someone else" its very clear i have my own motivation, and my own drive, and my own reads. I generally always explain why something changed, why something happens. Not to mention, i've all ready given reason WHY i'm not addressing strike wolf right now, I have business lynching hotshot right now.

Below is me asking for clarity. This is a clear call out on what strike wolf said, in response to myself being scum, and to what he thought of the hotshot situation.

I can't defend anything strike has just said, since everything he said is "vague and non specific"

I can't continue to pressure hotshot, because he doesn't talk about the points against hotshot, what he liked, what he didn't like. he doesn't continue driving discussion on that end.

Strike seems to have forgotten that i was pushing anark before he went inactive...

This is bullshit from anyone, but it's especially bullshit coming from you. Again, there are legitimate points against HS, but there's zero reason to move away from you.

This is an over reaction from you on something that shouldn't be causing this much "outrage" and "damnation"

As for hotshot, you admit there are good points against him, yet you haven't actually said who made good points. And what points those are. Instead, we have blanket statement form you stating that "EVERYTHING" i'm doing regarding hotshot is bad. Its very easy, from these statements to think you have an incredibly huge bias against me, since you are not actually explaining yourself.

There are plenty of reasons to move away from me, 1 just happens to be because i'm town, and i'm actually trying to find scum, and i'm actually "controlling" town in a manner to get information out. yes my play is very selfish, and i have my own agenda, the issue becomes why i'm doing it, and figuring out my alignment. 2. I'm playing very transparent, i'm explaining everything thats going on in my mind, is it always at the time people want it? sometimes no. 3. I've basically soft claimed something, and you have made no comment on that.

As for hotshot, you admit there are good points against him, yet you haven't actually said who made good points. and what points those are. Instead, we have blanket statement form you stating that EVERYTHING i'm doing regarding hotshot is bad. Its very easy, from these statements to think you have an incredibly huge bias against me, since you are not actually explaining yourself.

[StorrZerg]

Vote Count:

Hotshot53 (5) - mtamburini, Storrzerg, ArmyofGod, Crasp, Strikewolf
Storrzerg (2) - Hotshot53, Pancakemix

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is the 21st.

Ah, not sure why I thought the deadline was tomorrow. So there are still a few more days left.

Btw, there are only 15 alive, so I assume it only takes 8 to lynch... which puts me at L-3...

is this you implying your not going to do anything unless someone else votes you?

I won't be claiming without another vote, or until it gets closer to the deadline. Why should I, when you won't even admit that you don't actually have a result on me, and were just pretending to to see how I'd react or was trying to get people to vote me to force me to claim? I doubt scum would expect me to get investigated last night, so I doubt I was framed (if there is a framer), which means you shouldn't have an investigation result showing scum on me. If you say you do, I probably will be lynched, but I then expect you to be shot/lynched tonight/tomorrow for lying.

L-2.
As for "waiting till closer to the deadline" what do you expect to happen till then? Do you expect the game to come to a standstill? atm it seems you are avoiding giving 2 detailed town reads. I can understand the avoidance of claiming, yet you are avoiding defending yourself.

[UltrasPlot]

Hotshot, please claim before I vote you. You have two hours.

[StorrZerg]

Hotshot, please claim before I vote you. You have two hours.

pressure is good, but he might not be around atm... We don't know if there are people with hidden votes, extra votes, etc. I'd consider extending the time 12 hours / giving him a firmer deadline when you know he is around.

[UltrasPlot]

Well whoever hammers at -1 before he claims is likely mafia so we have a shot + lynch target for tonight/tomorrow...

[StorrZerg]

Well whoever hammers at -1 before he claims is likely mafia so we have a shot + lynch target for tonight/tomorrow...

i think you miss my point. It could be a hidden vote, IE you won't know... IE, you would look like the hammer...

[aage]

I've reread the posts of Day 2 up to now, and I must say that some people *cough*ultra*cough* are just totally ignoring or misreading Storr's posts and accusing him of shit he didn't say. "Please put all your accusations into one post"? Please. Am I the only one that actually read the posts with the blue and the green and the red and the AARGH...?

Other than that, I don't see how his play for this day is different than his play for D1, other than that nobody responds to him any more.

Am i not doing that? am i not bitching and moaning about people not commenting about hotshot? (o wait i am) Did i not remark that there is little point to keep conversing with only hotshot, and how i would really love to talk to other people about hotshot. (as for those that have started to comment on hotshot, ill be getting to them at some point today)

Again, it feels like all you've been saying is "Lynch HotShot". Not read, analyze, comment. Lynch. That is scummy.

Actually in the quote you put above it, Storr was asking for comments. He's been asking for comments all day, and he's been asking for votes after that. I don't think I've read the phrase "Lynch HotShot" in his posts more than twice.

Response to HotShot in spoiler to avoid unreadable lengthy multi-quote post.

Spoiler

First off - the whole affair between Storr and HotShot started off with Storr saying someone mentioned HotShot's name, and saying HS was a potential lynching candidate. He asked for comments a dozen times but nobody responded until at long last he actually posted his case. Only after that did HS accuse him of being scum. This is important because HS didn't consider Storr as scum before Storr posted the case - he admitted to this in a recent post. Why Storr's posts seem scummy now, we don't know.

Yes Storr you are correct, I am not at all satisfied with the reply.
I won't respond to all bits because some are just irrelevant.

6.aage - lean town
9.Zivel - town sounding posts
10.Whatsausage - Neutral to lean town
12.Anamainiacks - lean town
16.Strikewolf - Leaning town

= town because multiple and/or extensive "town sounding" posts (why? when? which? does it hurt to be specific?), Zivel being a slight exception because of the lover-affair. Note how he uses pretty much the same phrase for each of us.
The phrase "I agree with most of his posts" has been used more often concerning me, and it makes me wonder which posts are "most". Apparently my awesome pro-town posts have cancelled out my anti-town posts but you decide not to tell me which they are. How am I (or anyone) supposed to believe you then?

If I am making comments on one person, yes, I could include the specific quotes... but when providing a read on everyone, I did not have the time to provide quotes for everyone. Also, that would have made a 5 page paper that no-one would have actually been able to read in detail anyway without spending an hour or two of reading.

So why don't you provide that instead? Storr asked you for reads on two people... I know it's not 'one person' like you asked, but it's close enough.
I also didn't say you should put in five thousand quotes, but referencing a certain discussion or a remark would help; without actually referencing anything specific, your read isn't worth much... Especially since you were so on the wall when discussing your lack of town reads with Storr a few pages back. On Day 1, you didn't have any town read that you would defend. On Day 2, Yay, everyone is town! Except Storr. It's the change of heart that sets me off.

14.dd515087 - coin flip

=neutral because... idk? Is he neutral? Or is this no read at all...?

Neutral meaning I have no idea, I can make logical arguments for both sides of the fence, and I don't know which side to go on.

Oh, so of ALL the players in the game you are uncertain ONLY about a claimed lover? But the rest of us are all "leaning town" (Except, obviously, Storr)? I find it fishy that you manage label so many people town but don't have an opinion on a claimed role who posts regularly.

13.Crasp - leaning scum
15.Anarkistsdream replaced by AoG 2.0 - neutral to leaning scum

= scum because "few posts" (see TFO read - is AoG behaving differently from AoG1.0? Imo no, so why does that make him scum this time? Or do you just wanna lynch all inactives first?)

This slight scum read is more based on Nark day 1 than AoG 2.0. AoG 2.0 hasn't done anything to make me think he is very towny today to change the read though. (And if you've ever played with me, on day 1 & 2 my default if I have no scum reads is to go for inactives... scummarizing is an effective strategy, so it either A. finds scum or B. makes people more active)

Okay, now comment on Crasp too? He made enough posts not to be considered inactive. You said he lacked content - here's a search query.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/search ... rasp&ch=-1
You mentioned going for inactives on Day 1 too, I recall. AoG is currently the only one - kind of an easy target. As was said at the start of the day.
Nark's play during D1 was fishy, I agree, but it's minor compared to the shit that has been going down since then. Apparently, though, it has changed your reads on everyone else into 'town'.

7.Storrzerg - Didn't like how he wanted to lynch virus over ultra day 1, or his recommending to shoot mtam today. After reading his pressure on PCM day 1, didn't like it any more than I liked his pressure on me today. Didn't like how he tried to pit streaker and me against each other. In my reading back, it's surprising how many people have FOS'd him for various reasons. I'd lean scum as of now, it's possible it's from OMGUS feeling, but there are enough other things he's done that I think I would be leaning scum outside of his case on me.

= scum because a) he pressures people, b) he comes up with a way to make both of Ultra's shots hit thin air and c) many people FoS'd him for "various reasons". I'll be reading back to find those.
I wanted to lynch Virus over Ultra too, if you recall.

But in the end you saw that the pro-towny plan was ultra over virus, and you unvoted virus.

No. I unvoted because nobody seemed to care for my argument, and I didn't want to vote uselessly. And voting Ultra was a double-edged pro-towny plan. You should understand that I favour anti-mafia over pro-towny. For instance, I also believe Ultra shouldn't use his vig shots on irrelevant targets tonight, I think he should shoot to kill. Everyone seems obsessed with limiting the Town's killing potential, while that seems detrimental to me.

His pressure on pcm yesterday was fine, and provided us with useful info on who is the antagoniser. Pcm seems quite convinced that Storr is the root of all evil. Storr keeps his options open. How does that translate to "I didnt like his pressure"? What is wrong with pressuring anyone? Why do you think pressuring you is bad? (other than "it's you")

I agree pressure is good, but the way storr was doing it, repeating the same points even though they were answered, I didn't like. He has been acting more like a bully than a detective, such as his badgering people to vote whomever he is voting, and saying they are stupid/distracting if they do anything else.

Interesting is that you say "there are enough other things he's done", but those things haven't lead to you leaning scum before iirc.
Please explain why Storr's posts are not 'towny' and my/Strike's/Ani's/WS's/Zivel's posts are. What is the criterion that makes you distinguish?

All in all the only active player HotShot seems to be capable of attacking is Storr.

I was neutral on storr before, he annoyed me day 1 (as he usually does), but it was only upon re-reading day 1 combined with his day 2 that I decided he was more on the scum side and not just his normal annoying, in a large part to his insistently arguing the virus over ultra lynch, and ignoring (and not even replying to) my reasoning as to why not to shoot mtam. That happened at the end of day 1 and day 2, and by then storr had made a case on me, so I couldn't make a return case until after I had defended myself from his case.

FP'd 5 times by storr/strike wolf.

1st Virus over Ultra would have been a good call. Lynching neither was better, but Storr saying that Virus should 100% be lynched over Ultra speaks very pro-town to me.
2nd Thinking that shooting Mtam will interfere with his action is dumb imo.
3rd You are correct in saying that you only decided he was scum after he posted his case on you... a case he had been announcing for the better part of that day thus far. Calling him scum now reeks of OMGUS for its timing. He had been asking people to read your posts again - why did you wait for his actual case to reread this stuff and reformulate your opinion?


In summation
Why Storr, why now?
- Storr, because Storr is the guy that's posted a case on you that you disagree with (I don't see any other reason, sorry), and we wouldn't want to antagonise anyone that is posting actively.
- Now, because Storr's previous lines of inquiry didn't harm HotShot.

If you feel you need more pressure, I'll happily put you on L-1 but I think you get the message.

[HotShot53]

Don't cops often investigate people they find it hard to get reads on? With your generally low inactivity on D1, I think that would actually make you a good investigation target.

But not a good framing target, which I think is a more pertinent point.

Claim teim for HS, I guess.

Exactly what I was saying, I doubt I was framed, so I know storr is just making up the investigation. I'd really like to get a hard claim on whatever it is he says he is soft claiming now.

But his bullying and fake implications convinced enough people apparently, so I guess I have to claim now. I am Karashima Town Jailkeeper. Based on the Akaku Saku Koe manga apparently. I jailkept Mtam night 1, since I thought he was implying he was dd's lover with his "I'll kill myself if dd is lynched" statement, and I figured if he was town and scum read it the same they could target him to kill a 2 for 1. (Might have worked too, since scum might not have made a kill last night if ultra was shot by a vig). And if Mtam was scum (which I thought was possible at that point), then I would be roleblocking him.

[StorrZerg]

thank you for the claim.

It isn't just my bully style play, you have @aage comments to look at.
I'm still waiting for 2 more indepth town reads, explaining why those 2 people are town, and what they have done that you find townie.

[StorrZerg]

@zivel i have some comments for you within 24 hours. possibly let me know when you have free time and are online on the forum, so we can converse at that time thanks in advance.

[HotShot53]

[/quote]

Response to HotShot in spoiler to avoid unreadable lengthy multi-quote post.

And responses to responses in the same format

Spoiler

First off - the whole affair between Storr and HotShot started off with Storr saying someone mentioned HotShot's name, and saying HS was a potential lynching candidate. He asked for comments a dozen times but nobody responded until at long last he actually posted his case. Only after that did HS accuse him of being scum. This is important because HS didn't consider Storr as scum before Storr posted the case - he admitted to this in a recent post. Why Storr's posts seem scummy now, we don't know.

Yes Storr you are correct, I am not at all satisfied with the reply.
I won't respond to all bits because some are just irrelevant.

6.aage - lean town
9.Zivel - town sounding posts
10.Whatsausage - Neutral to lean town
12.Anamainiacks - lean town
16.Strikewolf - Leaning town

= town because multiple and/or extensive "town sounding" posts (why? when? which? does it hurt to be specific?), Zivel being a slight exception because of the lover-affair. Note how he uses pretty much the same phrase for each of us.
The phrase "I agree with most of his posts" has been used more often concerning me, and it makes me wonder which posts are "most". Apparently my awesome pro-town posts have cancelled out my anti-town posts but you decide not to tell me which they are. How am I (or anyone) supposed to believe you then?

If I am making comments on one person, yes, I could include the specific quotes... but when providing a read on everyone, I did not have the time to provide quotes for everyone. Also, that would have made a 5 page paper that no-one would have actually been able to read in detail anyway without spending an hour or two of reading.

So why don't you provide that instead? Storr asked you for reads on two people... I know it's not 'one person' like you asked, but it's close enough.
I also didn't say you should put in five thousand quotes, but referencing a certain discussion or a remark would help; without actually referencing anything specific, your read isn't worth much... Especially since you were so on the wall when discussing your lack of town reads with Storr a few pages back. On Day 1, you didn't have any town read that you would defend. On Day 2, Yay, everyone is town! Except Storr. It's the change of heart that sets me off.

It's not necessarily one or two quotes that scream town on a given person usually, it's the overall impression from reading 10-15 of their posts all in a row. Before going back and reading all of their posts at once, I didn't have much impression either way on most people, it was reading all their posts over a 2 week period all at once that gave me the read. Giving 2 in-depth town reads won't change storr's opinion on me I'm sure, and I don't have the time tonight, but I'll try to make an in-depth town read or two tomorrow for whatever it's worth

14.dd515087 - coin flip

=neutral because... idk? Is he neutral? Or is this no read at all...?

Neutral meaning I have no idea, I can make logical arguments for both sides of the fence, and I don't know which side to go on.

Oh, so of ALL the players in the game you are uncertain ONLY about a claimed lover? But the rest of us are all "leaning town" (Except, obviously, Storr)? I find it fishy that you manage label so many people town but don't have an opinion on a claimed role who posts regularly.

I said why I didn't know which way to turn on him. His name claim doesn't make sense when compared to everyone else's, and his counter-counter claim could be made either by a town or a scum. And I do have 2 other slight scum reads and another neutral read, he's not the only one other than storr that isn't leaning town. I'm not saying to lynch or shoot him, I'm just not positive about him.

13.Crasp - leaning scum
15.Anarkistsdream replaced by AoG 2.0 - neutral to leaning scum

= scum because "few posts" (see TFO read - is AoG behaving differently from AoG1.0? Imo no, so why does that make him scum this time? Or do you just wanna lynch all inactives first?)

This slight scum read is more based on Nark day 1 than AoG 2.0. AoG 2.0 hasn't done anything to make me think he is very towny today to change the read though. (And if you've ever played with me, on day 1 & 2 my default if I have no scum reads is to go for inactives... scummarizing is an effective strategy, so it either A. finds scum or B. makes people more active)

Okay, now comment on Crasp too? He made enough posts not to be considered inactive. You said he lacked content - here's a search query.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/search ... rasp&ch=-1
You mentioned going for inactives on Day 1 too, I recall. AoG is currently the only one - kind of an easy target. As was said at the start of the day.
Nark's play during D1 was fishy, I agree, but it's minor compared to the shit that has been going down since then. Apparently, though, it has changed your reads on everyone else into 'town'.

So what has AoG 2.0 done to convince you that he is town? He hasn't done anything particularly towny to change my opinion of what Nark said day 1.

7.Storrzerg - Didn't like how he wanted to lynch virus over ultra day 1, or his recommending to shoot mtam today. After reading his pressure on PCM day 1, didn't like it any more than I liked his pressure on me today. Didn't like how he tried to pit streaker and me against each other. In my reading back, it's surprising how many people have FOS'd him for various reasons. I'd lean scum as of now, it's possible it's from OMGUS feeling, but there are enough other things he's done that I think I would be leaning scum outside of his case on me.

= scum because a) he pressures people, b) he comes up with a way to make both of Ultra's shots hit thin air and c) many people FoS'd him for "various reasons". I'll be reading back to find those.
I wanted to lynch Virus over Ultra too, if you recall.

But in the end you saw that the pro-towny plan was ultra over virus, and you unvoted virus.

No. I unvoted because nobody seemed to care for my argument, and I didn't want to vote uselessly. And voting Ultra was a double-edged pro-towny plan. You should understand that I favour anti-mafia over pro-towny. For instance, I also believe Ultra shouldn't use his vig shots on irrelevant targets tonight, I think he should shoot to kill. Everyone seems obsessed with limiting the Town's killing potential, while that seems detrimental to me.

To quote you exactly at the time

Sigh. I really believe you're both lying about your role... but I guess I'll go ahead and follow the pro-towny plan rather than the anti-mafia plan.
unvote
Not revoting to avoid quickhammer, seeing as Ultra voted himself....

Apparently either you stated your reason wrong then, or you forgot why you unvoted.

His pressure on pcm yesterday was fine, and provided us with useful info on who is the antagoniser. Pcm seems quite convinced that Storr is the root of all evil. Storr keeps his options open. How does that translate to "I didnt like his pressure"? What is wrong with pressuring anyone? Why do you think pressuring you is bad? (other than "it's you")

I agree pressure is good, but the way storr was doing it, repeating the same points even though they were answered, I didn't like. He has been acting more like a bully than a detective, such as his badgering people to vote whomever he is voting, and saying they are stupid/distracting if they do anything else.

Interesting is that you say "there are enough other things he's done", but those things haven't lead to you leaning scum before iirc.
Please explain why Storr's posts are not 'towny' and my/Strike's/Ani's/WS's/Zivel's posts are. What is the criterion that makes you distinguish?

All in all the only active player HotShot seems to be capable of attacking is Storr.

I was neutral on storr before, he annoyed me day 1 (as he usually does), but it was only upon re-reading day 1 combined with his day 2 that I decided he was more on the scum side and not just his normal annoying, in a large part to his insistently arguing the virus over ultra lynch, and ignoring (and not even replying to) my reasoning as to why not to shoot mtam. That happened at the end of day 1 and day 2, and by then storr had made a case on me, so I couldn't make a return case until after I had defended myself from his case.

FP'd 5 times by storr/strike wolf.

1st Virus over Ultra would have been a good call. Lynching neither was better, but Storr saying that Virus should 100% be lynched over Ultra speaks very pro-town to me.
2nd Thinking that shooting Mtam will interfere with his action is dumb imo.
3rd You are correct in saying that you only decided he was scum after he posted his case on you... a case he had been announcing for the better part of that day thus far. Calling him scum now reeks of OMGUS for its timing. He had been asking people to read your posts again - why did you wait for his actual case to reread this stuff and reformulate your opinion?

1st, why did you unvote virus then? Your stated reason at the time was that it was the pro-town thing to do even though you thought they were lying.
2nd, why do you think it wouldn't interfere with his role? Is it worth the risk? Since you say you don't want to waste shots anyway, you should doubly say to not shoot mtam.
3rd, if I made a case on him when he was just calling me out before his case, would you or anyone else thought it any less OMGUS? Other than AoG 2.0, no-one voted me because of his case, so it must not have been that great of a case.

In summation
Why Storr, why now?
- Storr, because Storr is the guy that's posted a case on you that you disagree with (I don't see any other reason, sorry), and we wouldn't want to antagonise anyone that is posting actively.
- Now, because Storr's previous lines of inquiry didn't harm HotShot.

If you feel you need more pressure, I'll happily put you on L-1 but I think you get the message.

Why storr, why now? Because now is when I spent the 2-3 hours needed to re-read everything, and couldn't find any better scum reads on anyone else. I really wanted to find a case on anyone else, since obviously people would accuse me of OMGUS for voting storr... but I couldn't find anything as scummy by anyone else.

[UltrasPlot]

Jailkeeping is indeed easy to prove... if you guys want to give up my vig shots he can jk me and see if more than one/two deaths occur... doubt that lynching hotshot is a great option rn...

[StorrZerg]

It's not necessarily one or two quotes that scream town on a given person usually, it's the overall impression from reading 10-15 of their posts all in a row. Before going back and reading all of their posts at once, I didn't have much impression either way on most people, it was reading all their posts over a 2 week period all at once that gave me the read. Giving 2 in-depth town reads won't change storr's opinion on me I'm sure, and I don't have the time tonight, but I'll try to make an in-depth town read or two tomorrow for whatever it's worth

While your right, in that i may or may not be that concerned. Other people are concerned, specially strike/pcm who are still hot pressed to have me lynched, will gladly take any opportunity you give them to damn me. I've "narrowed" your options to 4 people, i'm sure you can pick 2 from the group. You have the time, you don't see me screaming for your head right now.

@hotshot, why are you so quick to dismiss mtamburini as scum since you jailed him? Also, do you honestly believe tambo was shot?

[Zivel]

@zivel i have some comments for you within 24 hours. possibly let me know when you have free time and are online on the forum, so we can converse at that time thanks in advance.

Real life is nuts at the moment but I should be free in a couple of hours and will try and get a decent post out after then.

[StorrZerg]

@zivel i have some comments for you within 24 hours. possibly let me know when you have free time and are online on the forum, so we can converse at that time thanks in advance.

Real life is nuts at the moment but I should be free in a couple of hours and will try and get a decent post out after then.

Going to sleep right now. Lmk the next opening after