Gay marriage

[Neoteny]

Speaking of heterozygote advantage, (not really, but a similar concept) have you heard about the possible relationship between HIV resistance from descendants of plague survivors? It's interesting stuff.

read about this the other day, even though the principle was discovered in 1996.

a mutation in the CCR5 receptor gene (aka delta 32) makes it impossible for foreign bodies to enter human lymphocytes. people are that heterozygous to the mutation will be partially resistant where HIV (or the plague) will take over the immune system more slowly, giving more time for treatment and possible remission. people that are homozygous to the mutation are completely immune to the plague and HIV.

great stuff.

Bad assness.

in the edit i at least point out that i think hard sciences are the suck and than meaningless soft scienes are the awesome.

Yeah, yeah. To your credit, I would have much worse choices as filler classes without soc. I also would not have delved deeper into the Canadian perspective on terrorism. I'm surely a better person for it. Surely...

[got tonkaed]

after taking a class or two on deviance, i can tell you i am certainly not a better person for understanding our different approaches of understanding terrorism.

[Neoteny]

after taking a class or two on deviance, i can tell you i am certainly not a better person for understanding our different approaches of understanding terrorism.

I don't feel as bad then. Though Jean Cretien did have a way with words...

[tzor]

There IS evidence... from the wild kingdom, from farms, from studies of identical twins, etc. suggesting that homosexuality is at least partialy genetic.

I don't want to get overly nit picky, but identical twins share one more thing in addition to a common gene set; a common womb. Thus they will also receive the same hormonal levels during their formation. Hormones can have a significant impact on sexual development; in fact that is how genes stimulate sexual development in the first place through the manufacture of hormones.

For the record, I don't know if there is a gay gene and I don't care. It's like asking if there is a left handed gene. I do believe there is a gene that would be considered an anti-gay gene; almost guaranteed to discourage homosexual behavior in males except in the most depraved situations. That's the gene that promotes the growth of hemorrhoids.

[Neoteny]

There IS evidence... from the wild kingdom, from farms, from studies of identical twins, etc. suggesting that homosexuality is at least partialy genetic.

I don't want to get overly nit picky, but identical twins share one more thing in addition to a common gene set; a common womb. Thus they will also receive the same hormonal levels during their formation. Hormones can have a significant impact on sexual development; in fact that is how genes stimulate sexual development in the first place through the manufacture of hormones.

For the record, I don't know if there is a gay gene and I don't care. It's like asking if there is a left handed gene. I do believe there is a gene that would be considered an anti-gay gene; almost guaranteed to discourage homosexual behavior in males except in the most depraved situations. That's the gene that promotes the growth of hemorrhoids.

That's what I been sayin'!

[got tonkaed]

There IS evidence... from the wild kingdom, from farms, from studies of identical twins, etc. suggesting that homosexuality is at least partialy genetic.

I don't want to get overly nit picky, but identical twins share one more thing in addition to a common gene set; a common womb. Thus they will also receive the same hormonal levels during their formation. Hormones can have a significant impact on sexual development; in fact that is how genes stimulate sexual development in the first place through the manufacture of hormones.

For the record, I don't know if there is a gay gene and I don't care. It's like asking if there is a left handed gene. I do believe there is a gene that would be considered an anti-gay gene; almost guaranteed to discourage homosexual behavior in males except in the most depraved situations. That's the gene that promotes the growth of hemorrhoids.

bolded for the part that screams "thank you thank you, ill be here all week!"

[Napoleon Ier]

I still want evidence of this mythical "gay gene".

[spurgistan]

Just checking in, haven't given much of a go at this thread, but in my recollection (and Wikipedia, for what it's worth) homosexuality is, if reasonably uncommon, observed in animal species with rudimentary (bonobos) to no (dragonflies?) observable societies. So how then can we claim that homosexuality results from a defect in society, when we can see it occurring in animals that decidedly lack musical theater? Wouldn't this add some credence to the "nature" debate of "nature vs. nurture"? Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

[detlef]

I still want evidence of this mythical "gay gene".

Maybe then you can find the "good at math gene" or the "can run really fast gene" or any number of other things that one may be born predisposed to but can't be isolated to one on/off switch in our DNA.

[detlef]

Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

Well, then there's always that. I'm rather irritated that I even got sucked into the nature v nurture thing because, like you said, even if it is a choice, that's no reason to deny these people basic rights.

[Napoleon Ier]

Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

Well, then there's always that. I'm rather irritated that I even got sucked into the nature v nurture thing because, like you said, even if it is a choice, that's no reason to deny these people basic rights.

We're not. They can marry, just not other men.

Basic Rights have never traditionally included marriage either. Better luck next time, hillbilly.

[MeDeFe]

Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

Well, then there's always that. I'm rather irritated that I even got sucked into the nature v nurture thing because, like you said, even if it is a choice, that's no reason to deny these people basic rights.

Speaking of which, it wouldn't just be their right. It would be everyone's right to marry any consenting person without restriction of gender. ok, straight people would still not fall in love with each other and want to marry (although a platonic marriage with an other man has its appeals, just think of watching the telly ("romantic comedy" vs. action movie), or the lack of comments about having a night out with your buddies), but as things are their rights are as curtailed as the rights of gays. Most just don't notice it because they don't feel the need to exercise that part of their rights.

[got tonkaed]

Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

Well, then there's always that. I'm rather irritated that I even got sucked into the nature v nurture thing because, like you said, even if it is a choice, that's no reason to deny these people basic rights.

We're not. They can marry, just not other men.

Basic Rights have never traditionally included marriage either. Better luck next time, hillbilly.

under that line of thinking marriage certainly hasnt always been conferred rights either. Especially in its more recent adaptation marriage by choice.

Tradition is often not the best indicator for things one should and should not do.

[Neoteny]

I still want evidence of this mythical "gay gene".

I believe the gay gene locus is right next to the "minorities that can't do well on standardized tests" gene. But that's all hypothetical, of course.

[detlef]

Not that that argument should really have any bearing in basic human rights.

Well, then there's always that. I'm rather irritated that I even got sucked into the nature v nurture thing because, like you said, even if it is a choice, that's no reason to deny these people basic rights.

We're not. They can marry, just not other men.

Basic Rights have never traditionally included marriage either. Better luck next time, hillbilly.

Hillbilly, eh? Well, at least I'm not some spineless chickenshit who wants dubya to protect him from well dressed boogie men.

[Napoleon Ier]

Hillbilly, eh? Well, at least I'm not some spineless chickenshit who wants dubya to protect him from well dressed boogie men.

Touché.

[tzor]

I still want evidence of this mythical "gay gene".

If you do a DNA analysys, the gay gene shows up in pink. (With a feather boa.)

[Frigidus]

Basic Rights have never traditionally included marriage either. Better luck next time, hillbilly.

Actually, going as far back as the Romans, the four basic rights granted to citizens were the right to vote, the right to make contracts, the right to appeal, and the right to marriage. There isn't much more traditional than that.

[sam_levi_11]

if i was with the guy i fancied then id be annoyed at nopt being able to marry, whereas if i was with my ex gf, we were going to get married. so just because of their gender i cant marry them. what kind of society is it when people are descriminated because of something out of their control.

[Frigidus]

if i was with the guy i fancied then id be annoyed at nopt being able to marry, whereas if i was with my ex gf, we were going to get married. so just because of their gender i cant marry them. what kind of society is it when people are descriminated because of something out of their control.

Which is why those against gay marriage insist that people choose to be gay, or something that extent. You couldn't justify it otherwise.

[Nataki Yiro]

I give up on you guys. I quit responding and have just read the last three pages and most of you change you side over and over again...

Lame...

[got tonkaed]

I give up on you guys. I quit responding and have just read the last three pages and most of you change you side over and over again...

Lame...

Actually you dont respond to any of the posts i make which directly respond to posts you make in general. If youd like to actually discuss things, ive been attempting to do so, since you started posting in the thread.

[tzor]

Which is why those against gay marriage insist that people choose to be gay, or something that extent. You couldn't justify it otherwise.

I tend to favor the argument of "Free Will" myself. We all choose to be who and what we are every day of our lives and if we are not it is better to seek freedom even if it means the freedom to remain who we are. Then again I am generally in favor of gay marriage as a civil institute of rights. The notion of gay marriage from the moral and religious perspective I am generally not in favor of, but then again ever since civil authorities have been allowing decrees of divorce the both sacramental and civil marriage have gone their seperate ways. In the Roman Catholic tradition it is possible to be married in the eyes of the law but not in the sight of God and the Church. As Jesus said to the woman at the well, "You are right in saying, 'I do not have a husband.' For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true."

[Neoteny]

I give up on you guys. I quit responding and have just read the last three pages and most of you change you side over and over again...

Lame...

Actually you dont respond to any of the posts i make which directly respond to posts you make in general. If youd like to actually discuss things, ive been attempting to do so, since you started posting in the thread.

If it makes you feel better he didn't really respond to anyone, except for that wonderful study of genetics. Retarded genes...

[Iliad]

I give up on you guys. I quit responding and have just read the last three pages and most of you change you side over and over again...

Lame...

Actually you dont respond to any of the posts i make which directly respond to posts you make in general. If youd like to actually discuss things, ive been attempting to do so, since you started posting in the thread.

If it makes you feel better he didn't really respond to anyone, except for that wonderful study of genetics. Retarded genes...