Conquer Club

A.K.A. - The type you weren't TOLD to believe in.

For example: If your family was Lutheran and you are Lutheran, this thread is not intended for you to post your beliefs unless it has nothing to do with what you were preached to with.

No offense meant, but, I'd like to see what people have come to believe in on their own.
That and I'd like to discuss them.
*I will not steal ideas. I simply wish to hear your thoughts on reality as we know it and I will amend my own if your logic is completely sound to me.
On a side note, I do wish to compile a series of answers I seek over my life time. (A.K.A. - Questions, not actual answers.)

As for my own, I have several beliefs regarding reality as we know it...

• First, I see no reason to believe in a god. -I don't condemn people for believing that a god is out 'there', but a specific god with specific traits is, in my opinion, beyond extremely presumptuous. You cannot even begin to define such a 'being'. The arrogance of, specifically, three dominant religions in defining such a 'being' is astounding. (I am intrigued by many of the other gods, but I mock them as well.)
• Second, I believe that everything is ultimately predetermined. (A.K.A. - There is no free will... it is just an illusion.) [You will have to read my book I will come out with much later in life in order to hear the rest of what I have to say about this.]
• Third, I believe that the universe is infinitely large.[You will have to read my book I will come out with much later in life in order to hear the rest of what I have to say about this.]
• Fourth... [You will have to read my book I will come out with much later in life in order to hear ANY of what I have to say about this.]
• Fifth, based on my fourth belief stated, reincarnation is real. [You will have to read my book I will come out with much later in life in order to hear the rest of what I have to say about this.]

Try as you might to coax me into revealing the full extent of my philosophies, but, I will do my best to keep it from you... for now...

Phatscotty wrote:Introduction of the Year award

Sarcasm?
I'm not going to go back through 14514 topics to necro-bump a thread... if there is one such as this. (I'ma take a guess that there is... but w/e.)

My refutations are in my book...

...which will be coming out later in my life...

Hmm... No philosophy totally encompasses what I believe, but here's a few I've come to identify with:

- I'm a Christian but I am pretty lax/agnostic about it. I was raised as a devout fundamentalist Christian, but it was never forced on me, which is why I haven't become so scared of it as to become an atheist.

- Similarly, I consider myself center or maybe center right in politics, but my parents were traditional Republicans. Again, it was never forced upon me as a kid, which is why I'm not out rebelling, burning flags, advocating socialism, etc.

- Senior year of high school I was in a lit course, the type where there was a large list of books to read, and large books got more credit. I took home The Fountainhead over break (since it was large and worth a lot) and was hooked. Objectivism is fascinating and it brought some coherence to my previously scattered ideas about the world.

- I heard about Ron Paul and the Tea Party a year or two ago, through the Internet of course (it was rarely seen in the MSM). I was intrigued because the Republican party was too staunch for me. This too brought a voice to many of my ideas.

- Utilitarianism is a philosophy in the real sense... strangely enough, I learned about it from an essay question on an AP test. It seemed like an obvious way of looking at the world, but apparently it's not without controversy...

The majority of what I've learned has been through my own perceptions and thoughts, with some help from the World Wide Internets. I like to think that I'm a true freethinker, not indoctrinated in any way, but of course you'll only believe that if you agree with me.

Army of GOD wrote:My refutations are in my book...

...which will be coming out later in my life...

You're going to make a book in response to mine?

Maugena wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:My refutations are in my book...

...which will be coming out later in my life...

You're going to make a book in response to mine?

It's already made.

I just have to wait until you release yours so that I don't look like I'm arguing with myself.

Also, I know what all your opinions are about, but I can't give them out publicly, for your sake. =X

john9blue wrote:Hmm... No philosophy totally encompasses what I believe, but here's a few I've come to identify with:

- I'm a Christian but I am pretty lax/agnostic about it. I was raised as a devout fundamentalist Christian, but it was never forced on me, which is why I haven't become so scared of it as to become an atheist.

- Similarly, I consider myself center or maybe center right in politics, but my parents were traditional Republicans. Again, it was never forced upon me as a kid, which is why I'm not out rebelling, burning flags, advocating socialism, etc.

- Senior year of high school I was in a lit course, the type where there was a large list of books to read, and large books got more credit. I took home The Fountainhead over break (since it was large and worth a lot) and was hooked. Objectivism is fascinating and it brought some coherence to my previously scattered ideas about the world.

- I heard about Ron Paul and the Tea Party a year or two ago, through the Internet of course (it was rarely seen in the MSM). I was intrigued because the Republican party was too staunch for me. This too brought a voice to many of my ideas.

- Utilitarianism is a philosophy in the real sense... strangely enough, I learned about it from an essay question on an AP test. It seemed like an obvious way of looking at the world, but apparently it's not without controversy...

The majority of what I've learned has been through my own perceptions and thoughts, with some help from the World Wide Internets. I like to think that I'm a true freethinker, not indoctrinated in any way, but of course you'll only believe that if you agree with me.

Yeah, I'd hope that you don't live your life by a single philosophy. Honestly, I'd say you're closed-minded if you do. So kudos to you.

I didn't come to believe in there not being a god through my family attempting to make me conform. Turning atheist out of spite/fear is foolish.
It seems as though you're painting a picture that if these things were forced upon a person, the person would rebel or go berserk. (Well, upon a child.)
That's not always the case. In fact, I'd say that is hardly ever the case.

Objectivism-

• "Reality exists independent of consciousness." I agree with this.
  "Individual persons are in direct contact with reality through sensory perception." Yup.
  "Human beings can gain objective knowledge from perception through the process of concept formation and inductive and deductive logic." Yeah.
  "That the proper moral purpose of one's life is the pursuit of one's own happiness or rational self-interest." For the most part, yeah.
  The rest is... less important to me.

I don't know a whole lot about politics, so I won't go there with ya.
My main focus is what you think of reality anyway, not so much about the people in it or their views on how things should be run, for the most part.

Utilitarianism-
Well. Uh... I'll get back to you on that. I'm not really wanting to get into morality with this thread, but if someone posts something controversial having to do with morality, I might join in.

Army of GOD wrote:

Maugena wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:My refutations are in my book...

...which will be coming out later in my life...

You're going to make a book in response to mine?

It's already made.

I just have to wait until you release yours so that I don't look like I'm arguing with myself.

Also, I know what all your opinions are about, but I can't give them out publicly, for your sake. =X

:O
Lolk.

Sure, I just know a lot of people who lose faith in God or move to the left because they are sick of their traditionalist upbringing. I can see why they would do that, but on the other hand it's dumb to think that way. Not saying this applies to all atheists/liberals, just some.

The premise of this thread is nice btw, but sometimes I think that our beliefs are merely the sum of our experiences. Obvious influences such as parents may be easy to identify, but there are many more subtle ones such as one's environment and peers that may go unnoticed. I'd actually be pretty surprised if someone admitted that they believed something for no other reason than that they were TOLD to.

We all change our views from our parents. Its just that we do it in different ways and some people change, come back, etc.

In regards to the previous paragraph, though. A lot of people who rebel against Christianity to leap toward environmentalism, etc never really understood the Christain faith to begin with.

Bill Devall is perhaps the ultimate erm... person who puts other things above humans, I suppose is a reasonable way to put it. Anyway, I once talked to him about the extreme mideval asthetic tradition within Christianity.. monks who would sit on pillars so as not to disturb the microbes, etc. Anyway, he was aware, but 99% of his followers were not. And he certainly could not be bothered to inform them.

A lot of what conservatives put forward as "Christianity" really is not "Christianity" at all, it is modern culture wrapped up in religion. This is true for other religions in other areas (and times), but I am most familiar with it in Christianity.

Anyway, lest this get off topic further, I differ from my parents in my knowledge. But, the thing is my parents were already non-conformists. They neither fit terribly well with the "hippie radicals", nor the conservative "traditional" folks. So... it is hard for any change to be a true rebellion.

Is it possible to rebel against someone who encourages free-thought?

Timminz wrote:Is it possible to rebel against someone who encourages free-thought?

Sure, you become ultra-conservative. Explains a lot of the 80's, in fact.

Shit I believe that I done came to by my own damn self:

1. Magnets are fuckin' miracles.
2. Fuckin' pelican always be eating my cell phone, damn.
3. Fuckin' scientists be lyin' and makin' me pissed.
4. Fuckin' rainbows.

pimpdave wrote:1. Magnets are fuckin' miracles.

Seriously, what is up with magnets right? They aren't sticky or nothing.

pimpdave wrote:2. Fuckin' pelican always be eating my cell phone, damn.

It's like, that ain't food. The f*ck.

john9blue wrote:Hmm... No philosophy totally encompasses what I believe, but here's a few I've come to identify with:

- I'm a Christian but I am pretty lax/agnostic about it. I was raised as a devout fundamentalist Christian, but it was never forced on me, which is why I haven't become so scared of it as to become an atheist.

- Similarly, I consider myself center or maybe center right in politics, but my parents were traditional Republicans. Again, it was never forced upon me as a kid, which is why I'm not out rebelling, burning flags, advocating socialism, etc.

- Senior year of high school I was in a lit course, the type where there was a large list of books to read, and large books got more credit. I took home The Fountainhead over break (since it was large and worth a lot) and was hooked. Objectivism is fascinating and it brought some coherence to my previously scattered ideas about the world.

- I heard about Ron Paul and the Tea Party a year or two ago, through the Internet of course (it was rarely seen in the MSM). I was intrigued because the Republican party was too staunch for me. This too brought a voice to many of my ideas.

- Utilitarianism is a philosophy in the real sense... strangely enough, I learned about it from an essay question on an AP test. It seemed like an obvious way of looking at the world, but apparently it's not without controversy...

The majority of what I've learned has been through my own perceptions and thoughts, with some help from the World Wide Internets. I like to think that I'm a true freethinker, not indoctrinated in any way, but of course you'll only believe that if you agree with me.

Wait, I'm confused...you found a way to combine Objectivism with Utilitarianism?

The "selfishness" of Objectivism is with regards to what society should demand of you. The "greatest happiness" of Utilitarianism is with regards to what you as a person should strive to achieve. I don't believe anyone other than yourself should demand you to work for the happiness of others, I believe it should be a personal decision. But like I said, neither position is a fully accurate label.

My parents are conservative politically. I am a Libertarian. We don't agree on the same social values from a political standpoint (for example, I believe in legalizing drugs; my parents do not). Now, I'm not a 16 year old smoking weed in his bedroom and railing against his parents; I've actually thought this stuff out. My views are different from my parents probably because of law school and my study of the US Constitution (and what I think this country is supposed to be like). I have arguments with them sometimes, but I prefer not to fight about politics (with them at least... anyone else is fair game).

john9blue wrote:The "selfishness" of Objectivism is with regards to what society should demand of you. The "greatest happiness" of Utilitarianism is with regards to what you as a person should strive to achieve. I don't believe anyone other than yourself should demand you to work for the happiness of others, I believe it should be a personal decision. But like I said, neither position is a fully accurate label.

Yeah when you pick a few things from philosophies and then misunderstand them they probably aren't going to be accurate.

Just woke up...
Will respond later today to these new posts...
I'm heading over to a friend's place for a while, then working.
I'd just like to state that I forgot one of my philosophies.

• Sixth, I believe that there was no beginning and that there is no end.

Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah when you pick a few things from philosophies and then misunderstand them they probably aren't going to be accurate.

And yet you've said nothing here about your own philosophies, no reason why I'm wrong, or anything. Just criticizing others. Typical second-hander...

john9blue wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah when you pick a few things from philosophies and then misunderstand them they probably aren't going to be accurate.

And yet you've said nothing here about your own philosophies, no reason why I'm wrong, or anything. Just criticizing others. Typical second-hander...

I'll post shit about my own philosophies later, I was just suprised that you think two fundamentally opposite views on morality and society can fit together in your mind.

But since you made it clear you don't understand them all is well again.

And I'm supposed to believe that you understand them? Why do you think you can get a free pass out of any critical thought whatsoever? Until you explain how exactly I'm wrong, I maintain that I understand them, that you don't, and that you're just trying to cover your ass for not seeing how two views could be reconciled.

Maugena: if you believe in hard determinism, why do you even bother making this thread? And why should morality or anything else be your concern?