Conquer Club

http://regretfulmorning.com/2008/11/ran ... ck-lesnar/

couture's weird fall...and how easily lesnar gets position...and how easily he land punches...i smell couture doin a job to put over brock(looks like he never left wrestling after all)...but i hope not...i love mma as much as wrestling...but i also believe dana white will do anything to beat wwe in PPV buys and tv coverage...i duno...but i reallllllly smell fix here...and look in rd 2, about 2:30 when they are in he clench against the fence...it looks like they are saying something to eachother, brock looks in the direction of his corner(and dana white), then 30 sec later couture crumples without taking a solid blow and is over.

god i hope this wasnt what i think it was

legendkiller717 wrote:http://regretfulmorning.com/2008/11/randy-couture-vs-brock-lesnar/

couture's weird fall...and how easily lesnar gets position...and how easily he land punches...i smell couture doin a job to put over brock(looks like he never left wrestling after all)...but i hope not...i love mma as much as wrestling...but i also believe dana white will do anything to beat wwe in PPV buys and tv coverage...i duno...but i reallllllly smell fix here...and look in rd 2, about 2:30 when they are in he clench against the fence...it looks like they are saying something to eachother, brock looks in the direction of his corner(and dana white), then 30 sec later couture crumples without taking a solid blow and is over.

god i hope this wasnt what i think it was

Notice where Couture was hit, right behind the ear. His equilibrium was gone the moment the punch landed (it has happened to me before) and that is why he went down. He wasn't out cold, but there was no way he was getting up right after that hit. Most people would be pretty much helpless after that kind of hit, and thus Couture was unable to intelligently defend himself (though with such crappy hits, not much need to in real life situations).

muy_thaiguy wrote:

legendkiller717 wrote:http://regretfulmorning.com/2008/11/randy-couture-vs-brock-lesnar/

couture's weird fall...and how easily lesnar gets position...and how easily he land punches...i smell couture doin a job to put over brock(looks like he never left wrestling after all)...but i hope not...i love mma as much as wrestling...but i also believe dana white will do anything to beat wwe in PPV buys and tv coverage...i duno...but i reallllllly smell fix here...and look in rd 2, about 2:30 when they are in he clench against the fence...it looks like they are saying something to eachother, brock looks in the direction of his corner(and dana white), then 30 sec later couture crumples without taking a solid blow and is over.

god i hope this wasnt what i think it was

Notice where Couture was hit, right behind the ear. His equilibrium was gone the moment the punch landed (it has happened to me before) and that is why he went down. He wasn't out cold, but there was no way he was getting up right after that hit. Most people would be pretty much helpless after that kind of hit, and thus Couture was unable to intelligently defend himself (though with such crappy hits, not much need to in real life situations).

i just dunno...if it was fixed, they did a good job, except that the punches that knocked him down, and then brocks flurry of punches, were at best, the equivilent of what a 6 yr old girl would throw...i just dunno this fight stinks of something, just like the kimbo fight did.

I doubt it was fixed....1) that could be the end of MMA and UFC. Look at the uproar after the Kimbo fight, when it was alleged they told the guy to keep it standing.
2) Couture and White are hardly "best buddies" after 15 months of lawsuits.
3) Look at the size differential. Even a glancing blow could knock down Couture.
4) MMA is pretty much a coin flip, considering how good the top fighters are. It should almost be a best of 3 series. One punch, or knee can end it. Look at the wEC guy (Faber I think) that looked unstoppable,beat everyone, and still got KO'd te other night.

Sorry Legend... but I absolutely hate the scripted mini soap operas that pro wrestling has become.
I appreciate that those atheletes are making good money, but the way they do it really sucks,
because it's theatre, not sport.

The Mixed Martial Arts UCF et all has definitely brought some legitimacy to competitive fighting
with some amazing matches and I doubt they would risk ruining what they've achieved with a fix.

lesner won the first round easily,Couture's shots did not faze him,and his knee shots were lifting Couture off the ground,a legit win,from a legit fighter.The conspiracy theories always fly about after a fight as big as that,im hoping brocks next card will be against Nogueira,witch will be a much harder fight for him

well Frank Mir has already submitted Lesner, without much problem. Lesner better work on subs and defense before his next fight. His current brawling style never lasts long in UFC.

I watched those clips, and I have to agree with MTG. Right before Couture goes down, it looks like he mistakenly leans into that punch, and like MTG said, lost his equilibrium.

But there's something else to consider too, and that's the head shots. Head trauma is cumulative, and through the fight Lesnar got in some really good shots to the head, including that elbow about a minute before the actual KO.

I think the OP has just played/watched too many video game/movie/cartoon fights. Real fights don't look like Street Fighter 2, and although we all know that on an analytical level, all of that media to which we subject ourselves programs us to expect some huge blow to do the opponent in, instead of a series of cumulative blows.

Think of the Lennox Lewis/Mike Tyson fight. Lewis just kept jabbing away until the damage accumulated enough, and Tyson fell to the canvas.

jbrettlip wrote:4) MMA is pretty much a coin flip, considering how good the top fighters are. It should almost be a best of 3 series. One punch, or knee can end it. Look at the wEC guy (Faber I think) that looked unstoppable,beat everyone, and still got KO'd te other night.

You are absolutely correct.

A wrestler shoots in, a striker throws a knee at the same time....catches him and it's over. Misses him, and get taken down for the ground and pound. Is their timing that precise? i.e. Can a guy time the knee perfectly when the wrestler shoots? Not really. One time it works, the next time the wrestler is feinting the shoot, then grabs a single leg after the knee attempt. But there are countless examples, and they all involve a high level of luck/chance.

I'm talking about 2 guys fairly evenly matched. There are certainly classes of fighters and a high-level fighter is gonna beat a low-level fighter 95 out of 100 times.

This is a by-product of a few things. Mixing of styles - there are so many combinations and permutations of what might happen and depending on how the dice roll, one or the other will win. Also the lightly padded gloves - one punch can end it and it doesn't have to be a haymaker.

It is gonna be a rare thing to see someone dominate like Anderson Silva. And he will lose too. And it will probably be to a lesser fighter.

This is why MMA is, in my opinion, not as accurate in testing a fighter's skill as boxing. In boxing, you take a guy that is significantly better than another guy, and he will beat him, say, 99 times out of 100. In MMA, if you take an equivalent matchup, the better fighter might only win 80 times out of 100. This is why who is champion at any given time is not as exciting to follow as other fighting sports. There's a good chance that the champion is not the best fighter.

The most entertaining MMA fights are when they are both most proficient at the same style. A good standup fight when nobody really tries to take the other down. Or two real good wrestlers grappling for 15 minutes (with strikes when a superior position allows it). Or two jiu jitsu guys trading submission attempts and defending the same. Sure, there are some fights where the clash of styles is interesting and entertaining, but the best fights are when the rules are "narrowed".

Oh, and did Randy Couture throw the fight? Give me a break.

Excellent fight. They both did well. Couture went to a Thai boxing clinch and tried a knee to Lesnar's head. Not good against someone taller, bigger, and stronger than you. You don't want to create distance in the clinch like that...he should knee to the sides, but keep your body close. It looks to me like Lesnar responded with a knee to Couture and Couture never recovered. That was the first bif mistake I saw by Couture and it cost him the fight in my opinion.

Regarding the Mir fight: Losing to Frank Mir is no embarrassment. Mir can beat anyone on any given day. Mir went for Lensar's "Achilles' heel" and got the win. But Lesnar will beat Mir about 7 out of 10 fights I'd guess. Lesnar's "current brawling style" would have been a simple ground and pound with most fighters. Not too many guys have the wrestling ability to defend the takedowns like Couture. That's the only reason it was on the feet for so long. Lesnar is for real.

Regarding Lewis and Tyson: Sweet science.

legendkiller717 wrote:http://regretfulmorning.com/2008/11/ran ... ck-lesnar/

couture's weird fall...and how easily lesnar gets position...and how easily he land punches...i smell couture doin a job to put over brock(looks like he never left wrestling after all)...but i hope not...i love mma as much as wrestling...but i also believe dana white will do anything to beat wwe in PPV buys and tv coverage...i duno...but i reallllllly smell fix here...and look in rd 2, about 2:30 when they are in he clench against the fence...it looks like they are saying something to eachother, brock looks in the direction of his corner(and dana white), then 30 sec later couture crumples without taking a solid blow and is over.

god i hope this wasnt what i think it was

Thanks for posting the videos, it's nice to be able to watch them again. I was in a bar and I saw the fight live..it wasn't rigged. They don't show the replays in this video but when you see Lesnar's punch in slow motion it's clear that Randy got rocked..hard. You can see a ripple go through Randy's body before he hits the ground. Let's not forget that in all three of Lesnar's UFC fights he's landed knockdown punches.

As for the punches on the ground not being that hard, you have to take into account that Lesnar is a 280 pound man and that he submitted Min Soo Kim in his first MMA fight with similar strikes on the ground. I don't think anyone wanted to see Couture die tonight, especially the ref.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWQ1AyGUFsQ

gordon1975 wrote:lesner won the first round easily,Couture's shots did not faze him,and his knee shots were lifting Couture off the ground,a legit win,from a legit fighter.The conspiracy theories always fly about after a fight as big as that,im hoping brocks next card will be against Nogueira,witch will be a much harder fight for him

I disagree I think Randy was winning the fight until the big knockdown punch. Randy was applying greco roman techniques for most of the fight and maintained a dominant position most of the time. When it did go to the ground Lesnar could hardly keep it there and he didn't manage to land any impressive hits. What I thought was amazing was how Randy was able to muscle up on someone so much bigger than him in the clinch. And there's also that nasty cut that Couture put on him.
Randy could have one the fight even though he didn't. He had to avoid the big shots and he made a mistake. That said, Lesnar is going to be one hell of a competitor in his own right.

jbrettlip wrote:well Frank Mir has already submitted Lesner, without much problem. Lesner better work on subs and defense before his next fight. His current brawling style never lasts long in UFC.

Don't be so quick to discount the level of raw power that Lesnar has. He's probably the strongest (physically) man ever to fight in MMA.

Mir won the fight but I would hardly say that it was easy for him. On the contrary I think Mir lucked out. If the fight hadn't been stood up Lesnar would have won much earlier and he almost would have won it despite that if it weren't for the fact that Mir has great Jiu Jitsu, something which Lesnar hadn't encountered before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKZmFI9vFHI

What's interesting is that while Couture was away Noguera was declared the interim heavyweight champion. Noguera is scheduled to fight Frank Mir in december and the winner of that fight will likely go on to challange Lesnar to unify the heavyweight title. Either way Lesnar is up against a Jiu Jitsu ace, one of which has already submitted him. It will be interesting to see if his defense has improved.

i just thought that it looked like lesnar was winning the majority of the fight, but it looked almost as if couture was letting him, proping him up and letting brock show he is more than one dimensional....now this could go either way...maybe he was trying to wear him down and then strike, and just got hit with a lucky punch...or the other...but to me, i think it is a legitimate possibility of this being a fix. you are blind if youdont see the potential marketing for UFC in having lesnar be its champ, and even more so if he has a rematch with mir, this time for the title( a fight that wont be fixed, i can guarentee)... with Dana white's new found obsession with destroying WWE and being the new Vince McMahon(albeit in a legitimate sport), i could see him "arranging" that his most popular newcomer in years fights one of his most talented, thus restoring a bit of interest in a Heavyweight divison that has been pretty ho-hum recently. the man is a marketing genius...thats all i am saying... plus, lesnar is very tempermental, and a huge investment, had he lost, white would have been out of TONS of money when lesnar quit on him. the man has a history of doing that...

oh, and oVo, i am well aware wrestling is scripted, that the fights are staged(not fake), and that its soap-opery. i performed as a wrestler for 3 years in indy promotions. but dont ever doubt the athleticism in that business. some of those guys, if they wanted to really get into the MMA scene and trained, would probably be some of the nastiest fighters you EVER saw. but they chose a job where they control the beating they take. its personal prefrence. even myself, i was a high school all-american in baseball, but after that didnt pan out, i thought my athleticism was best used there. and there were guys who are 100 times more athletic, including martial artists, amateur wrestling champions, and others with high accolades. i'm not saying you are wrong...but i am just saying...

legendkiller717 wrote: i think it is a legitimate possibility of this being a fix. you are blind if youdont see the potential marketing for UFC in having lesnar be its champ

You need to see the replay. The impact sends a litteral and visible shock wave through Couture's body.

legendkiller717 wrote:lesnar is very tempermental, and a huge investment, had he lost, white would have been out of TONS of money when lesnar quit on him. the man has a history of doing that...

I would say he had just as much to lose with Randy losing. The Couture-Emilianenko fight isn't such a big deal anymore.

There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

luns101 wrote:There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

You're right. Because this isn't the 21st Century, or anything.

luns101 wrote:There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

Are you saying it was printed *before* the fight was over?

Or that they had the story 3/4 written, waited for the fight to end, and went to the presses with it quickly?

Lesnar's hands are huge! And he throws them with pretty decent speed. He must punch hard. And I am pretty sure he got the knee into Couture's head seconds before the punch.

And Cassius Clay connected slightly with Sonny Liston in just the right spot (ask Kimbo about that spot).



Any other fight "fixes" you want explained?

luns101 wrote:There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

Is this a JFK conspiracy joke? Cause that's way to "insider."

For the record, I can't really comment since I haven't seen the clip, and can't view it online. I heard some talk on the win on UFC but that's all.
But what I can say, as an amature boxer, is that accumulation and lucky shots are a huge part of win. But so is preperation. If you've learned a style that tells you to lower your left so you can swing harder with your right, and the other guy jabs you in the nose; Well then brother, you should have been better prepaired. No where can this be more true than MMA. You've gotta play by instinct, but you've also got to prepare as well as you can.
And I'm not comparing Boxing to MMA, that's apples and oranges.
Of course, I've won a few fights with very lucky shots. A quick punch can end up a finisher if the other guy catches it wrong.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Is this a JFK conspiracy joke? Cause that's way to "insider."

pimpdave wrote:You're right. Because this isn't the 21st Century, or anything.

I don't believe that Brock Lesnar acted alone, I can tell you both that much. Look at the way Couture's body gave out! He falls back and then to the left....back and to the left...back and to the left.

Nah, both you guys got me...time to fess up.

I find it hard to believe it was already news in New Zealand "only hours after it finished."
Obviously the Kiwis weren't in on the fix or they would have known sooner...
or was it actually a day earlier in that part of thw world?

luns101 wrote:There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not. Anyone in the world with an enternet connection could have found out immediately after the fight was over. I read an article I found on google about it a half an hour after the fight was finished.

GabonX wrote:

luns101 wrote:There was a newspaper in New Zealand that had the story about Brock Lesnar winning the fight only hours after it was finished. How could they have known so quickly? Something is definitely fishy about the whole thing.

I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not. Anyone in the world with an enternet connection could have found out immediately after the fight was over. I read an article I found on google about it a half an hour after the fight was finished.

After the JFK assassignation several newspapers in New Zeland had more information than newspapers in America. Including Lee Harvey's name. They say the newspapers couldn't have known so much unless it was pre-planned. It's a conspiracy joke.