Judgement Day- Game Over, MAFIA WIN!!!

mandalorian2298 · Post by **mandalorian2298** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:28 pm

kwanton wrote:Bulletproof and unlynchable?

Overpowered much?

QFT

Also, I must say that God should have had a bigger battle rating. In the end, the whole game went to one role of the dice.

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:22 pm

kwanton wrote:Bulletproof and unlynchable?

Overpowered much?

Reminds me of my first game!

And this was a good game, I got to rain ponies on my subject! Oh how I wish God actually did that.

This was a good game, apart from the fact that no one listened to me even if I stated that ga7 was the messiah. Many times.

Oh well, good playing everyone!

jnd94 · Post by **jnd94** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:22 pm

I see the mistakes I made, but you can't blame the loss on porr balance. Sure there was misplaced power, but the town had it. Ga7 went out and said he was the messiah. there was no counter claim. Skittles said ga7 was good. He said ga7 was messiah. Still no counter claim. Right there you should have realized that you shouldn't target him.

I did say that i will be running another game with this theme, and i still will. There will be no gods, no battles, just a regular ol mafia game with some small twists.

Sierra_Leon · Post by **Sierra_Leon** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:08 pm

jnd94 wrote:What stuff do you want?

I think I've figured out what every role does already. There's only 2 things still unclear:
1) What could the gods do?
2) What was everyone's battle rating?

By the way, putting the game balance aside, I think you modded this excellently. I'll play one of your games again any time.

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:15 pm

Gods could - send 3 messages to earthly cunts a day.
not much else.

jnd94 · Post by **jnd94** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Sierra_Leon wrote:
jnd94 wrote:What stuff do you want?
I think I've figured out what every role does already. There's only 2 things still unclear:
1) What could the gods do?
2) What was everyone's battle rating?

By the way, putting the game balance aside, I think you modded this excellently. I'll play one of your games again any time.

Thanks.

GODS: Exile explained most things to me about the god concept. He told me about the whole god points, but i didn't like that, so I just gave them 3 god posts per day. But after armageddon they could really post whenever they wanted. I wanted the gods to play a backseat position, giving advice to those who knew where to find it. And their posts were good, but people interpreted them in bad ways, which is why most of the time the god posts were ignored.

i knew i wanted them to play a big part in the end, so they fought the end battle. They had a 10 battle rating, so yeah, it really did come down to random.org

I should have planned that better

Battle Ratings:

Ad-8
Fircoal-6
Mandy-7
Selin-5
ga7-9
Serbia-3
Sierra-8
nagerous-8
freezie-8
spinwizard-7
Talapus-7
Gimpy-7
Skoffin-6
Koesen-9
kwan-8
LSU-4
firth-4
Syzgy-6
Neutrino-7
F1fth-8
TWO-2
diddle-6

Angels had 8
Head Prophets had 7
Regular Prophets had 6

jnd94 · Post by **jnd94** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:23 pm

Oh, I forgot to explain another new mechanic. I call it the town food chain. As you probably figured out from Mandy's post, there were 4 groups of pro-town players, then 2 religious peoples. There was an angel, head prophet, and regualr prophet in each. The reason it was a food chain was because the regualr prophet was bodyguard for the head prophet, and the head prophet for the angel. This would help conserve the best players for the end, where they were needed. But to help balance it out sort of, the regualr prophet and angel didn't know of each other. Only the middleman, the head prophet knew of both plauyers. He couldn't tell each other about the other person. But if you killed the horse you were after (a mission) you gained the priveledge of knowing everyone in your group. The angel had 2 invrstigation with wich to help find their specific horse.

gimpyThewonder · Post by **gimpyThewonder** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:43 pm

I have to agree w/ Sierra, i thought the balance was off. As scum we weren't supposed to know who else was, but there were townies that did?! It made for frustration. Also you wrote my battle rating in my pm as 4, had i known it was higher i might have gone after some bigger fish (i'm guessing that was just a typo though).

i think the foodchain explanation tells us why certain night kills fell through, that was also a source of frustration, but knowing why now it makes sense. But this structure left no wiggle-room for fake claims.

I also gotta agree that the messiah/anti-christ was too powerful.

and lastly, I really think that a mafia janitor should get to know what the deceased was before cleaning up the scene, otherwise its pointless, scum need to know who they are bumping off. I'd like to throw that one out to the group and see what others think of the role. Should the Janitor know the role of the nightkilled victim

other than all that i did have fun playing w/ this group of players (the active ones anyway) and you did a good job modding. I plan to take some time off from mafia and get my Deadwood game off the ground (finally) so everyone look out for it and be patient w/ a first-time mod.

Sierra_Leon · Post by **Sierra_Leon** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:34 am

In case anyone wondered about our night actions:
Night one, we targeted nag -> diddle died.
Night two, we targeted TWO -> he died.
Night three, we targeted mandy -> skoffin died.
Night four, armageddon.
Koesen went after kwanton -> he survived.
Gimpy went after firth. (I think) -> he died.
I went after spin -> he died.
(so you killed fircoal, neutrino and talapus all by yourselves

)
Night five, we targeted freezie -> he died.

We were really frustrated about the fact that the people we thought to be angels (nag, mandy, kwanton and freezie) kept surviving our attempts to kill them. Up until night 5, we were thinking all angels were bulletproof and we were really pissed about it, because there was no way we could lynch them either. We figured the kills that happened in their place were from a lousy town vig or a SK.

If you use this system again jnd, you could help ease this frustration by letting us know it was a bodyguard who died. But I suggest not using this system again: the whole point of scum being allowed to select who they kill is so they can kill the good players, not to get rid of players who are of no threath anyway.

The last problem was the one that threw off game balance the most: the town had too much information. Once they figured out that there were four horse-hunting groups of three people each, they could easily distiguish them from the others. It also made fake-claiming pretty hard for scum.

By the way jnd, are you sure those battle ratings are correct? Like gimpy said his should be 4, and I thought AD had an insane battle rating of 25.

One last remark: lol@skittles and kalish, you might have been gods but your roles totally sucked!

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:35 am

Bulletproof and unlynchable is overpowered, but both sides had one of those, and I didn't hear any complaints when the Messiah claimed to be both.

AD told me his battle rating was 25. Was he wrong or you?

I think the balance was unusual, to say the least, but town had solid advantages too. With so many people knowing who was who or at least able to verify the veracity of stories like Mandy's, it was very hard for scum to stay hidden for any length of time, and everybody bodyguarding each other made nightkilling really hard. I think my group only got two succesful nightkills (TWO and Freezie). Attempts to kill nagerous and Kwanton failed. Without the battles, we wouldn't have had any chance at all.

The way it ended is debatable, but jnd did announce that it was possible to kill the Gods and he did say that would pretty much determine the outcome. I had sent in my attack against ga7 already at that point, but I would have switched to Skittles! if it had been possible. The fact that none of the town players attacked Kalishnikov was simply a wrong strategy, for which town only has itself to blame.

All in all, frustrations aside, I enjoyed the game.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:40 am

Ah, reading Sierra's post, I see I misunderstood the bodyguard thing. Ok, that made it slightly less impossible, but still it would have required too much time to get to the top people. Also, having been informed that the dead people were bodyguards would have made a huge difference. Up to a minute ago, I still thought the other kills were done by somebody else.

As for the janitor thing, regardless of which game we're talking about, I think it makes sense that somebody cleaning up a crime scene knows what he cleaned up.

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:55 am

How did firth's role work?

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am

Koesen wrote:
As for the janitor thing, regardless of which game we're talking about, I think it makes sense that somebody cleaning up a crime scene knows what he cleaned up.

When I used the janitor role I made it so that the mafia did not know who they were cleaning up purely because it gave them too much information as who to claim and what to fake claim but its personal preference I guess.

jnd94 · Post by **jnd94** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:02 am

nagerous wrote:How did firth's role work?

This is funny. At first he told me he couldn't play the whole game, so I put him as suicidal culty who would die day 2. So, I guess to make the most of his role, he pretended to investigate people. because he knew Serbia's role, he easily did that. But after, he just picked random people. Il et him live because he said he was abandoning his game, which would keep him away from this game.

And lol, AD's BR wasn't 25.

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:57 am

Sierra_Leon wrote: Night three, we targeted mandy -> skoffin died.

We actually targeted Kwanton. I assumed Mandy would be protected somehow.

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:40 am

Wow, we won? Sweet...

We only won that because the town gave it to us. You fools knew every one of the mafia! You called them all out by names and even knew most of their correct roles, seems like a lucky win for us...

It was kinda fun to watch and know what's happening and who's who, but the gods needed something more to do then just a few posts (which were ignored anyway).

You guys lynched poor Serbia because of my joke, lol...

And it was a huge pain in the ass not being able to communicate with my whole crew and not being able to inform them of each other's identities. It made planning really difficult.

Sierra_Leon · Post by **Sierra_Leon** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:32 am

jnd94 wrote:
nagerous wrote:How did firth's role work?
This is funny. At first he told me he couldn't play the whole game, so I put him as suicidal culty who would die day 2. So, I guess to make the most of his role, he pretended to investigate people. because he knew Serbia's role, he easily did that. But after, he just picked random people. Il et him live because he said he was abandoning his game, which would keep him away from this game.

And lol, AD's BR wasn't 25.

I think this game would've been a lot more interesting if the cult had spread some more. That way, the townies who knew eachother couldn't completely trust eachother. Thank you firth, for screwing that up.

As for AD, I guess he's just one of those guys who's always bragging about his penis being 10 inches long!

Koesen · Post by **Koesen** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:45 am

I really wanted to keep AD alive because of his monster rating and had an elaborate plan to give him proof for his seer claim the next morning. Unfortunately, the tide turned again before I could give it to him.

I guess in hindsight I'm glad he wasn't as strong as he said he was. It makes the loss easier to bear

It was also unfortunate that the Firth vs Mandy thing didn't result in a lynch of either one. Although it did lead to the useful revelation that there weren't just lone horsehunters but entire teams of them. When Mandy made his 'team Pale' remark, I knew it was going to be very hard.

The early elimination of the cult's recruiting ability made a big difference indeed. Which is a mixed blessing. More confusion among town would have been great, but recruitment of my horsemen would have been a disaster

mandalorian2298 · Post by **mandalorian2298** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Koesen wrote:I really wanted to keep AD alive because of his monster rating and had an elaborate plan to give him proof for his seer claim the next morning. Unfortunately, the tide turned again before I could give it to him.

I guess in hindsight I'm glad he wasn't as strong as he said he was. It makes the loss easier to bear

Speaking of AD, I grew suspicius of him during Day 2 when she swore on a whole stack of souls that he is pro-God. That kind of thing sounds strange coming from an atheist who's avi is an inverted pentagram.

Selin · Post by **Selin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:33 pm

voww, I can't believe that we won despite all disadvantages

)

.

firth4eva · Post by **firth4eva** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:36 pm

No jnd you have it wrong. This is why I did what I did.
I was suicidal cultist but didn't know Serbia was my leader. So I knew I was going to die and a God said that he was scum. So I "investigated" him and said he was nostradamus cult because that sounded believable because I knew it was real. If you understand me. So then I just got really unlucky. A 1 in 30(I think it was 30) chance of hitting my cult leader and I did. So don't blame me Sierra. Blame bad luck(and kalish for saying he was scum originally). From then on I just tried to blag my way through the game trying to throw town and scum off.

Sierra_Leon · Post by **Sierra_Leon** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:54 pm

firth4eva wrote:No jnd you have it wrong. This is why I did what I did.
I was suicidal cultist but didn't know Serbia was my leader. So I knew I was going to die and a God said that he was scum. So I "investigated" him and said he was nostradamus cult because that sounded believable because I knew it was real. If you understand me. So then I just got really unlucky. A 1 in 30(I think it was 30) chance of hitting my cult leader and I did. So don't blame me Sierra. Blame bad luck(and kalish for saying he was scum originally). From then on I just tried to blag my way through the game trying to throw town and scum off.

Haha, you didn't even know?! Alright, I take back what I said earlier.

firth4eva · Post by **firth4eva** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:57 pm

jnd94 wrote:You are a Suicidal Cultist. You have joined Nostradamus's cult, but you don't want to live durig this war, so you will die during night 2.

gimpyThewonder · Post by **gimpyThewonder** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:53 pm

nagerous wrote:
Koesen wrote:
As for the janitor thing, regardless of which game we're talking about, I think it makes sense that somebody cleaning up a crime scene knows what he cleaned up.

When I used the janitor role I made it so that the mafia did not know who they were cleaning up purely because it gave them too much information as who to claim and what to fake claim but its personal preference I guess.

not to sound rude but, then why use the role? I'm just wondering how its advantageous (for the scum) to clean up the kill and not know. Whenever i've been scum i wanted to know exactly what role had been gotten rid of, doc, cop, or whatever. it helps you plot your strategy ie docs gone now i can take out other power roles that might have been protected.

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:07 pm

gimpyThewonder wrote:
nagerous wrote:
Koesen wrote:
As for the janitor thing, regardless of which game we're talking about, I think it makes sense that somebody cleaning up a crime scene knows what he cleaned up.

When I used the janitor role I made it so that the mafia did not know who they were cleaning up purely because it gave them too much information as who to claim and what to fake claim but its personal preference I guess.
not to sound rude but, then why use the role? I'm just wondering how its advantageous (for the scum) to clean up the kill and not know. Whenever i've been scum i wanted to know exactly what role had been gotten rid of, doc, cop, or whatever. it helps you plot your strategy ie docs gone now i can take out other power roles that might have been protected.

Good question and I'll explain that in my game it was because it left roleclaims out in the open, people were unsure what was a safe claim, what unknown roles etc. Not having the information is worse for the town than mafia.