QWERTY Keyboard - Brand New Design [vacation]

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:43 am

Okay, Cigarette replaced with a Pencil, Added in some instructions below.

Still need to add words and bonuses up top. Or should I put instructions up top and bonuses below? (I think that might work better, since bonuses will be a larger section)

Ogrecrusher · Post by **Ogrecrusher** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:18 am

I would never play a map where 20+ territories can all attack each other. Sounds like madness to me.

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:42 am

Bonuses and gameplay added in. Shown with Army Positions as 888's.

Comments on how this is looking/readability please. Do the glows work? Should they be different colours/different styles/not there at all?

I'd really like to push this into foundry so it can get more critique than in here, how much more do I need to do before it can be moved in there?

FreeMan10 · Post by **FreeMan10** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:27 pm

blue numbers on blue, red numbers on red, blue & purble numbers on purple, and I'm guessing green on green (no example in the pic) are really hard to read. Maybe lighten up the key tops and leave the sides the same strong color?

Mr Unbeatable · Post by **Mr Unbeatable** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:57 pm

Nice map and looks really good with the most recent update and i can now see nothing wrong with the map. But the colours will clash. What happens when the red player gets onto a red key, it will be near impossible to read.

I GOT SERVED · Post by **I GOT SERVED** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:03 pm

Cold you rephrase the bit that says "Armies escape from esc..." It sounds awkward.

Other than that, I like the progress this has made. Keep up the most excellent work!

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:12 pm

Yep, valid comments with the key colours, I'd seen that and figured that'd be my next step, but thought I'd at least show where I'm up to. I'll put some green on green and work to get them all looking acceptable.

I'll see what I can do about rephrasing Escape from Esc... Maybe something like...

"ESCAPE!!! Two of your armies run away each turn"

MrBenn · Post by **MrBenn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:39 pm

You need to have a serious think about how balanced the gameplay is going to be... With the number of 2-territory bonuses, it is virtually guaranteed that somebody will start with a couple; and whoever starts with the Left-Ctrl key is bound to win, due to the proximity of ZXCVF.

I had a look for the other typewriter/letter-combo idea earlier but couldn't find it... if you can locate it, it's worth having a read though to see why that fizzled out, and see if you can avoid the same fate!

Sorry if I sound negative, but you're obviously putting in a fair bit of effort, and I don't want you to get disheartened several weeks down the line. It has got to be worth your while leaving the idea for a short while (maybe over the weekend), and seeing how much interest this map is really getting...

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:50 pm

MrBenn wrote:You need to have a serious think about how balanced the gameplay is going to be... With the number of 2-territory bonuses, it is virtually guaranteed that somebody will start with a couple; and whoever starts with the Left-Ctrl key is bound to win, due to the proximity of ZXCVF.

I had a look for the other typewriter/letter-combo idea earlier but couldn't find it... if you can locate it, it's worth having a read though to see why that fizzled out, and see if you can avoid the same fate!

Sorry if I sound negative, but you're obviously putting in a fair bit of effort, and I don't want you to get disheartened several weeks down the line. It has got to be worth your while leaving the idea for a short while (maybe over the weekend), and seeing how much interest this map is really getting...

Cheers for the feedback, and believe me it's taken in the way it was intended

I'll have a peer and see what I can find with regards to the other combo. What I'd really like is an ability on a test server to run this map, and play 10-20 games to really get the FEEL for it, then i'd be able to look at game changes.

I'd almost think the right control was stronger, because it can attack the z, x, c, v directly. but either control would work... Perhaps if I started all the control keys (non letter/number) as neutrals? or at least the Ctrl keys, since they are the key to the 2-key bonuses (pun not intended, but appreciated), and are also distanced from the pack.. Maybe if I made Ctrl and Alt green keys rather than red/blue keys that might add some balance as it would take away that immediate connectedness.

I also think that with so many possibilities for bonuses, that regardless of start, everyone would have a chance to work towards something... If someone got the ctrl + several bonuses, someone else might have the backspace or delete, and be able to bombard them out of those bonuses...

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:56 pm

Looks good;) I still don't know why its not in the Foundry

the_fatty · Post by **the_fatty** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm

Unit_2 wrote:Looks good;) I still don't know why its not in the Foundry

sorry, bbut in my oppinion, there are too many bonuses. this maybe is why there has never been this map before. idk, but i like it, and i hope you pull though!

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm

Also, the other thing I spoke about but haven't included yet (it might take up too much space to explain?) was the maths with the number keys concept... Which I really like.. I mean, if we're going to have lots of bonuses, lets go all out.

What I think it's missing -at the moment- is a set of bonuses between the +2's, and the most >+6's for words. There's a couple, but as words they are messy to hold.

Or maybe making the +2's, +1, since there's so many of them, and they share a common key... actually I think that's a lot better....

Or how about this - now we have overrides.... "Holding one combo - +2", "Holding 3 combo's - +4", "holding 6 combo's - +6" - rather than doubling/tripling/quadrupling up on the bonus of that one control key... Yes... I see.. that makes more sense.... or possibly even that you can only have one of those bonuses? I know this could be programmed with the requirements tab...

Something such as the single digit maths combinations, using sub (-), add (shift and =), divide (/) and times (shift and

along with single digit numbers,
so 4 + 5 = 9 (you'd need to hold 4, 5, shift, = and 9) probably worth +3
9 - 2 = 7 (hold 9, 2, - and 7), maybe +2

Again, I'd want to do something with requirements to make sure you weren't doubling up on these bonuses... You can only use each number once. You can't do 9-2 and 9-1 and 9-3 and 9-4... That would be unfair and unbalanced... Possibly even each operation only once..

But I think this is an XML problem rather than a graphics/concept problem... It can all be overcome with lateral thinking and problem solving. I think the gameplay has a lot of potential -AS LONG- as we make sure that it's equitable and fair.

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:00 pm

the_fatty wrote:
Unit_2 wrote:Looks good;) I still don't know why its not in the Foundry
sorry, bbut in my oppinion, there are too many bonuses. this maybe is why there has never been this map before. idk, but i like it, and i hope you pull though!

Yes, but how about if I restrict it so you can't have all those bonuses at once... You can only use each key once (or for one word). It would choose the best word for you for the keys you have, but if you have say Fox,and then get Fortify, you lose Fox, but you can then use the x elsewhere (maybe for a ctrl+x cut?)

With enough restrictions to stop the bonuses spiralling out of stupid control, I think this has playability.

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:20 pm

+2 for lackattack? its only one more letter!

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:51 pm

Yeah, but so much more Lackattack!!!

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:17 am

Small Image - 600px by 450px shown with armies.

Large Image - 800px by 600px shown with armies

Fixed colour armies on colour key problem by feathering in the old keyface texture. Still gives a nice colour round the edges, and easily identifies keys.

Discussed updated gameplay in first post, but haven't updated it on map yet.

I would like to see more discussion on the gameplay and where we can go to head off the SUPERMASSIVEHAPPYBONUSWORLD that could occur... I think I'm on the right track.

Keredrex · Post by **Keredrex** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:16 pm

At first glance it looks interesting... I would change the graphics a bit.... Try lightening up the Background... and it seems a bit blurry

whitestazn88 · Post by **whitestazn88** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:20 pm

i think the conquer key should have the ability to bombard, and you should change esc and backspace/delete to something like alcatraz in the san fran map.. maybe? i dunno, just throwing shit out there

Night Strike · Post by **Night Strike** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:08 pm

Wow, this map is improving very nicely from where it started. I believe that it finally has some potential. I also suggest moving it to the main foundry.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:30 pm

Sorry about the delay, I had some bias here as I don't like the idea that kept me from looking at it lately (that and some back stage work that I hope you guys like when we reveal it).

Anyway, it looks much much better than when it started so here you go:

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:32 pm

Which Base Keyboard do you prefer? (See first post)

Modern Silvery One 36% [ 11 ]
Oldschool Black One 63% [ 19 ]

Total Votes : 30

tenio · Post by **tenio** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:03 pm

congrats on getting into the foundry, but please dont inlcude that obscure numbers bonus thing

I really couldn't understand it

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:55 pm

Thanks Coleman

Tenio, I get your point, and you know, you're probably right...

Also it would take -way- too much space for me to explain.

Tieryn · Post by **Tieryn** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:17 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:i think the conquer key should have the ability to bombard, and you should change esc and backspace/delete to something like alcatraz in the san fran map.. maybe? i dunno, just throwing shit out there

I've had thoughts along this way, certainly for the Escape key. (or the No Escape key?) "Escapeless" maybe

Logically, it's delete and backspace that can "delete" keystrokes, which is what I'd analogise bombarding too.

Maybe the conquer key could just have some bonuses?

Or perhaps the winning objective could be forming some word, (including capitalisation or shift) and perhaps some number combination - to make it long and not easily achievable... and the Conquer key.

The only function it serves is to finish the game, it starts full of neutrals, people wouldn't go for it unless they had the word, and when they had the word, everyone would be trying to stop them...

thoughts on this idea? I think this could be a map where objectives are important... Perhaps there could be several possible winning objectives (to make the game more interesting), I'd be thinking perhaps an 8 or 9 unique letter word, the shift key, three numbers (arbitrary... would like to justify this somehow) and then the conquer key.

2 Shifts or capslock would have 3 possibilities that way.

So you'd have to get

[large # of letters from lots of possibles]
----------[one of three caps]---------------
--------------[CONQUER]------------------

Or instead of including numbers in the words.. that could be its own objective...

(territories to win/74)
Objective 1) - Hold "Conquer Club" (10 letters), + a Shift, + Conquer (12/74)
Objective 2) - Hold any single row + Conquer
{` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = backspace conquer} (15/74) or
{tab q w e r t y u i o p [ ] \ conquer} (15/74) or
{capslock a s d f g h j k l ; ' conquer} (13/74) or
{shift z x c v b n m , . / shift conquer} (13/74) or
{Esc F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 F9 F10 F11 F12} (14/74)

The massive interconnectedness makes this less easy that it might initially look. 12/74 is a hard lot to get.

To make it so you couldn't start with a win, and obviously... you start with a blank document. Everything is 1/random/varied neutrals to begin with, except conquer which is more, and the starting points are Start, Start, Alt, Alt, Ctrl, Ctrl, Tab, Del. 8 starting locations.

This will definately increase gameplay possibilities and remove the "insta-win" condition.

ParadiceCity9 · Post by **ParadiceCity9** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:19 pm

why do you only get 2 for having lackattack? btw i like this idea (:

QWERTY Keyboard - Brand New Design [vacation]

Should this map be forged?