Muslim Discussion

[MeDeFe]

Skittles!, you fastposted me by half an hour, I was going to ask the same question, as soon as I had read all the new posts.

[Guiscard]

Yeah, and I really, really, really hope that this isn't the start of Wicked jumping in whenever folks on here start jawing about religious beliefs. Many of our discussions become quite spirited, and most of us are capable of recognizing that differences of opinion are just that. Though Nappy certainly has a knack of crossing the line, DaGip, in my opinion, generally doesn't, so let's all just chill a bit, eh? (<-- note Canadian influence for extra-relaxing effect)

Hear hear... Not to keen on current modding really... We can all take a bit of shit, can't we? I mean, when I joined the site we had fairly heated debates on such matters in Flame Wars, but that was cleared out in favour of everything being in the Mess Hall (as it was then). Now we should move back to Flame Wars?

[Neoteny]

It's more of a state of mind, really. Like a permanent high. And chicks dig it.

I'm just imagining Neoteny corruptin some poor georgian preacher's daughter.

Fortunately, quite a few of them don't need my help in that respect. It's all down hill from there.

[Napoleon Ier]

It's more of a state of mind, really. Like a permanent high. And chicks dig it.

I'm just imagining Neoteny corruptin some poor georgian preacher's daughter.

Fortunately, quite a few of them don't need my help in that respect. It's all down hill from there.

Are they all inbred freaks of the Cletus-the-slack-jawed-yockel-from-the-Simpsons'-wife variety or are they sophisticated, attractive, sweet-talking, and voluptuous, of the more traditional variety. We get very conflicting images of the South from the media: idylic paradise (albeit masking racial tensions) where impeccably polite gentlemen own superb houses and acres of plantation, or dilapidated swamps inhabited by your average Bubba Ewell?

[Neoteny]

It's more of a state of mind, really. Like a permanent high. And chicks dig it.

I'm just imagining Neoteny corruptin some poor georgian preacher's daughter.

Fortunately, quite a few of them don't need my help in that respect. It's all down hill from there.

Are they all inbred freaks of the Cletus-the-slack-jawed-yockel-from-the-Simpsons'-wife variety or are they sophisticated, attractive, sweet-talking, and voluptuous, of the more traditional variety. We get very conflicting images of the South from the media: idylic paradise (albeit masking racial tensions) where impeccably polite gentlemen own superb houses and acres of plantation, or dilapidated swamps inhabited by your average Bubba Ewell?

Well, as always there are extremes, but most of us live in suburbs with very little inbreeding (though Deliverance was shot in Georgia, if I remember correctly). When you have a church on every other corner, there are plenty of opportunities to get out and mix genes with others of your kind. And often, attractive and sweet-talking won't necessarily go together. I find it difficult to find someone who can pull off the southern drawl with an attractive classiness. They are around, but not as common as I'd like. :[

I'm currently dating someone from SoCal, so you might see where my preferences lie...

[Napoleon Ier]

It's more of a state of mind, really. Like a permanent high. And chicks dig it.

I'm just imagining Neoteny corruptin some poor georgian preacher's daughter.

Fortunately, quite a few of them don't need my help in that respect. It's all down hill from there.

Are they all inbred freaks of the Cletus-the-slack-jawed-yockel-from-the-Simpsons'-wife variety or are they sophisticated, attractive, sweet-talking, and voluptuous, of the more traditional variety. We get very conflicting images of the South from the media: idylic paradise (albeit masking racial tensions) where impeccably polite gentlemen own superb houses and acres of plantation, or dilapidated swamps inhabited by your average Bubba Ewell?

Well, as always there are extremes, but most of us live in suburbs with very little inbreeding (though Deliverance was shot in Georgia, if I remember correctly). When you have a church on every other corner, there are plenty of opportunities to get out and mix genes with others of your kind. And often, attractive and sweet-talking won't necessarily go together. I find it difficult to find someone who can pull off the southern drawl with an attractive classiness. They are around, but not as common as I'd like. :[

I'm currently dating someone from SoCal, so you might see where my preferences lie...

I see...I see...too much trouble from daddy the local pastor sending a lynch-mawb after you, or more just a question of preference for certain personalities?

[Neoteny]

I see...I see...too much trouble from daddy the local pastor sending a lynch-mawb after you, or more just a question of preference for certain personalities?

That would make an excellent story for the grandkids, but it's partly the fact that I don't generally interact much with the serious Bible thumpers, and partly a matter of personality, probably more on their part than mine (who wants to hang out with "that guy who is always blaspheming?"). Also, I'm for the novelty factor involved in finding someone who is not a Christian. We're just so damn hard to locate. I say we create some symbol to recognize each other. The conspiracy theorists would go nuts.

[Napoleon Ier]

I see...I see...too much trouble from daddy the local pastor sending a lynch-mawb after you, or more just a question of preference for certain personalities?

That would make an excellent story for the grandkids, but it's partly the fact that I don't generally interact much with the serious Bible thumpers, and partly a matter of personality, probably more on their part than mine (who wants to hang out with "that guy who is always blaspheming?"). Also, I'm for the novelty factor involved in finding someone who is not a Christian. We're just so damn hard to locate. I say we create some symbol to recognize each other. The conspiracy theorists would go nuts.

I reckon they find it attractive. Whilst on they say that to you, they must just love your rebel streak. I mean, who are they going to go for, the submissive, bland, brainwashed guy or the badass rebel alpha male (I'm of course of the opinion that Nietzschian conceptions of Supermen and Christianity can be reconciled without wandering too far into positive Christian ideology, but that's a different matter).
Seriously though, does the whole town just look on you as some kind of black sheep or lost soul and give you dissaproving stares as you blare out hip hop from a toyota prius whilst reading Sartre and drinking Macchiato?

[Neoteny]

I see...I see...too much trouble from daddy the local pastor sending a lynch-mawb after you, or more just a question of preference for certain personalities?

That would make an excellent story for the grandkids, but it's partly the fact that I don't generally interact much with the serious Bible thumpers, and partly a matter of personality, probably more on their part than mine (who wants to hang out with "that guy who is always blaspheming?"). Also, I'm for the novelty factor involved in finding someone who is not a Christian. We're just so damn hard to locate. I say we create some symbol to recognize each other. The conspiracy theorists would go nuts.

I reckon they find it attractive. Whilst on they say that to you, they must just love your rebel streak. I mean, who are they going to go for, the submissive, bland, brainwashed guy or the badass rebel alpha male (I'm of course of the opinion that Nietzschian conceptions of Supermen and Christianity can be reconciled without wandering too far into positive Christian ideology, but that's a different matter).
Seriously though, does the whole town just look on you as some kind of black sheep or lost soul and give you dissaproving stares as you blare out hip hop from a toyota prius whilst reading Sartre and drinking Macchiato?

It's scary how almost spot-on you are. It's just a Camry, and I used to love a good caramel macchiato, though they are a bit too sweet for me now. And I'm definitely a badass, though it's usually metal instead of hip hop (and I've stopped turning the music up as I pass churches, I've matured in my old age). But most people just don't know about the atheism. Plus, I go to church on major Christian holidays with my family so maybe I'm fooling them all into thinking I'm one of the good guys.

[Napoleon Ier]

I see...I see...too much trouble from daddy the local pastor sending a lynch-mawb after you, or more just a question of preference for certain personalities?

That would make an excellent story for the grandkids, but it's partly the fact that I don't generally interact much with the serious Bible thumpers, and partly a matter of personality, probably more on their part than mine (who wants to hang out with "that guy who is always blaspheming?"). Also, I'm for the novelty factor involved in finding someone who is not a Christian. We're just so damn hard to locate. I say we create some symbol to recognize each other. The conspiracy theorists would go nuts.

I reckon they find it attractive. Whilst on they say that to you, they must just love your rebel streak. I mean, who are they going to go for, the submissive, bland, brainwashed guy or the badass rebel alpha male (I'm of course of the opinion that Nietzschian conceptions of Supermen and Christianity can be reconciled without wandering too far into positive Christian ideology, but that's a different matter).
Seriously though, does the whole town just look on you as some kind of black sheep or lost soul and give you dissaproving stares as you blare out hip hop from a toyota prius whilst reading Sartre and drinking Macchiato?

It's scary how almost spot-on you are. It's just a Camry, and I used to love a good caramel macchiato, though they are a bit too sweet for me now. And I'm definitely a badass, though it's usually metal instead of hip hop (and I've stopped turning the music up as I pass churches, I've matured in my old age). But most people just don't know about the atheism. Plus, I go to church on major Christian holidays with my family so maybe I'm fooling them all into thinking I'm one of the good guys.

Classic stuff! You've got to record :

"Everything's peaches down in Georgia - Neoteny's techno remix"

How did you come to be such a ridiculous antithesis to the culture of the region you live in? How did this happen?

[Neoteny]

Classic stuff! You've got to record :

"Everything's peaches down in Georgia - Neoteny's techno remix"

How did you come to be such a ridiculous antithesis to the culture of the region you live in? How did this happen?

Techno... I left that behind in Hawaii. We don't take kindly to that kind of noise 'round here. Honestly, I have no idea. My parents are as politically conservative as I am liberal, and as Christian as anyone else I know. My only guess is that I moved around a lot with my father as he was in the military and had a lot of contact with other cultures and opinions. It was just an incomplete immersion in all things Christianity. I also developed a bit of an independent streak that clashed with my religious perspectives, and I gradually found that my values didn't line up with most (at least at face value) religious ideologies. So I discarded them. Plus, I was always hesitant to fully take in the whole concept of god. There was something fishy about god by about age thirteen or fourteen, but he stuck around for a few more years...

[Napoleon Ier]

Classic stuff! You've got to record :

"Everything's peaches down in Georgia - Neoteny's techno remix"

How did you come to be such a ridiculous antithesis to the culture of the region you live in? How did this happen?

Techno... I left that behind in Hawaii. We don't take kindly to that kind of noise 'round here. Honestly, I have no idea. My parents are as politically conservative as I am liberal, and as Christian as anyone else I know. My only guess is that I moved around a lot with my father as he was in the military and had a lot of contact with other cultures and opinions. It was just an incomplete immersion in all things Christianity. I also developed a bit of an independent streak that clashed with my religious perspectives, and I gradually found that my values didn't line up with most (at least at face value) religious ideologies. So I discarded them. Plus, I was always hesitant to fully take in the whole concept of god. There was something fishy about god by about age thirteen or fourteen, but he stuck around for a few more years...

Ah, but this typically Southern reaction seems to suggest you retain culturally Southern identity. Do you fly a rebel flag and listen to Skynyrd, or did you discard that during your formative teenage years as well?

[unriggable]

Lynyrd Skynyrd...it's not like music and cultural identity go hand in hand - that's why very few like Green Day.

[Neoteny]

I was being facetious with that response, though I did go to a Skynard concert once. They didn't put on a half bad show. I've always had a mild repulsion to the rebel flag though. And, honestly, I haven't retained any sort of southern identity. It's one that I've taken up. I've only lived in the south for about half of my life, most of it during the latter half. Additionally, my parents are of northern stock (Kalamazoo, anyone?). It's honestly just a kind of facet I've added to my personality. I do a pretty good "squeal like a pig!" if I do say so myself.

[MeDeFe]

Aren't pig-squealing contests a French pastime?

[Frigidus]

Aren't pig-squealing contests a French pastime?

Hey-oh.

[Jenos Ridan]

I'm half Muslim half Christian.

How does that work out?

It doesn't, you have to be one or the other, otherwise you are neither. You might as well start your own religion then. Muslims believe in La Illha Illa Allah, Muhammad Rasool Allah which is obligatory, and you are not considered a Muslim unless you believe this in your heart (There are no gods worthy of worship but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger). This belief encompasses fully that their should be NO other gods except Allah (basically the first commandment of the ten commandments), and that worshiping Jesus (or any of the other prophets) is akin to idol worship and polytheism/paganism.

Christians, on the other hand, believe that Jesus was a god and can be worshipped and asked favors through praying to him. One god = Three gods? You have to understand the Muslim argument on this issue.

So one person cannot be half and half, it just won't work out per each other's faith. Now, Muslims can marry Christians, but they must keep true to their faith, but that doesn't make the offspring half Christian or Muslim. Under Islamic belief ALL children are born Muslim (as the term refers to the submission to God's will) and then they are taught other ways by their parents, who have free will to choose to rebel against the laws of Allah.

And if that happens, the parents have the right, some where in the Hadith, to kill any children that stray from the path.

Muslims can marry Christians, even if the Christian is already married.

The Muslim concept of the Trinity is that of Christians having three gods. We Worship one God, who came to use in the form of Jesus and lives with us as the Holy Spirit. But they are told something else entirely.

Feel free to compare the two books in their entirety, I promise, you'll not be disappointed.

[DaGip]

I'm half Muslim half Christian.

How does that work out?

It doesn't, you have to be one or the other, otherwise you are neither. You might as well start your own religion then. Muslims believe in La Illha Illa Allah, Muhammad Rasool Allah which is obligatory, and you are not considered a Muslim unless you believe this in your heart (There are no gods worthy of worship but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger). This belief encompasses fully that their should be NO other gods except Allah (basically the first commandment of the ten commandments), and that worshiping Jesus (or any of the other prophets) is akin to idol worship and polytheism/paganism.

Christians, on the other hand, believe that Jesus was a god and can be worshipped and asked favors through praying to him. One god = Three gods? You have to understand the Muslim argument on this issue.

So one person cannot be half and half, it just won't work out per each other's faith. Now, Muslims can marry Christians, but they must keep true to their faith, but that doesn't make the offspring half Christian or Muslim. Under Islamic belief ALL children are born Muslim (as the term refers to the submission to God's will) and then they are taught other ways by their parents, who have free will to choose to rebel against the laws of Allah.

And if that happens, the parents have the right, some where in the Hadith, to kill any children that stray from the path.

You would have to post that Hadith (you do mean the Hadith and not Ayah from the Quran, right?)

I am not particularly fond of the Hadith. The Quran out weighs the Hadith, because the Hadith was written by the followers of Muhammad (PBUH). I have yet to come across an Ayah that requests that Muslims should kill their children for becoming Shirks. I do know that Al-Fitnah is considered worse than killing, but I think this particular Ayah (Quran 2:193) is meant for Muslims to maintain their faith in Islam and when they are fighting the oppressor, to remember this Ayah so as they will not fall victime to Al-Fitnah (which is to say into the ways of mischief brought by the unbelievers).

Muslims can marry Christians, even if the Christian is already married.

Again, I am not familiar with this, you will have to find the particular Ayah or Hadith for me to refer to.

I can refer you to this one, which I think refutes what you have mentioned (but I am not a scholar of these things):

5:5 Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, [14] and your food is lawful to them. And [lawful to you are], in wedlock, women from among those who believe [in this divine writ], and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. [15] But as for him who rejects belief [in God] - in vain will be all his works: for in the life to come he shall be among the lost. [16]

It seems to me that the Quran says Muslims can marry CHASTE women (in other versions, this is an online version I am using from this particular source: http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/), which means that the woman to be married must not already be married (I believe this may mean either virgin, widow, or divorced). In this Ayah, it is clearly stated: ...in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions.

The Muslim concept of the Trinity is that of Christians having three gods. We Worship one God, who came to use in the form of Jesus and lives with us as the Holy Spirit. But they are told something else entirely.

The Muslims refute the concept of the Trinity, because there is only One God (La Illaha Illa Allah...). God is All Powerful, and is Creator of all things seen and unseen.

God creates things by simply saying "Be!" and it becomes. There is no procreation when it comes to God. Therefore, giving Him names, such as Father, is not appropriate, as God has no need to take a wife or to have children. He is considerd separate from His creation.

God has no gender, He is neithert male nor female. Muslims use the term He out of respect, as referring to Allah as an It, would be too disrespectful. Of course it might seem a bit sexist, but I think humans often think of an overpowering force as being male in nature, and therefore, refer to God (who has complete utter power over all our lives) as He and not She.

Christians pray to Jesus (Catholics even pray to Saints). This is considered polytheism and it is forbidden.

Isa (Jesus) was created in the womb of Mariam (Mary) who was a virgin. As God created Adam, so too did He create Jesus. Jesus is considered the Messiah in Islam, and Muslims believe in his return. But they do not consider Jesus the same as God (I have to concur).

God is considered to be apart from His creation, and never within it (as He is the Creator, separate from His creation). Jesus is considered a messenger and is not considered a deity.

The whole Jesus/Deity concept comes from Egyptian/Pharoah ideology and was picked up by the Romans who were already worshipping Mythra. So today's version of Christianity is but an extension of Roman Mythra-ism and Muslims are closer to the original Christians than what you see today.

[Napoleon Ier]

Aren't pig-squealing contests a French pastime?

Hey-oh.

What, I mean, was that some bizarre attempt at humour, or actually just utter stupidity?