suggs wrote:Religion-The most collosal waste of intellectual endeavour since...er...
Hang on. Yep,thats right-religion got there first. "Religion-The Original "Lets f*ck People Up By Imposing A Load of Arbitrary and Repressive Beliefs That Dehumanise And Enslave People" endeavour.
Yay for religion.
Shall we just call religion "poo" from now on. Granted, it has less intellectual credibility than most of my turds, but its close enough.
Yay For Poo.
i believe your post was timed perfectly to ruin the "I see what you did there moment" i was going for in this thread.
I would have missed it had you not said anything.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Snorri1234 wrote:Can anyone explain what secular humanism is? Or is it just a fancy word for atheism?
Before Luns left he did an walkthrough for the Jesus Freaks on Secular Humanism in order to prove that atheists were really religious despite their denials that they are. I guess this subject vindicates what he taught us over there.
luns101 wrote:You should be able to convert a soul from 500 yards away armed only with a Gideon New Testament that you found at a Holiday Inn!!!!
muy_thaiguy wrote:Sir! Permission to do 50 push-ups with the Ark of the Covenant on my back?
suggs wrote:Shame really. Another almost intelligent post. Atheists arent religious, by definition.
Still, good luck with your 3rd grade exams.
Well he backed up his claims with quotes from secular humanists themselves and then on the last post he quoted where they admitted it was a religion. They view classrooms as their church. Here's what he wrote in his introduction to us:
luns101 wrote:I've noticed that some of you are trying to make the point that atheism is a religion. It would be more correct to say that secular humanism is a religion and atheism is its basis. You can use these citations as you try and make your points.
Then he goes on to give quotes from secular humanists that lasts for about 4 pages and on the last page they admit it's a religion.
luns101 wrote:You should be able to convert a soul from 500 yards away armed only with a Gideon New Testament that you found at a Holiday Inn!!!!
muy_thaiguy wrote:Sir! Permission to do 50 push-ups with the Ark of the Covenant on my back?
suggs wrote:Shame really. Another almost intelligent post. Atheists arent religious, by definition.
Still, good luck with your 3rd grade exams.
Well he backed up his claims with quotes from secular humanists themselves and then on the last post he quoted where they admitted it was a religion. They view classrooms as their church. Here's what he wrote in his introduction to us:
luns101 wrote:I've noticed that some of you are trying to make the point that atheism is a religion. It would be more correct to say that secular humanism is a religion and atheism is its basis. You can use these citations as you try and make your points.
Then he goes on to give quotes from secular humanists that lasts for about 4 pages and on the last page they admit it's a religion.
I think its one of those things that isnt formalized well enough to be able to make a firm stance one way or the other. I think humanism in general is the type of set of beliefs that can be very religious in nature, if you assume certain things about religion. I also think secular humanism ends up being a home for a lot of ex-insert religion here, so some people view it more as a religion.
Sometimes i question why there is the need to brand all as religionists so to speak. I can think of two viable reasons and i think luns would have been able to argue either one of them effectively, but i question whether its that worthy of an exercise.
Neoteny wrote:Lol at "belief-o-matic," but it's kind of a boring quiz for atheists... and I doubt anyone will be surprised by my results... except for UU being above nontheist and liberal Quakers being above pagans... FTW?
1. Secular Humanism (100%) 2. Unitarian Universalism (87%) 3. Nontheist (77%) 4. Liberal Quakers (74%) 5. Neo-Pagan (68%) 6. Theravada Buddhism (60%) 7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (57%) 8. Taoism (52%) 9. New Age (46%) 10. Orthodox Quaker (42%) 11. Reform Judaism (42%) 12. Mahayana Buddhism (41%) 13. Bahá'í Faith (29%) 14. Sikhism (29%) 15. Jainism (27%) 16. Scientology (25%) 17. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (22%) 18. New Thought (22%) 19. Seventh Day Adventist (21%) 20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (17%) 21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (16%) 22. Hinduism (16%) 23. Eastern Orthodox (13%) 24. Islam (13%) 25. Orthodox Judaism (13%) 26. Roman Catholic (13%) 27. Jehovah's Witness (6%)
You got the same top 4 as me, I guess God isn't as big for Quakers as social issues.
suggs wrote:Shame really. Another almost intelligent post. Atheists arent religious, by definition.
Still, good luck with your 3rd grade exams.
Well he backed up his claims with quotes from secular humanists themselves and then on the last post he quoted where they admitted it was a religion. They view classrooms as their church. Here's what he wrote in his introduction to us:
luns101 wrote:I've noticed that some of you are trying to make the point that atheism is a religion. It would be more correct to say that secular humanism is a religion and atheism is its basis. You can use these citations as you try and make your points.
Then he goes on to give quotes from secular humanists that lasts for about 4 pages and on the last page they admit it's a religion.
Sorry for the double posts, but he is right for some athiests at least. Personally, I'm about as far from religious as you can get. I don't really think about it much outside of religion threads on CC.
Some humanists are religious, or were. (most famously, Erasmus).
Many atheists are humanists. Some are not.
But humanism and atheism are not equivalent.
Atheism-God does not exist.
Humanism-a much vaguer, broader belief in the essential decency and rational superiority of humans over everyone else.
Just for the record, I'm an agnostic humanist-the only sensible position to take
Neoteny wrote:Too bad it wasn't out in a public forum where it could be properly refuted, instead of around a bunch of people who would agree with him.
I don't think he would try to convince people in the general forums because their minds are already made up. I think what he was trying to present was just for us so that we would have a clear understanding of the subject. I actually used some of the quotations on one of my papers and got an A so I have no complaints
luns101 wrote:You should be able to convert a soul from 500 yards away armed only with a Gideon New Testament that you found at a Holiday Inn!!!!
muy_thaiguy wrote:Sir! Permission to do 50 push-ups with the Ark of the Covenant on my back?
Re: your sig-he didnt do a very good job, did he?
Wonder why he buggered off and left everyone in the lurch.
Typical 30 something bloke i guess-a selfish prick
suggs wrote:Re: your sig-he didnt do a very good job, did he? Wonder why he buggered off and left everyone in the lurch. Typical 30 something bloke i guess-a selfish prick
Neoteny wrote:Too bad it wasn't out in a public forum where it could be properly refuted, instead of around a bunch of people who would agree with him.
I don't think he would try to convince people in the general forums because their minds are already made up. I think what he was trying to present was just for us so that we would have a clear understanding of the subject. I actually used some of the quotations on one of my papers and got an A so I have no complaints
I'm interested in seeing these quotes. I don't think there's a God personally but I'll try to have an open mind about atheists being religious. Just pm me the quotes if you get a chance. No hurry
Neoteny wrote:Lol at "belief-o-matic," but it's kind of a boring quiz for atheists... and I doubt anyone will be surprised by my results... except for UU being above nontheist and liberal Quakers being above pagans... FTW?
1. Secular Humanism (100%) 2. Unitarian Universalism (87%) 3. Nontheist (77%) 4. Liberal Quakers (74%) 5. Neo-Pagan (68%) 6. Theravada Buddhism (60%) 7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (57%) 8. Taoism (52%) 9. New Age (46%) 10. Orthodox Quaker (42%) 11. Reform Judaism (42%) 12. Mahayana Buddhism (41%) 13. Bahá'í Faith (29%) 14. Sikhism (29%) 15. Jainism (27%) 16. Scientology (25%) 17. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (22%) 18. New Thought (22%) 19. Seventh Day Adventist (21%) 20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (17%) 21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (16%) 22. Hinduism (16%) 23. Eastern Orthodox (13%) 24. Islam (13%) 25. Orthodox Judaism (13%) 26. Roman Catholic (13%) 27. Jehovah's Witness (6%)
You got the same top 4 as me, I guess God isn't as big for Quakers as social issues.
Apparently god isn't... (I can't tell you how many times I've looked at wikipedia today...)
And I think I can say I disagree with you tonk. My point would be that the general social concepts that go along with, the vernacular form of the word in particular, 'religion' are such that they can be separated. I know from a sociological perspective that religion could be argued to include just about everything (in which case, I agree, "what's the point?" I'd like to hear your reasons for doing it, as all I can think of is to bring us down off our high horse, which I don't think is necessarily viable), but as far as in a generally applicable form, it's a semantic argument that doesn't really accomplish anything.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
got tonkaed wrote:I am not entirely sure what you are asking me to do, therefore i will hold off until i am more sure.
Oops... "doing it" being claiming SH is a religion. You said you could think of two reasons.
oh....i could think of two reasons why he would make the argument...i didnt say i entirely agreed with either one of them, just that they might be valid points to make.
And that sir is up for you to unearth yourself. Id rather not slander Luns publicly, not that disagreeing with someones arguments is slander, but under the rare chance that im actually wrong, id hate to put words in his mouth.
got tonkaed wrote:I am not entirely sure what you are asking me to do, therefore i will hold off until i am more sure.
Oops... "doing it" being claiming SH is a religion. You said you could think of two reasons.
oh....i could think of two reasons why he would make the argument...i didnt say i entirely agreed with either one of them, just that they might be valid points to make.
And that sir is up for you to unearth yourself. Id rather not slander Luns publicly, not that disagreeing with someones arguments is slander, but under the rare chance that im actually wrong, id hate to put words in his mouth.
I figured you probably couldn't agree, but I could only think of one. Fair enough, though.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
well i think luns and i have disagreed about the issue in the past so the reasons i would put forward for them, he may not agree with how i saw some of the reasons for doing so either.
My point would be that the general social concepts that go along with, the vernacular form of the word in particular, 'religion' are such that they can be separated. I know from a sociological perspective that religion could be argued to include just about everything (in which case, I agree, "what's the point?" I'd like to hear your reasons for doing it, as all I can think of is to bring us down off our high horse, which I don't think is necessarily viable), but as far as in a generally applicable form, it's a semantic argument that doesn't really accomplish anything.