Who do you think would win, knight or samurai?

[reminisco]

Darth Vader vs. My Little Pony

[Colossus]

it doesn't matter who wins. chuck norris could kill both of the 9 times before they hit the ground.

oh, shut up about chuck norris
anyways, as for me i don't know much about armor from around this time, but i misread the first post and thought that the knight would be sporting chain mail only, so i chose the samurai. nevertheless i've read this entire thread, and there are pretty convincing arguments in favor of the samurai.

Put down the joint, amigo. Do some research.

You are right. Hypothetical situations like these can only be resolved after hours of cold, hard research.
I have just spent three days in the British Library looking into this question and the answer is:

Knight.

All those who said Samurai - you were wrong.

Also, to clear up a few more while we're at it:

Bear vs shark: shark.
Nelson Mandela vs Dalai Lama: Dalai Lama
Giant flying unicorn vs swarm of evil fairies: Giant unicorn (death ray from eyes)

All settled?

:lol::lol:

Anyway, the answer is clearly samurai. They are cooler. Period.

[heavycola]

it doesn't matter who wins. chuck norris could kill both of the 9 times before they hit the ground.

oh, shut up about chuck norris
anyways, as for me i don't know much about armor from around this time, but i misread the first post and thought that the knight would be sporting chain mail only, so i chose the samurai. nevertheless i've read this entire thread, and there are pretty convincing arguments in favor of the samurai.

Put down the joint, amigo. Do some research.

You are right. Hypothetical situations like these can only be resolved after hours of cold, hard research.
I have just spent three days in the British Library looking into this question and the answer is:

Knight.

All those who said Samurai - you were wrong.

Also, to clear up a few more while we're at it:

Bear vs shark: shark.
Nelson Mandela vs Dalai Lama: Dalai Lama
Giant flying unicorn vs swarm of evil fairies: Giant unicorn (death ray from eyes)

All settled?

:lol::lol:

Anyway, the answer is clearly samurai. They are cooler. Period.

After running the variables through my mainframe one more time:



VS



I have to say you might - MIGHT - be right.

[Snorri1234]

Please do not use Samurai films as resources in the future, thank you.

Very important.

[reminisco]

yeah, arguing about who would win in a hypothetical battle makes me feel like Gareth Keenan/ Dwight Schrute.

[jiminski]

Nile Crocodile or Lou Ferrigno with a Swiss army knife!

[jiminski]

I think there are many misapprehensions on display here... the picture of a knight dressed in a cumbersome, impervious coat of steal is not really a true one and that of a Samurai wielding a a blade folded a million times, which can slice through diamonds is not really a true one either!

If they were both in the nude, as god intended, my money is on the Asian chap!

What you need to find for me, in order to take this to the next stage of conjecture, is data on respective metallurgic resilience! (and weight) of: 'usuable' (not display) armour! Plus used not imaginary or modern day Japanese metal blades.

the question is: can the Japanese fellow get in and is the lumbering knight impregnable but ineffective against his nimble foe... .. do we have the stalemate of wind against mountain!?

[muy_thaiguy]

I think there are many misapprehensions on display here... the picture of a night dressed in a cumbersome, impervious coat of steal is not really true one and the Samurai wielding a a blade folded a million times which can slice through diamonds is not really a true one either.

If they were both in the nude, as god intended, my money is on the Asian chap!
What you need to find for me, in order to take this to the next step of conjecture, is to offer data on respective strengths (and weight) of 'usuable' (not display) armour! and used not imaginary or modern day Japanese metal blades.

A knight's armor would weigh about 60lbs, and it would be spread out all over his body, with only little of it actually being felt (most modern day soldiers carry well over 100lbs with them on their backs). The European sword (in general) weighed from 3-5 lbs, which is not that much heavier then most swords carried by the Japanese. Also, the knight's armor was designed to allow flexiblity and durability. Often times training in them by jumping onto their horse, doing somersaults and cartwheels. Samurai armor was a bit lighter and possible a bit more flexible, but not too much more.

the question is can the Japanese fellow get in or is the lumbering knight impregnable but ineffective against his nimble foe... .. do we have a stalemate against the mountain!

The main problem is that the knights also, were quite nimble, the only real disadvantage that they might have is that their vision is reduced, but they are also more protected in this manner.

[jiminski]

Ok you changed my mind .. my money is on the Samurai.

Most of the strength of a Knights 'light' armour was in its shape and ability to deflect the projectile or blade... therefore the faster and probably more skilled, Japanese swordsman would target the joints at the elbow and cut off the knights lower arms!

game over! Sir Winalot is buggered .. "come back ere i'll bite your legs off!"

[Balsiefen]

samurai didn't use shields. their weapon WAS their shield.

the samurai sword was so well constructed, it could dispatch a European shield quickly, cutting it into pieces.

Both would be encountering a new style of fighting that they were not used to.

again, incorrect, the samurai faced the Mongols, very similar to the European style of combat.

it would be the europeans taken off guard.

Slashing a shield in half only properly works in movies. In reality, the sharpest, strongest sword would just end up getting jammed in the wood if it lunged at the middle or get deflected by the strong metel trim at the edges. As for the mongols, their style of combat was nothing like any european. It's about comparable to the samurai's simularities with middle eastern combat (which the European knights definatly had a good deal of experience with)

As for the strength of swords, neither would brake as both would be finely crafed. If your argument for samurai having stronger weapons derives from better smelting techniques, then it ,may be quite possible that the european sword would take quite a few dints, but not enough to compromise effectiveness.

[muy_thaiguy]

Ok you changed my mind .. my money is on the Samurai.

Most of the strength of a Knights 'light' armour was in its shape and ability to deflect the projectile or blade... therefore the faster and probably more skilled, Japanese swordsman would target the joints at the elbow and cut off the knights lower arms!

game over! Sir Winalot is buggered .. "come back ere i'll bite your legs off!"

You also need to look at the probability of someone being able to get a sword through the joints, not to mention, as I previously stated, that the katana, etc, were built only to cut, and the knight would normally have chain mail under the plated armor, which by itself is quite effective against slashing weapons. Plus, the European swords, although mainly used to thrust, were also used to cut. Also, Knights and Samurai trained about the same amount of time with their weapons and in their hand-to-hand combat.

[Snorri1234]

As for the strength of swords, neither would brake as both would be finely crafed. If your argument for samurai having stronger weapons derives from better smelting techniques, then it ,may be quite possible that the european sword would take quite a few dints, but not enough to compromise effectiveness.

In fact, the samurai really don't have better smelting techniques. Their technique may make the sword a little sharper, but not enough to get through solid steel.

[reminisco]

As for the strength of swords, neither would brake as both would be finely crafed. If your argument for samurai having stronger weapons derives from better smelting techniques, then it ,may be quite possible that the european sword would take quite a few dints, but not enough to compromise effectiveness.

In fact, the samurai really don't have better smelting techniques. Their technique may make the sword a little sharper, but not enough to get through solid steel.

INCORRECT. as demonstrated by this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4YMd5iz88

[muy_thaiguy]

As for the strength of swords, neither would brake as both would be finely crafed. If your argument for samurai having stronger weapons derives from better smelting techniques, then it ,may be quite possible that the european sword would take quite a few dints, but not enough to compromise effectiveness.

In fact, the samurai really don't have better smelting techniques. Their technique may make the sword a little sharper, but not enough to get through solid steel.

INCORRECT. as demonstrated by this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4YMd5iz88

You're...Basing it...Off of... ANIME!?

[reminisco]

INCORRECT. as demonstrated by this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4YMd5iz88

You're...Basing it...Off of... ANIME!?

no, that is a famous documentary. I'm surprised you've never heard of it. it's called Ninja Scroll. if you are referring to the fact that it looks different from images in Western films, well, sir, i suggest you learn a bit more about our friends in the East. and what their country looks like.

[jiminski]

Ok you changed my mind .. my money is on the Samurai.

Most of the strength of a Knights 'light' armour was in its shape and ability to deflect the projectile or blade... therefore the faster and probably more skilled, Japanese swordsman would target the joints at the elbow and cut off the knights lower arms!

game over! Sir Winalot is buggered .. "come back ere i'll bite your legs off!"

You also need to look at the probability of someone being able to get a sword through the joints, not to mention, as I previously stated, that the katana, etc, were built only to cut, and the knight would normally have chain mail under the plated armor, which by itself is quite effective against slashing weapons. Plus, the European swords, although mainly used to thrust, were also used to cut. Also, Knights and Samurai trained about the same amount of time with their weapons and in their hand-to-hand combat.

So the knight had a 60 pound suit of armour on, with a closely knitted body suit of chain-mail beneath! Coupled with that he had no peripheral vision due to his helmets design. The Samurai had a largely open-faced helmet and light weight armour.

i do take your point about training, it was one i'd considered; well if you are making a 'living' from fighting in battles, you tend to get good at it.... knowledge would be passed father to son etc, in both cases. The pursuit of Martial improvement for both codes, inevitable.

However the Far Eastern societies do tend to be more successful in micro-martial arts than European civilisations; where Europeans tended towards improvements in technology they seem to me to have set more store in individual skills of the warrior hand to hand.

This may be due to their clinging to the feudal system long after our own and their devoutness to personal honour.. who knows!? ... but let it be said that although the genius of the 'Eastern' chemists discovered gunpowder it took Western civilisations to create its more effective uses in mass and one on one murder.

so in my opinion the Samurai was more skilled .. (in the same way that my money go's on a great fighter who uses his feet, against a great boxer who does not) Naked he kills the honky.... but where are we on whether he can penetrate the armour.. we do not know!

and could the half blind man, dressed head to toe in a metal body-sock, with a metal suit over the top, actually even lay a blow on the one who's sword may not be able to penetrate the others flesh .. we do not know.


So back to stale mate for me.

[Neoteny]

I believe someone already said samurai were cooler. I concur. The rest should be discussed while completely intoxicated.

[El Capitan X]

When all else fails, settle it with GoogleFight.

Knight wins. Dispute settled.

ECX

[jiminski]

I believe someone already said samurai were cooler. I concur. The rest should be discussed while completely intoxicated.

what do you think is happening!? I have already asserted that Gladys would piss it!

[gimpyThewonder]

I'm saying knight based purely off of armor, they just simply had the technological advantage. That said a samurai would be trained to find chinks in any armor (as would a knight) and though a katana IS primarily a slashing weapon ALL sword fighting techniques have thrusting moves. plus the curve of the blade would help in reaching the armpit gap.

oh and a fully armored knight doing a cartwheel? Off a horse? Now who's getting their info from anime?

[Snorri1234]

oh and a fully armored knight doing a cartwheel?

Not the best cartwheel, but yes a cartwheel is not impossible for an experienced knight.

[gimpyThewonder]

a cartwheel, a real honest-to-god cartwheel? while holding a sword and shield? we are talking feet in the air, turning over sideways, momentary handstand cartwheel?

reallY???

[Snorri1234]

a cartwheel, a real honest-to-god cartwheel? while holding a sword and shield? we are talking feet in the air, turning over sideways, momentary handstand cartwheel?

reallY???

Well obviously not holding sword and shield, were would you put your hands?

[gimpyThewonder]

exactly! if you have to drop your weapon to perform a maneuver its rendered stupid on the battlefield and thus isn't a good argument for maneuverability. that's all i'm saying. A man in a spacesuit could probably do a cartwheel, doesn't mean its worth the effort.

[Snorri1234]

exactly! if you have to drop your weapon to perform a maneuver its rendered stupid on the battlefield and thus isn't a good argument for maneuverability. that's all i'm saying. A man in a spacesuit could probably do a cartwheel, doesn't mean its worth the effort.

The argument about cartwheel is an example of the fact knight-armor doesn't hinder your maneuverability. A samurai wouldn't make a cartwheel in combat either.