Classic map touchup, take three! Live map updated!

[jiminski]

Well if it were possible to have a white outline around the numbers then a 60% black Disc (60 % black was on the 'original' classic map used prior to the last change) would be absolutely perfect as a contrast, i would imagine.

[hulmey]

over 3400 votes, eat your heart out Mr.Bush!!!

think this is the day the gamers said to CC, leave classic map alone!

[Rozebud]

I don't like any of them, really. I don't play the classic map because I can't stand the colours (sorry).

I prefer maps with softer colours...the classic map's colours are too dark and saturated for me...but that's just me.

I prefer the look of maps like France, Canada, and Middle East myself (although it's a bit hard to match up the territories with the map key on Middle East).

Lorne has a good point. What if all the colors on the Classic Map were made softer, lighter, pastel versions of what they are now? Then all of the army numbers would show up just fine, without any backing circles being needed to ensure good contrast. The Middle Earth, Scotland, and CCU maps are good examples...

[jekins88]

anyone who is for the black over white, change your vote to the strongest black vote so at least black can win!!!!!

[lancehoch]

anyone who is for the black over white, change your vote to the strongest black vote so at least black can win!!!!!

This would not matter. Only 20% of all the people who voted, voted for any type of black circle. As a contrast, 26% of all the people who voted chose white 30. Therefor you suggestion is pointless. You would need some people who voted for a white circle or no circles to change their votes as well.

[jiminski]

anyone who is for the black over white, change your vote to the strongest black vote so at least black can win!!!!!

This would not matter. Only 20% of all the people who voted, voted for any type of black circle. As a contrast, 26% of all the people who voted chose white 30. Therefor you suggestion is pointless. You would need some people who voted for a white circle or no circles to change their votes as well.

If Lack can change the number outline to white instead of black perhaps they will.

[yeti_c]

It is not just the circles it is the ugly color changes and the clutter added for no reason but the ego of the makers.

If there was any real thought of questioning this change and if the community wanted it then the only two choices in this poll would be the original and the cluster you switched things too.

PLEASE GO BACK TO THE OLD MAP UNTIL YOU COME UP WITH A SUITABLE FIX THAT CAN BE VOTED UP OR DOWN AGAINST THE ORIGINAL!

As for any respect possibly owed the cartographers and their programmers? It is pretty much lost...

I find it Ironic that White 60 (new classic) is beating Black 60 (old classic)...

Therefore any and all posts I made about the people who hated the new map being in the minority - were all fully justified... I will accept apologies now.

C.

My friend if you are not 13 years old you certainly act that way.
My apologies to 13 year olds...

The irony - I get accused of acting like a child by someone who repeatedly posts in block capitals and multiple colours...

Oh you probably don't understand Irony... oh well - wait til you get past puberty and you might understand it.

C.

PS - I still stand by my comments - They have been nothing short of factual and spot on.

[hulmey]

while yeti has done alot for CCand gamers alike, i think we should show respect to him. As we should all map makers and others.

THere is a problem with this map, so lets work on it and stop hurling insults. Espically to great and respected player like yeti!!

[Freetymes]

The irony - I get accused of acting like a child by someone who repeatedly posts in block capitals and multiple colours...

Oh you probably don't understand Irony... oh well - wait til you get past puberty and you might understand it.

C.

PS - I still stand by my comments - They have been nothing short of factual and spot on.

There is no irony in my hope to have an obvious good idea noticed by highlighting it. Nor does using the tools offered by programmer geeks such as yourself in the forum make any one childish. Why were you so happy to show off the new forum and all of its toys if only children will use them and it will hurt your little sensitivities??

As for the you’re in puberty naa naa response... I rest my case. You are a self important, condescending, little twerp.

Please tell me how offering so many choices, none of which the original, aids in making a decision or that you could be "Spot on" about anything? On second thought never mind and please do not answer. Your answer will just be more self-serving drivel...

[Dangerous-Die]

ok so we now have the small maps to look at as an option - -

now i ask AGAIN PLEASE CAN THERE BE AN OPTION IN THE VOTE FOR THE ORIGINAL MAP WITH NO CHANGES!!!!!!!

[Kaplowitz]

ok so we now have the small maps to look at as an option - -

now i ask AGAIN PLEASE CAN THERE BE AN OPTION IN THE VOTE FOR THE ORIGINAL MAP WITH NO CHANGES!!!!!!!

And AGAIN we answer: Black 60% is the original map!

[Russellhj]

OK, how about the old classic and the winner of the vote as the new classic?

[Kaplowitz]

This is the original Classic map with blue armies in Europe:

Click image to enlarge.

This is the original Classic map with blue armies in Europe, but the armies have a WHITE stroke:

Click image to enlarge.

Im pretty sure someone asked about that earlier in the thread

[Herakilla]

oh god that white outline is shit theres like no color left in the number

[T7]

When you are the 'Blue' colour, you go for Europe because you're not so noticable. It's like hiding in the forest before an ambush... it's the sort of thing that gives a map...

CHARACTER!!!

These white dots are all about...

STERILISATION!!!

Removing character to create an absolute fair playing field - but war isn't fair! War has different terrains (map colours), mis-information (chat) and other dirty stuff.

Give us an option to vote for the old map, or...

Give us an option to choose to play on either the old map or the new map.

[yeti_c]

The irony - I get accused of acting like a child by someone who repeatedly posts in block capitals and multiple colours...

Oh you probably don't understand Irony... oh well - wait til you get past puberty and you might understand it.

C.

PS - I still stand by my comments - They have been nothing short of factual and spot on.

There is no irony in my hope to have an obvious good idea noticed by highlighting it. Nor does using the tools offered by programmer geeks such as yourself in the forum make any one childish. Why were you so happy to show off the new forum and all of its toys if only children will use them and it will hurt your little sensitivities??

As for the you’re in puberty naa naa response... I rest my case. You are a self important, condescending, little twerp.

Please tell me how offering so many choices, none of which the original, aids in making a decision or that you could be "Spot on" about anything? On second thought never mind and please do not answer. Your answer will just be more self-serving drivel...

Ah well - at least you decided to try and appear more mature by not posting in block capitals and varying colours.

You obviously haven't managed to grasp the simple fact that the "old classic" map will not be returning... it was modified to make it more visible to a great percentage of the users here that need the changes to be able to play on the map... I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and try to offer some useful ideas in here instead of just trolling, spaming and flaming your way around the forum and making yourself look like a retard.

If you looked at the poll results - which can't help but hit you in the face... the "white" dots have over 50% of the vote... the "old style" black dots have barely 20% - and the "no shadows" version - which does look cool - but is inevitably flawed due to the fact that it's completely illegible is rather bizarrelly in second place... clearly whoever voted for that map in this poll didn't read Lacks first post in here. Also - the "old style classic" which equates to "black 60" in this poll - is losing to the replacement "white 60" which you detest so much... looks like your beloved map isn't as beloved by everyone here.

Oh - and calling someone a "programming geek" because they can actually work their way around a computer is rather a baseless accusation - I strongly suspect that you are more a geek than I - yet I can program and you cannot.

C.

[Ruben Cassar]

So when will the current map be replaced by the most popular choice in this poll?

I want to see if it gets better because the current one is unplayable for me and I haven't been adding any new classic games for this reason.

[joecoolfrog]

ok so we now have the small maps to look at as an option - -

now i ask AGAIN PLEASE CAN THERE BE AN OPTION IN THE VOTE FOR THE ORIGINAL MAP WITH NO CHANGES!!!!!!!

And AGAIN we answer: Black 60% is the original map!

We are talking about the whole map - not just the shadows !

[jiminski]

So when will the current map be replaced by the most popular choice in this poll?

I want to see if it gets better because the current one is unplayable for me and I haven't been adding any new classic games for this reason.

yes Ruben .. something is obviously afoot, as Lack took this thread off from the My Games Page. ..
i would imagine someone has come up with an idea which may make the vote, in its present format, irrelevant!
I imagine that Lack has found a way to placate us all!

Lack for President. (as soon as he sorts this bloody awful polka-dot nightmare out naturally.)

[oaktown]

I see that the talk as of late has turned to the notion of coming up with new numbers for use on CC maps. I suspect that with some work somebody could come up with army count numbers that look better than the example given above by kaplowitz (which I agree are less than ideal) but we then get into the problem of having to recreate every other map at the site because they've all been designed around the current, black-outlined numbers. The alternative would be to come up with a second set of numbers used only for the Classic! map, but I imagine Lack prefers standardizing the play features of the maps we use here.

What if all the colors on the Classic Map were made softer, lighter, pastel versions of what they are now? Then all of the army numbers would show up just fine, without any backing circles being needed to ensure good contrast. The Middle Earth, Scotland, and CCU maps are good examples...

Considering that there have been over 3,000 users voting to express their concern about the intensity of the army shadows on the classic map, I can't begin to imagine the kind of revolution it would spark if the Classic map were entirely redesigned with new colors. But I actually agree with you that a softer version of Classic! with palette along the lines of Scotland (if I may toot my horn) would be nicer to look at and easier to play on. While it features the original and most long-tested game play, the Classic map that we play on at CC is far from being the most attractive map on this site... in fact, I'd say it falls in the bottom 25%.

[jiminski]

yes i brought up the point regarding changing the numbers...

however I agree that they look awful in the example above. It is the perfect example that black accentuates the colour it borders and white over-powers it.

I have actually tried various colour number outlines:

A) Yellow around the Blue (Ukraine)
B) Swapped with White inner and blue border (GB)
C) An additional White outline only around the black outline (Southern Europe)
D) Lighter blue around the blue digits (Iceland and Western Europe using different shades of blue to outline)
The other are just white around them as in the previous example above

but none really allows the blue to be blue.

the truest result i could find is a light blue border around the current blue. Option D)
It may be possible to lighten the prominence of the black in option B) by reducing opacity of the outlines .. i am not sure if that is feasible.

Forgive my work i am no artist!:

Click image to enlarge.

I am not sure it is really an option from what i can see but i suppose it does open up a lot more possibilities for clarifying visibility, particularity when it comes to the 8 player game. (indeed battle royal could each have an easily distinguishable colour combination for each player)

If we could put to one side that we must have the 'perception' of single colours (perception, as all colours are in fact made from 2 colours as they are bordered by black!) the combinations are endless!

hehe where did the pigeons go;)

[Kaplowitz]

ok so we now have the small maps to look at as an option - -

now i ask AGAIN PLEASE CAN THERE BE AN OPTION IN THE VOTE FOR THE ORIGINAL MAP WITH NO CHANGES!!!!!!!

And AGAIN we answer: Black 60% is the original map!

We are talking about the whole map - not just the shadows !

There are very few differences, you cant say that the orange in Aussie is bad? or the new legend?

[jiminski]

The facts are:

1. A change was made with the best intention, overseen by our excellent Map Foundry and under Diktat from Lack.
2. The changes were made and displayed in the normal way in the Foundry
3. Very few people saw the changes prior to launch date
4. The majority of people did not like the changes and were shocked by them.
5. The Majority of people could not exactly identify what changes were made
6. It still remains that many people do not like whatever it was that happened.

Point scoring as to whose fault it was is not relevant (unless it goes to improving the way this was handled for next time) we are at the point where the masses will decide and Lack has said that we will get the Shadows right and then deal with the rest ... very much hoping the rest will go away, i am sure

I have been fighting for our map myself and have been quite testy all over the place but i felt the battle had reached a natural conclusion of sorts, with the vote.

I am no more happy with the Changed map staying up than anyone else but i can see that perhaps it would cause a strain to the server, causing critical mass and meltdown. (no idea what i am talking about and i am not entirely convinced myself but i just watched a disaster movie)
So maybe he needs to get the best and permanent option sorted rather than shuffling between makeshift solutions.

as much as the polka-dot nightmare assaults my light-receptors and as much as i enjoy a good verbal scrap (shut up Kaplowitz.. hehe kidding kidding).... I am trying conciliatory and productive instead angry and snotty, as i was before.

[jiminski]

Any chance of an update please Lack?

[Freetymes]

Blah, blah, blah...

Yo son this is not flame wars and again thank you but, I asked you not to supply more self serving crap!

I have offered suggestions and my displeasure both. I responded to your silly rant and childish expectation of an apology from everyone, you're such a twerp... and get more of the same from you. Perhaps if you step out and allow a debate, instead of your flames and insinuations, this issue can be solved.

Please do not respond to this, please! That or go to FW where you will not simply be mucking up this discussion and you can feel powerful.