Archipelago [Quenched]

[Mjinga]

I’m not big on the idea of any gimmicks, either, and neither is Zeak, but they have been suggested so I suppose we’re bound to look into their possibility.

If we end up having to do one, though, I like your ports idea myself.

But I’d much rather have none.

[jiminski]

Nah i think i agree, that the map stands on it's own .. probably does not need a vindictive volcano, a port, a fire breathing sea monster or roving flesh-eating porpoises which fart squids out of their arses! ... but still, we are getting the pages of the thread up .. as Gimil requested

[t-o-m]

i cba quoting you sorry - ok i will lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think killer neutrals don't stop you from attacking the territory, only from holding it for more than your turn. Thus, a player would attack the volcano, use it to bombard other territories, and then be kicked off by the neutrals. This is better than a plain bombard, but still has the issue that wcaclimbing pointed out, namely, why would a player be able to use a volcano to bombard territories? It's not like man is capable of harnessing volcanic eruptions, let alone directing them toward a specific target territory.

---
no im thinking this:
---
the volcano is a neutral - you would have to play with killer neutrals on though:
^the volcano starts neutral^ and no-one can attack it - it has no boarders, so it will ALWAYS stay neutral, then it has the ability to bombard other conts, so the volcano would randomly attack people each turn - so it adds a major gameplay twist - there would be no-way to stop the volcano doing this, you would just have to defend the "danger zones" which you could have one on every cont!
i think this would be great

[wcaclimbing]

My vote is for image 3a. I don't like the flags you added on 3b. keep the image nice and clean like it is now.

[t-o-m]

My vote is for image 3a. I don't like the flags you added on 3b. keep the image nice and clean like it is now.

i agree

[Mr. Squirrel]

@t-o-m
The neutral bombardment idea sounds alright but I don't think it is possible with the current XML, is it?

@the makers of the map
The only thing I think this map really needs is some visual updates. Find some creative way to portray the title and legend. Find some way to add some decorations to the map. (but try not to change the colors on the continents. I know that makes it hard to add some decorations, but I really think the colors work well with this map.) It's coming along well. Keep up the good work.

@jiminski
I agree with you and Mjinga all the way in regards to the gimmicks. I was just making some suggestions because it seemed like everyone wanted to put them in. And, you're right, at least this discussion is making pages. The more we have, the better the chance that this gets noticed.

[ZeakCytho]

Nah i think i agree, that the map stands on it's own .. probably does not need a vindictive volcano, a port, a fire breathing sea monster or roving flesh-eating porpoises which fart squids out of their arses! ... but still, we are getting the pages of the thread up .. as Gimil requested

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less favorably I view the gimmicks.

---
no im thinking this:
---
the volcano is a neutral - you would have to play with killer neutrals on though:
^the volcano starts neutral^ and no-one can attack it - it has no boarders, so it will ALWAYS stay neutral, then it has the ability to bombard other conts, so the volcano would randomly attack people each turn - so it adds a major gameplay twist - there would be no-way to stop the volcano doing this, you would just have to defend the "danger zones" which you could have one on every cont!
i think this would be great

That's basically what we were thinking, except in your version the volcano is a territory that no one can attack, and in ours it's just a geographic entity, not a territory. The major problem with this is that it can't be done with the current XML, and I really don't think support for it is strong enough to warrant asking for an XML modification.

My vote is for image 3a. I don't like the flags you added on 3b. keep the image nice and clean like it is now.

That seems to be the general trend. Version 4 will be based off of 3a.

@the makers of the map
The only thing I think this map really needs is some visual updates. Find some creative way to portray the title and legend. Find some way to add some decorations to the map. (but try not to change the colors on the continents. I know that makes it hard to add some decorations, but I really think the colors work well with this map.) It's coming along well. Keep up the good work.

Thanks
We'll work on the title and legend for version 4. We're trying out some doodad stuff on the continents now, but it's not looking that good. We'll keep working at them for version 4.

Thanks everyone for commenting and getting the post count up. Version 4 will be posted...soon?

[Mjinga]

I'm sorry about not having the update yet, but I've been wiped the past bit. I will have it by tomorrow.

Appreciate the support for the map.

[wcaclimbing]

whenever you put up your next update, could you edit the thread title to include the date the update was posted?

make it somehting like "Archipelago V# updated 5/1/08 (pg. 1 & 5)"

It makes it easier for people browsing through looking for whatever was recently updated.

[ZeakCytho]

whenever you put up your next update, could you edit the thread title to include the date the update was posted?

make it somehting like "Archipelago V# updated 5/1/08 (pg. 1 & 5)"

It makes it easier for people browsing through looking for whatever was recently updated.

Yeah, sure thing. I had the date in there for a while. I forget why I took it out...

[bryguy]

---
no im thinking this:
---
the volcano is a neutral - you would have to play with killer neutrals on though:
^the volcano starts neutral^ and no-one can attack it - it has no boarders, so it will ALWAYS stay neutral, then it has the ability to bombard other conts, so the volcano would randomly attack people each turn - so it adds a major gameplay twist - there would be no-way to stop the volcano doing this, you would just have to defend the "danger zones" which you could have one on every cont!
i think this would be great

That's basically what we were thinking, except in your version the volcano is a territory that no one can attack, and in ours it's just a geographic entity, not a territory. The major problem with this is that it can't be done with the current XML, and I really don't think support for it is strong enough to warrant asking for an XML modification.

t-o-m apparently we think alike.... anyways ive already submitted that idea to the XML Ideas & Modifications thread.


and zeak, u realize that the poll hass 5 no's to 2 yeses?

[ZeakCytho]

and zeak, u realize that the poll hass 5 no's to 2 yeses?

6 nos, 2 yeses, and 2 others. So, no gimmicks it is. Thanks to everyone who voted. Version four will be up later today, unless something terrible happens.

[Mr. Squirrel]

*Prays nothing terrible happens*

[ZeakCytho]

Well, it's not quite still May 1st, but the update is here somewhat on-time

Version 4 (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

Updates in this version
1) Flags Removed (Version 3a used instead of 3b)
2) Doodads added to Thres.
3) Legend box redone as an island
4) Title display altered

Points of Discussion
1) You guys like the doodads on Thres? We figured Thres will be the hardest continent color-wise to get them to look good on, so we only did them there for now. Personally, I think they look hideous and conflict with the style of the map, but what do you guys think?
2) The new legend box, like or not?
3) The new title, like or not?
4) New bonuses look good?
5) Attack lines all sorted out as per greenoak's request back in v2? (Never got an answer on this)
6) Total number of territories...this was mentioned once, but there was no discussion of it. Basically, right now in 2 and 3 player games, each player starts with 12 territories, so the first player gets a 1 man advantage since he can lower the bonus of the other people easily. I've tried to get a discussion on a better number of territories to start with, but this has sparked no interest yet. Any comments on this?

Based on the poll results, we will not be implementing any gameplay gimmicks regarding the volcano.

[Mjinga]

It's still May 1st here.

Aww, thanks, Mr. Squirrel.

To explain the massive failure to have any good terrain features... I can't think of a style that fits, so I just put some of the crap that I came up with in for demonstration of the sort of...well, crap that was all I could come up with. That's supposed to be a city, the boxy thing, and the others are like... failed trees.

Excruciatingly bad, isn't it?

My problem is that the islands are viewed from directly overhead, and I can't make trees look like anything but green blobs from that angle, because...well, trees are green blobs from the height that the mountains are viewed at.

If anyone has any ideas, I'll gladly take them and give it a run, but if not, I move to scrap any extra doodads and leave it simple.

[jiminski]

1. yeas i hate the doodlespoodles!
I think the image is elegant and spolied by interruption (i suppose it might work with very simple more symbolic images (like on a slot machine/one armed bandit/poker machine/ fruit machine .. the thing you put money in press a button and pictures of cherries and grapes steel your money)

Or more cartoony
but i think all images change and sully the overall feeling of the map. (hahah .. i realise those images are crap but i hope they illustrate something )

2. I really like the Legend box, very nice.. it is a little tough to read though. Particularly the blue of Isris.
3. Sorry i do not like the title as much as before .. it seems a little disparate and messy to me.
4. Bonus's look fine*
5. Ok on attack lines
6. Personally i think i would favour 3 more territories, bringing it to 40- then 4 man games would be excellent and you could even get a quick 6 man game in with 4 neutrals.
I chose 40 as it is only 3 more territories would not upset the balance of spread of the map too much; you could simply split 3 of the large territories. *this of course would effect the bonus'

[t-o-m]

@t-o-m
The neutral bombardment idea sounds alright but I don't think it is possible with the current XML, is it?

yes it is i think
---
the update - the title is hard to read on the "A"
the legend is very hard to read
the title little islands and the key are very jaggered, maybe soften them a lil bit, but this isnt too bad
what have you done to the bottom right cont! put it back to noraml it looks weird like that!
-
basically just mod the title so its more readable, and add a few more islands around the "A" area

[ZeakCytho]

Well, I tried to make a poll about the doodads and failed miserably. I imagine if anyone was viewing the topic then it would have been hilarious. For some reason, the poll comes out with 9 options, each option that I put in in triplicate. Anyone know why this is? I started with an empty poll-option-box and only put three lines in.

In any case, no poll on the doodads for now. Sorry guys, you'll just have to voice your opinions/suggestions in the thread. Mjinga says she's very embarrassed about her horrible failure to make good doodads, so v5 will be done without them unless you guys suggest a change that makes them look significantly better.

We're fixing the legibility of the legend box/island (making it black font with a colored glow and changing the color of the island). The title is being fixed for v5 as well.

We're going to wait for more suggestions on the territory numbers before adding any.

@ T-o-m - the Thres continent is covered with Mjinga's attempts at doodads

[wcaclimbing]

I love what you did with the title. it looks great!
I don't love the doodles on Thres.... I liked the clean, solid color look it had before.

Could you make the bonuses text a bit bigger? It looks good, but some of it is difficult to read because it is so small. You've got quite a bit of extra space down there. It wouldn't hurt to make the text a bit bigger.

[Ruben Cassar]

Nice looking map. Well done.

The text in the legend is not very legible though. Can you do something about it? Maybe the font is not right or it is too small.

[ZeakCytho]

Version 5 time! This was a fast turnover, enjoy.

Version 5 (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

Updates in This Version:
1) Legend box/island color and shape changed
2) Legend box/island font changed
3) Title font/layer effects altered
4) Mountain on Bishan slightly altered.
5) Doodads removed

To Do:
1) Curve the new attack lines so they look better once the territory connections are finalized

Points of Discussion:
1) Doodads were removed. Anyone have a problem with this? It seems the general opinion of them was negative.
2) The Title was changed, again. Wcaclimbing, we saw your post after the title had been changed already. So, you guys prefer this title, the last version (with colored islands around it), or the old one?
3) Total territory number discussion still needed.

[Ruben Cassar]

Version 4's title was more original. Stick with that one.

[wcaclimbing]

yeah. put back the islands around the title. that was much more awesome than this new one.

[InkL0sed]

I've just noticed -- the coasts are waay too angular to look at all realistic.

[Mjinga]

Ruben Cassar and wcaclimbing: Thanks! I'll work on it.

InkLOsed: I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. This real-life map of Norway, this satellite photo of Europe, this satellite photo of the island of Kahoolawe, and CC's own Scotland map all demonstrate very jagged coastlines.