FORGEt IT

[Tieryn]

EXTRA! EXTRA! Comedic addition of t provides chuckle for frustrated map maker!

So, I'm going on hiatus for a while, because a lot of the joy I used to get in contributing to an excellent site, aside from the actual playing of the game, has been reduced. This has been through a number of factors, but one of the major ones, and I see it in the (eyes?) of [some] other mapmakers is the stress and under appreciation/lack of feedback/changing and growing requirements that seem often more in the general bureaucratic red tape sense rather than from any directed need. In particular for me, my keyboard map, which was fairly close to a stage (sure, even if it was made from a photo, it still looked pretty reasonable to the general audience) where it could have been taken further, and even more annoyingly (especially since it was less personal), the hypercube map, which is a FANTASTIC map and had PLENTY of support, but will unlikely see the light of gameplay, since the mapmaker lost interest because of no progress or forseeable/useful support/feedback and hope was lost, and the eyes dimmed, and a great map sinks slowly into the mists of time, not because it wasn't great, and wouldn't have been a LOT of fun to play,a nd wouldn't have contributed a lot to the site, but simply because not enough was done to support a fledgeling mapmaker who jumped through MANY MANY hoops, continually, to little appreciable effect.

If the foundry wants to continue to grow and operate as successfully as it has to this date, Something needs to change. I don't claim to have the answers, and frankly, I don't have time to go looking at the moment. That's one of the reasons I'm leaving for a while.. but there are lots of things I make time for, because I enjoy them, and because I feel reward for the work I do, and because they generally make me feel good. I can't think of the last time working in the foundry did that for me, and that disappoints me. This should be a positive place of encouragement, and growth. Hell, it's meant to be a place of creation. I think it's really taken on it's name, and turned into a dull, repetitive factory that saps your will to live (hah, okay, maybe I"m a little dramatic at times, but ... get the concept, don't focus on the words).

Really, I'm not actually -that- negative. But I think by saying these things and amplifying my mood I'll be able to encourage more discussion that will hopefully stir the air around here and maybe clear things up a bit so we can all breathe easier, and enjoy the scent of wonderful map making. If the problem is not enough people, then get more people. The site has grown exponentially since I've been here, but the foundry seems to have progressed at a linear, if not constant pace... Or is this all in my imagination? If so, feel free to tell me so...

[bryguy]

eh all i know is that i started seeing that maps werent really progressing that well, so i try to comment on every map thats being worked on.

one of the major ones, and I see it in the (eyes?) of [some] other mapmakers is the stress and under appreciation/lack of feedback/changing and growing requirements that seem often more in the general bureaucratic red tape sense rather than from any directed need.

well u wont see stress in my eyes from making maps, just from me not being able to sleep, to read all of your post i was like



eh anyways, hope you'll come back soon!

[Ogrecrusher]

The keyboard map was never going to make the standard required while you were using a photo. It just looked awful. Perhaps there is a lot of red tape, but it doesn't take a good map very long to get through it.

[bryguy]

The keyboard map was never going to make the standard required while you were using a photo. It just looked awful. Perhaps there is a lot of red tape, but it doesn't take a good map very long to get through it.

especially with big scissors!


those help alot


anyways.... idk if i said it or not, but we'll miss ya, and i hope ya come back soon

[mibi]

yes, the map making honeymoon period is swift indeed. the real relationship is fraught with bickering and endless compromise. but we hang in there for the sake of our cartographic children who one day, will makes proud when they graduate into live-play, where they take on a life of their own. The commitment is certainly is not for everyone, as there are many map makers who are divorced from the process.

[bryguy]

yes, the map making honeymoon period is swift indeed. the real relationship is fraught with bickering and endless compromise. but we hang in there for the sake of our cartographic children who one day, will makes proud when they graduate into live-play, where they take on a life of their own. The commitment is certainly is not for everyone, as there are many map makers who are divorced from the process.

you make it sound like map making is a bad thing.....

[cairnswk]

A little vacation time is needed by everyone in here Tieryn.
Good luck and hope to see you back again shortly with renewed vigor.

[TaCktiX]

I know how you feel Tieryn. I've heard the gamut of various suggestions in relation to my map of The Citadel. And if I hadn't taken a select few of them and run with them, my map would not be as far along as it is right now (just compared Versions 7 and 8, and you'll see what I mean). My computer crashing has put me on a forced hiatus from working on either of my present maps, so I'm taking a vacation too.

Now as a person who has delved through every single post of your QWERTY Keyboard map, I know what your problems with that map have been. Gameplay-wise, you seemed way too quick to add anyone's suggestions for key combos, resulting in a big huge mess of bonuses that would have been horrifically unbalanced in any play setting. Graphics, you let the vocal but less adept majority dictate how long you stuck with the grainy photo. Know who the graphics gurus are, listen to their suggestions, and craft those into your map. It was a single suggestion by mibi that provided me the creative impetus to create Version 8's much cleaner look, while I was not being complained to that much about the myriad of things I changed in that version, only about text readability. In sum, all comments are not created equal. Know the people who know what they're talking about, and bias your map versions based on what they say.

Best of luck on the break, Tieryn, and I hope you come back and finish QWERTY soon (and resurrect Hypercube, please, I like the entire concept).

[Tieryn]

Thanks guys,

I was trying not to make that a whinging post, as I do understand the quality controls and agree that not all comments are created equally, the other angle I was hoping to encourage was perhaps more activity in the higher ranks, for providing that support and pushing things forward. Giving those comments are are more than comments, and actually insights into further development. Bry, I think that's a great thing you're doing, commenting on every map. Keep it up, I only wish that more could happen earlier, but I suppose that is the nature of the beast.

Don't think I'm bitter, and I will be back, but yes, I think I just need that break to let my head return to a normal level It's been pretty full on for a while. I tend to dive headfirst into things (and that was a great assessment of the QWERTY process by the way TaC but I wish we could find a way to harness that enthusiasm and energy, and bring it to a head, but I guess that is the process of creation... It doesn't stop just because I'm out of energy heh.

Oh well, I'll definately be back, and looking to keep QWERTY and Hypercube on the lookout, as I really would like to play them as maps. Keep up the great work folks and I'll see you all when I've got a bit more time, and a bit less background noise

[t-o-m]

is the title meant to be a pun?
FORGE IT!
or forget it?
gd pun!

[rocky mountain]

is the title meant to be a pun?
FORGE IT!
or forget it?
gd pun!

EXTRA! EXTRA! Comedic addition of t provides chuckle for frustrated map maker!

[t-o-m]

is the title meant to be a pun?
FORGE IT!
or forget it?
gd pun!

EXTRA! EXTRA! Comedic addition of t provides chuckle for frustrated map maker!

lol thanks, i only skim read the post

[bryguy]

is the title meant to be a pun?
FORGE IT!
or forget it?
gd pun!

EXTRA! EXTRA! Comedic addition of t provides chuckle for frustrated map maker!

lol thanks, i only skim read the post

wow i just got that...


so the title is really:

FORGEt IT???


edit: wow it lets u do a size 1 letter? cool

[t-o-m]

edit: wow it lets u do a size 1 letter? cool

i know!
i found that out the other day!
bryguy is gay
good pun

[yeti_c]

bryguy is gay

The pair of you are stoopid. Now please quite spamming up this thread with your Diarhoea.

C.

[gimil]

The two of you are really driving me up the wall. Try me, I dare you.

[paulk]

I was getting sick and tired of all the little bickering, so I lost interest in continuing making the Hypercube.
It felt like whatever I did it was never enough, and having to chase the "GOD"s of the mapmaking getting their ass over even looking at the maps progress because they were "too busy" to even look at it.

Finally I said f*ck it.
It was not fun anymore.
Too much shit for nothing and during the time I see other maps, many of them simple and with obvious flaws, too little areas (one of the complaints about my baby, the small cube) or bad bad bad colors sail through.

It was not far for me to believe that the people in decision position favor their friends that already have done a map or two before, overseeing faults.
Well, this is just plain wrong and I wont have it.
It's not like I am getting paid to spend hours on miniature details. I just wanted to play on a map that I not could find in the map selection, but I guess I wasn't friends with the right people and I don't like licking ass.

So good luck and all that. You will certainly need it.
Putting people in leading position that kill all the joy.
I just wish I had realized it from the beginning and not put so much work and hope into it.

Maybe some people were just jealous that they had not come up with the cube idea themselves....

[WidowMakers]

Maybe some people were just jealous that they had not come up with the cube idea themselves....

Actually I really don't like the idea. it has never interested me at all. That is why I never posted. Nothing personal, but symmetrical maps have not done the best on CC. It is probably not that you have done anything wrong but just the fact that the map idea is not good.

I remember my first map. It was a rubix cube theme. I spent many hours making the images and thinking over the gameplay. Then I posted it and most people said it sucked and was dumb. SO then I made KOTM. Don't give up. Not all ideas are good and not all ideas will make it.

I tried to make DNA map too.
Again i spent the time and several people liked it but ultimately it was a no go.
Because it was a bad idea and got no support.

So maybe the reason the map has died is not that there is some big issue with other map makers purposely ignoring you. Maybe it is hard to get others to come in and talk about a map because they don't care about it.

A while back people started complaining about comments like "i think this map is dumb" or "I don't like the idea, you should stop". So instead of posting and saying a map is bad or they don't like it, they simple don't post and if there are enough others that do like it, the map will eventually be done. But if no one posts, it probably means that no one thinks it is a good idea.

So just walk it off, leave the Cube to die and make a new map. See it people like that idea and then keep going.

WM

[lanyards]

Yeah, I agree with Widows, I don't think playing on a cube would be too much fun.

--lanyards