We childish CC atheists have a question

[OnlyAmbrose]

I don't think Greg is being an ass, or taking a holier than thou posture. I think he's talking from his own experiences. In fact, I'd say his confession is rather humbling and empathic. Seems to me like he's trying to say that he's felt the same things that you're feeling.

Could he have worded it in a softer way? Certainly. But I don't think that what he said should be exaggerated.

[Frigidus]

Would it be better for me to lie so your precious feelings don't get hurt? Dream on! Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it wrong. I admit the last part was an assumption based on my own experience (which would be true in some cases) but as for the rest, it's only speeking the truth. Deal with it.

By speeking the truth do you mean <Stops>. You know, it's just not worth it. I don't need to point out how fail his post was, it's obvious. Better things to do.

[protectedbygold]

I don't think Greg is being an ass, or taking a holier than thou posture. I think he's talking from his own experiences. In fact, I'd say his confession is rather humbling and empathic. Seems to me like he's trying to say that he's felt the same things that you're feeling.

Could he have worded it in a softer way? Certainly. But I don't think that what he said should be exaggerated.

I agree. He was in a difficult part of his life and he turned to religion as a way to deal with it. While I don't share his faith or how he went about changing his life, it is certainly nice to see someone humble enough to share a difficult life experience. Thanks Greg & ignore those who judge you.

[Neoteny]

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

Guys, perhaps you are unable to view this from an atheist's perspective, but this is where the pretentious ass part comes in, and where I suggest he holds his tongue. Trust me, I've said similar things to religionists, but at least I've got the minerals to admit I'm a pretentious ass.

[Gregrios]

Would it be better for me to lie so your precious feelings don't get hurt? Dream on! Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it wrong. I admit the last part was an assumption based on my own experience (which would be true in some cases) but as for the rest, it's only speeking the truth. Deal with it.

Neo, I guess you missed this post. Maybe you should do some reading before you comment. That way you won't look like a total bonehead.

[Dancing Mustard]

Maybe you should do some reading before you comment. That way you won't look like a total bonehead.

If only it was as easy to take advice as it was to give it...

[MeDeFe]

So let's focus on the first part then.

Yes, I went from living a selfish, ignorant, and arrogent life to living as a believer in GOD THE ALMIGHTY!

Great! But I really don't see how the two are mutually exclusive, I'm not implying that you still are all the former, I'm just saying that I see no inherent conflict with being an arrogant, selfish, ignorant believer in an almighty god.

I was in jail for a month when I made this life changing decision. It was due to clear thinking as it was the 1st time in 8 years previous that I was off the weed.

Clear thinking led me away from taking what I had been told from early childhood for granted and towards agnosticism and subsequently atheism. Maybe clear thinking can take you to a lot of places, I guess you clearly assessed your situation and decided you needed to change your way of life and grabbed the first catalyst that came your way, which turned out to be religion, I do not doubt that you could have done it without religion as well.

When I was on the weed lots of thoughts of our existence went through my head but all seemed ridiculas once my mind was cleared of the foggyness that weed so perfectly provides.

Weed gives you nice fuzzy feelings but it's not something I'd do regularly (what's it been? 8 years now?), and I wouldn't smoke it, I know what smoke does to ones lungs. While drugs in moderation might contribute positively to artistry, I doubt they are beneficial to evaluating ones overall situation and to philosophical ponderings, so I can definitely see how you being off Marihuana contributed to this drastic reevaluation and restructuring of your life.

Does that answer your question?

In a way, it tells that you changed your way of life at one point and that you got religion at the same time.


And the second part as well, just because I'm enjoying myself.

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

I know you later admitted that "the last part" was an assumption, but you're really assuming a bit much here. Achy feelings? Negative. Thoughts? "Sounds like he was a petty criminal and isn't any more, that's great." Checking for Denial... Denial not found. If you make an assumption this large, at least make it clear, I know I try to do that, if I always remember to is an other question.

No one ever said the truth would be easy to accept.

And this is almost definitely not an assumption at all and it's part of "the last part". You're referring to the achy feelings and thoughts of denial and the truth is probably meant to be that there's a god and we atheists all don't want to believe in him. Do I assume correctly?
This is the holier-than-thou attitude mentioned earlier par excellence. You have the truth and everyone who does not agree only does so out of spite or because they don't want to see it, although they deep down know that you're right and they're wrong. That's how this part comes across, and without even a hint at assumption.

[Neoteny]

Would it be better for me to lie so your precious feelings don't get hurt? Dream on! Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it wrong. I admit the last part was an assumption based on my own experience (which would be true in some cases) but as for the rest, it's only speeking the truth. Deal with it.

Neo, I guess you missed this post. Maybe you should do some reading before you comment. That way you won't look like a total bonehead.

Your density would make even lead jealous. Don't flatter yourself into thinking that your posts have any bearing on my emotions. Still, your claims to know the truth just add to the already mountainous perception that you think you are better than everyone else. It's ok, though. Many religious people can't realize that the fact that the idea of an exclusive heaven or hell makes them elitist in the sense that they think they are better than everyone else. Reason why religious practitioners scare me #24...

[jonesthecurl]

One of my favourite cartoons showed a street evangelist with a sign that said

"HA HA I"M SAVED AND YOU"RE NOT!"

[Zaqq]

Still, your claims to know the truth just add to the already mountainous perception that you think you are better than everyone else. It's ok, though. Many religious people can't realize that the fact that the idea of an exclusive heaven or hell makes them elitist in the sense that they think they are better than everyone else. Reason why religious practitioners scare me #24...

K its nice to know that yall care about your religion, but, uhh...., it seems the discussion has degenerated somewhat into insulting one another's beleifs. Neo points out exactly what I wished to: the part where Greg says that the truth is difficult to accept. That was an arrogant thing to say and that does not make Greg an arrogant person. In fact, I'm glad that he beleives in his God cuz if he didnt that would be one sorry-ass fool to call himself Christian. I just want to say that some of us have put a HELL of a lot of thought into our religions, not just you. And to assume you know God or Allah or Yaweh or Vishnu or the Big Bang or the workings of the eternal circle-thingy that Bhuddists adhere to or Zeus or friggin Elvis any better than the rest of us is a misguided thought, my friend. I myself am agnostic (I think) as I find it impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any god or a big bang and therefor just go through life assuming that if there is a God, or several, that gave me my reason it should be no surprise to THEM that I have arrived at this conclusion and they can hardly reprimand me for ignoring what i feel personally is my better judgement to do what I ssee my friends and family do everyday: follow whatever religion they were brought up in without so much as a second thouught. If there is no god, well it sucks cause heaven would kick ass but I can hardly complain cuz ya know what? I'll cease to exist, so what? WELCOM TO FRIGGIN PLANET EARTH BIATCHES!!!!

So, if you think this is all to organized for chance, fine. If you think Jesus was the world's best charlatan, big whoop. But bottom line, at least think it through before you blindly batter another human being for their beleifs. Challenge them as best you can on their religion, but never ever assume that you could ever possibly even comprehend the "truth" even if fucking George Washington shows up and tells it to you himself. God is smarter than you, and so is mother nature. They will never let you forget it.

[Snorri1234]

In fact, I'm glad that he beleives in his God cuz if he didnt that would be one sorry-ass fool to call himself Christian.

Well duh.

[Zaqq]

In fact, I'm glad that he beleives in his God cuz if he didnt that would be one sorry-ass fool to call himself Christian.

Well duh.

You might be surprised how many "Catholics" I know that wouldn't think there was a God if lighning stuck the guy sitting in the pew next to them. Well... maybe not many, sure. But some people do just blindly beleive what they were raised as, and back when I used to philosophically debate their own religion (I was actually still Catholic in Middle school, which was when I started asking questions, as it were) they would argue for five minutes, degenerate to repeating themselves, then ask why I cared if it was my own religion, why argue with it? WTF, man! I would think that someone in Gregorio's experiences would be able to do better than that.

Too many don't beleive in their God, they beleive in their religion. Or more appropriately, they don't know their religion, but trust their parents and the people who taught their parents and those that taught them so on and so forth enough to simply go with it. I doubt many with G's experience would be so foolish.

[Gregrios]

In fact, I'm glad that he beleives in his God cuz if he didnt that would be one sorry-ass fool to call himself Christian.

Well duh.

You might be surprised how many "Catholics" I know that wouldn't think there was a God if lighning stuck the guy sitting in the pew next to them. Well... maybe not many, sure. But some people do just blindly beleive what they were raised as, and back when I used to philosophically debate their own religion (I was actually still Catholic in Middle school, which was when I started asking questions, as it were) they would argue for five minutes, degenerate to repeating themselves, then ask why I cared if it was my own religion, why argue with it? WTF, man! I would think that someone in Gregorio's experiences would be able to do better than that.

Too many don't beleive in their God, they beleive in their religion. Or more appropriately, they don't know their religion, but trust their parents and the people who taught their parents and those that taught them so on and so forth enough to simply go with it. I doubt many with G's experience would be so foolish.

What a breath of fresh air. You're the 1st person on CC that I've seen that studies the Gnostic Scriptures. I'm not saying you're the only one but just the 1st I've seen.

I think you're presuming that I'm a Christian when in fact it's more of a case of just believing in God. I don't and probably never will accept just one religion. I don't feel that it's as important as just believing in the almighty God. As it is now I study the Bible, Gnostic Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon. I personally find that these 3 sets of scripture all support each other.

You see, the way I came to find God was with almost no outside help what so ever. The only outside help that I might of had is being around a majority of Christians as it led me to read the Bible 1st. This only left me thursting for more knowledge. That's when I looked into the Gnostic Scriptures and Book of Mormon.

I agree with your thoughts on religion as it is regarded now a days. It does seem to be more about the name of the religion or it's paticular beliefs then about actually knowing God. The thing that really bothers me is how on a dayly basis I see God being used as a simple punch line from people who go to church every Sunday.

In my opinion, God has taken a back seat to the vanities of religious belief.

[Frigidus]

You might be surprised how many "Catholics" I know that wouldn't think there was a God if lighning stuck the guy sitting in the pew next to them. Well... maybe not many, sure. But some people do just blindly beleive what they were raised as, and back when I used to philosophically debate their own religion (I was actually still Catholic in Middle school, which was when I started asking questions, as it were) they would argue for five minutes, degenerate to repeating themselves, then ask why I cared if it was my own religion, why argue with it? WTF, man! I would think that someone in Gregorio's experiences would be able to do better than that.

Too many don't beleive in their God, they beleive in their religion. Or more appropriately, they don't know their religion, but trust their parents and the people who taught their parents and those that taught them so on and so forth enough to simply go with it. I doubt many with G's experience would be so foolish.

What a breath of fresh air. You're the 1st person on CC that I've seen that studies the Gnostic Scriptures. I'm not saying you're the only one but just the 1st I've seen.

I think you're presuming that I'm a Christian when in fact it's more of a case of just believing in God. I don't and probably never will accept just one religion. I don't feel that it's as important as just believing in the almighty God. As it is now I study the Bible, Gnostic Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon. I personally find that these 3 sets of scripture all support each other.

You see, the way I came to find God was with almost no outside help what so ever. The only outside help that I might of had is being around a majority of Christians as it led me to read the Bible 1st. This only left me thursting for more knowledge. That's when I looked into the Gnostic Scriptures and Book of Mormon.

I agree with your thoughts on religion as it is regarded now a days. It does seem to be more about the name of the religion or it's paticular beliefs then about actually knowing God. The thing that really bothers me is how on a dayly basis I see God being used as a simple punch line from people who go to church every Sunday.

In my opinion, God has taken a back seat to the vanities of religious belief.

My personal opinions are almost the exact opposite, though I can see where you're coming from. I tend to appreciate religions, such as Confucianism, that are little more than a moral code, and have no god(s) whatsoever. I think that adding a god to a religion only gives you excuses to commit atrocities in that god's name and/or attempt to force your religion onto others. I guess I'm just sick of the members of the religious right who only pay attention to the parts of their religion that encourage conflict. They should have just left it off with the 10 commandments.

[tzor]

You might be surprised how many "Catholics" I know that wouldn't think there was a God if lighning stuck the guy sitting in the pew next to them.

I know if that happened to me I'd be reminded of an old and rotten joke about St. Peter and the sinner playing a game of Golf. "Missed again."

But it is true that many "Catholics" do not really know their faith. This results in a number of things, but exceptionally to vulnerability to those groups who are designed to "convert" Catholics by tripping them up on their lack of understanding of their own faith. Most Catholics receive minimal education at best, attend services with extreeme infrequency; barely enough to get themselves and their children through the basic "sacraments," and consider their faith a cultural tradition for the most part.

Yet this is also true for other denominations of Christianity as well. We all love the simple rote easy to regurgutate excutive summary of things and we resist afirming our belief by dwelling deeper because deep down inside we are all afraid that the emperor has no clothes. Yes athiests don't be too smug, you do this as well.

[MeDeFe]

I just saw a report on the telly which claimed that the 33% of the population in Germany is non-confessional, compared to 31% catholic, 30% protestant, 4% muslim and 2% belonging to other religions. Looks like the churches are headed downwards here.

[Zaqq]

Gregorios-
Do you beleive in Christ? Then you are indeed a Christian, my friend. You are indeed a Christian. I made no assumptions about how you found your religion either, I assure you. In your post (which was, intened or not, spliced with bigotry) you did make rather clear that God came to you, not vice versa. I am sure you had seen him around before, particulairly as a young boy, and find there is a compelling arguement that says you were misguided psychologicallly to find a God. However, the opposite arguement is just as compelling to me and since I see no way to reasonably prove either arguement on without paying thousands of maney to greedy therapists or killing myself so I am sorry if i gave off any vibes that make me presumtuous and assuming that you were Catholic or something to that effect.

BTW, I only mentioned Catholics because I was born and raised Catholic. Funny story about how little people care about their religion but refuse to renounce it: Mom hates our Catholic church in America. She notes how everywhere you go people sit, stand, murmur a hymn, sit, stand, murmur a prayer, sit, and leave as quickly as possible. So, she talks to dad about converting to the local Lutheran Church. Not that they are a whole lot better in general, but this is a smaller church nearby on the outside of town where people all know each other and sing and think a bit more about God. Dad, who has gone to church even less than the rest of us (who haven't gone but 3 times outside of holidays in as many years) will have nothing of it. He doesn't hold anything against Lutherans, or anyone else for that matter (despite being a conservative, this guy can get along with Muslims and Athiests, cool huh ) but something in him is so deeply ingrained Catholic that he REFUSES to let go. I guess mom cares more about dad than converting, so she only brings it up once in a long while now. Sad, but kind of ironic to, no?

Frigidus-
Perhaps you have not been to many of the churches I have. I went here and there about the country, and find that most curchgoers are shallow in their faith. Many almost resent going to church of their own free will (which of course is rediculous) unless their pastor is a good orator. In my local Catholic Church services, the only people I EVER heard during hymns were myself (I was a louder singer, but not quite obnoxiously so. I wanted to sing about God back then but didn't want to draw attention to myself, ya know) and one man who always outsang the other 400-1000 people in the building, AND WE USUALLY SAT ACROOS THE BUILDING. WE HAVE A DECENT SIZED CURCH!!! The only time he didn't stand out was X-mas. People sing then. But not easter, or any other pentecostal holiday for that matter. I see that southern churches get more into God, as do areas in Europe, but have heard nothing of the religiousity (is that a word) of other places. Beleive me, though. In mainstream america, at least, religion should almost always be taken at face value.

tzor-
Hey, dont pick on Catholics! My mother's Catholic you jerk!!! lol, everybody does it. I know a couple Hindus and (although I've never questioned their religion, thaaaaaat is something I learned to stop in middle school) they certainly do not strike me as people that care anymore about the Gods than anyone else. I think the culture one lives in has i bigger impact on religion than religion itself sometimes.
And who doesn't think that they have the correct religion? If I thought I was in the wrong religion, you can bet your ass I'd convert. Is it a sin to try and show others the light? I think not. Is it a sin to stuff it down their throats? Yup. Is it easy to get carried away with the first and end up with the second? Probably. So I dont ridicule those seventh-day-adventists tha tkeep showing up on my front door. I offer them water, a snack, and a seat while I argue with them. (Sorry if you are a 7DA, but you DO keep coming to my house!!!)

In retrospect I seem to have gotten carried away with my post. This is how I know I need to get laid.

[tzor]

tzor- Hey, dont pick on Catholics! My mother's Catholic you jerk!!!

If I "pick" on Catholics it is only because I am one myself.

[MeDeFe]

Yep Zaqq, that's a word, but it's spelt 'religiosity', or you could just say 'religiousness'

[OnlyAmbrose]

tzor- Hey, dont pick on Catholics! My mother's Catholic you jerk!!!

If I "pick" on Catholics it is only because I am one myself.

And I must say you look spiffy with the Knights of Columbus hat

[danvoy9787]

as a reply to very first statement posted by whoever created this:

for one if you aren't christian....you ARE going to hell....so therefore your parents are right!

Furthermore, its not very oftem you see the words "morals" and "athiests" in the same sentence...


no offense!

[Frigidus]

as a reply to very first statement posted by whoever created this:

for one if you aren't christian....you ARE going to hell....so therefore your parents are right!

Furthermore, its not very oftem you see the words "morals" and "athiests" in the same sentence...


no offense!

Whether a troll or for realz, I take immense satisfaction in being both his being incorrect and my being correct. It makes the elitist bit seem entertaining.

[muy_thaiguy]

tzor- Hey, dont pick on Catholics! My mother's Catholic you jerk!!!

If I "pick" on Catholics it is only because I am one myself.

And I must say you look spiffy with the Knights of Columbus hat

I'm counting 4 Catholics here... Is it time we go on another crusade yet? Been what, 700 years since the last one?

Also, Zaqq, about the singing and other things, it really depends on the parish you live in. The church that I go to is pretty religious and sings plenty loudly (though, not always a good thing). Trust me on that last part especially so (I was in Choir for 9 years, a Bass for 4 (including Baritone), High Alto for 1 year, and low alto the rest.).

[Zaqq]

I'm counting 4 Catholics here... Is it time we go on another crusade yet? Been what, 700 years since the last one?

No. We have to elect a catholic as president of the United States, and then have our Mighty VATICAN CITY annex those filthy sinful bastards. Then we stage another inquisition there, to cleanse god's lands that they may be fit for the second coming. Then we just us the American nukes to deal with all other heretics. ALL SHALL BE F*CKING DESTROYED FOR THE GLORY OF GOD ALMIGHTY!!!

j/k. I'm aware of the thing with singing vs religiosity (thx MeDeFe) and in no way mean to imply that they are always directly linked. Our glorious leader Pope Benedict does not seem much a singer himself. However, when you combine the lack of attention and interest with the fact that 1/4 of the congregation arrives late, blushes as they sit in back, and books it outta there after the eucharist, I think it can be safely said that our local Church is losing some steam.

P.S. I too was in choir, back in the day. Did some "All-State" stuff, but ran out of time for it and had to choose between choir and band in my high school schedule.

[CoffeeCream]

The amazing thing to me is that Protestants & Catholics, who used to be at each others' throats so to speak, are now almost forced to band together due to the hostility shown toward the Christian worldview. MeDeFe makes an interesting point. I don't have any statistics to prove this but I would say that Christianity probably is dwindling as a cultural force in America & Western Europe. But it does seem to be flourishing in parts of Africa and the underground church in China is growing so fast that the communist government is getting really nervous about it.

Perhaps the Christian message appeals to certain parts of the globe at different times in history. Most of us here speak English and live in either North America, Western Europe, or Australia. These countries are heavily indoctrinated with postmodernism. So while it may seem on this site that Christianity is in dire straits the reality is that it's being embraced in mass in parts of the world where we really aren't focused.