Stop multis from playing (Merged) [Done]

[Jork]

First I'd like to say that you guys do a GREAT job at busting cheats, and they DO seem to abound here. But please, don't allow them to score a "win" when they are busted during a game. They shouldn't be allowed to finish their game! When busted they should become "literally" inactive not just figuratively! And the win should either go to the opposoition or the entire game should be made a "wash". No points lost or gained on either side! This seems much more fair to me then allowing them to play on and have the legitimate team suffer the loss in points! Doesn't this make sense?

[HotShot53]

I would agree completely....

[lackattack]

I will make them go "on vacation" when we have the skip option.

[sully800]

Will that hold true for Premium members who are busted as multis (and given a second chance to clean up) or only for members that are inactivated.

Just wondering

[lackattack]

Good question. I didn't think it through.

I'll put off the thinking until I get closer to having time to implement it, if you don't mind

[Tarzanchuck]

So Chaka and I do alot of doubles games together. We've been getting alot of multis in our games liately. For instance, check out 1784999. There are 3 guys here that are all the same guy. It's pretty obvious. Not attacking each other, turns within 20 seconds, etc.

Now, when someone is found to be a multi, why is it that they can still finish out their games? It seems to me that the fair thing to do would be once they are found out to make all of their armies neutral and make them forfiet their games.

allowing them to finish their games doesn't punish them, it punishes those of us who play normally and enjoy the game and like to rank up. I'll likely lose 50-60 points from this game against someone who is going to be banned in 2 weeks. That's unfair.

Comments?

[Sven Hassel]

they can finish their games, because mistakes do happen, and sometimes, people got busted, when they we're innocent

[Tarzanchuck]

In that case the games should just be deleted then. No harm no foul.

[Chaka]

no matter how you try to break it down, honest players are being screwed time and time again because cheating is being allowed on CC. If the accounts are not deleted right away, and all armies in their current games neutralized, then then you're screwing the honest players.

And more so, the honest players are often the paying players, where as the multi's are not. Something needs to change here.

[Tarzanchuck]

they can finish their games, because mistakes do happen, and sometimes, people got busted, when they we're innocent

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a bullshit answer. I would wager that people are wrongly accused once out of every 30 times.

[Chaka]

they can finish their games, because mistakes do happen, and sometimes, people got busted, when they we're innocent

And this is bull. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is a multi. Look for their history of i.p. address and login's. Sometimes teammates will log in as eachother at crucial moments in a game. I've seen it happen before, talked about it with others who have done it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

It's pretty easy to see if in the last 10 games it's had the exact same pattern turn after turn, all from the same i.p. I can't see the ip's, but I can see when it's been the obvious multi pattern over a series of games/days/weeks.

[Tarzanchuck]

bumping this.

[PLAYER57832]

Lack stated in another thread that removing points for cheater's games would just be too time-consuming AND that it would adversly affect too many other individuals.


I made a suggestion that might server your sense of justice, however.

Check out the thread

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42749

[rspatel]

Sometimes teammates will log in as eachother at crucial moments in a game. I've seen it happen before, talked about it with others who have done it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Chaka - I see a lot wrong with this! You and Tarzanchuck play a lot of freestyle games. This style of game makes timing critical & it also gives you a significant advantage over opponents.

So, here's the scenario. You're at that crucial moment on the Classic map - the other team has Australia & S. America & it's freestyle. You get on as yourself & hit Australia & then fort to your teammate in Africa. Then you log on as your teammate. You hit S America & then fort back to yourself to place the troops?

[JotsHobbes]

These two did this in one of my games and even though by CC's rules this is not techincally multi accounts its the same principal imo as someone with multiaccounts. If you don't believe me check there log/game history too.

[wicked]

Tarzan & Chaka, be advised that you should only be playing each others' turns if one of you is in danger of missing a turn. Playing your teammates' account for strategic advantage is considered a violation of the multiple accounts rule. Don't make us have to take a close look at your accounts and block you. Understood? BTW, next time don't just ask random people on here what the rules are, ask a mod.

This is moved because I don't see a suggestion. As others have already stated, how we deal with multis is like that for a reason.

[jbrettlip]

Tarzan & Chaka, be advised that you should only be playing each others' turns if one of you is in danger of missing a turn. Playing your teammates' account for strategic advantage is considered a violation of the multiple accounts rule. Don't make us have to take a close look at your accounts and block you. Understood? BTW, next time don't just ask random people on here what the rules are, ask a mod.

This is moved because I don't see a suggestion. As others have already stated, how we deal with multis is like that for a reason.

Wait, I thought that "rule" never came into being???

[jbrettlip]

"
Oky doky folky.

We have come to a decision of sorts...

I moved, and the other admins agreed, to shelf this proposal at this time.

There has been a lot of controversy and very little agreement on what can, cannot, should, should not and GFY in this thread and in our private discussions.

While we recognize that a new rule is needed to curb abuse, there is also the need to maintain the casual side of playing ConquerClub.

So, what we are going to do is wait until we implement a formal sitting feature which will give you guys a much more pleasant sitting experience and us a framework in which to enforce a rule against strategic sitting without limiting casual sitting.

So, not only do you guys get to keep the casual sitting, you will also get new tools to make it easier, and hopefully a more abuse free gaming experience...but it has to wait until we can code the tools

Hopefully this is something we can live with for the next few months while we roll out our existing cycle of updates and get to this new feature.

Thank you all for your participation in this discussion. It was not always pretty, nor was it always constructive, but a lot of people got a lot of opinions out into the open.

Have a good one
Twill.


This thread will remain stuck for 24 more hours.by Twill
on Mon May 19, 2008 3:42 pm "

Hey, here is the actual ruling as opposed to the one the mod just posted. Glad I could be of help. I hate to see bad information.

PS I cleared out my inbox so I am ready for my warning.

[wicked]

What they're doing is strategic account sitting, which is a no-no. I can see how you'd be confused, but what they're doing isn't "casual account sitting", it's playing multiple accounts. Thanks for the quote, reread this part:

enforce a rule against strategic sitting

Feel free to ask twill, which I'm sure you will.

[owenshooter]

always nice when someone starts a thread about cheating, then admits to strategic baby sitting, which is a HUGE VIOLATION, in the same thread!! ha!!! hilarious!!! and once again it is shown that strategic baby sitting can only truly occur in freestyle games.-0

p.s.-where is JR when you need him?

[Chaka]

These two did this in one of my games and even though by CC's rules this is not techincally multi accounts its the same principal imo as someone with multiaccounts. If you don't believe me check there log/game history too.

Sure did happen in that game. I went camping for 2 days, and Tarzan took my turns for me. If he hadn't, I would have missed 2, possibly 3 turns, and it would have been basically team sabotage. Again, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Sometimes I hear people say 'then why did you start the game in the first place if you knew you were going out of town?' which is ridiculous. you never know how long a game is going to last outside of speed games. if you can have someone cover for you in those instances, then great. and to OWENSHOOTER, stop repeatedly slagging me for my comment. I said:

Sometimes teammates will log in as eachother at crucial moments in a game. I've seen it happen before, talked about it with others who have done it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

You don't think 'crucial' could mean when a player is going to miss a turn? Because that's what I'm talking about. There are plenty of times where I could just go for Tarzan, but if i know he's going to be on later, then I wait. If it screws us, we'll figure out a way to come back. But don't sit around here taking what I said and turning it into saying that we're turn sitters or whatever the term people are using for this. You sound like the Clinton campaign.

But thanks for the attention. If there's any kind of attention Tarzan and I prefer, it's the negative kind.

[Vace Cooper]

I think Owen is messing with you a little bit... We are true believers in the ways of babysitting partners turns.

[jbrettlip]

Actually it seems this babysitting was going on in freestyle games. So I doubt Owen has any opinion on it. I know I don't. Maybe Twill's response should have differnciated between freestyle (strategic) and sequential (casual), because they are two very seperate issues. So the new "rule" is as ambiguous as the "unwritten" rule for now. I understand perfectly!

[owenshooter]

I think Owen is messing with you a little bit... We are true believers in the ways of babysitting partners turns.

no i'm not. i just spent 20 days trying to make sure the new rule they were proposing for baby sitting accounts was fair to doubles players. one of the huge sticking points was the refusal to differentiate between sequential and freestyle team play by lack and twill... nobody could prove how sequential teams gained a "STRATEGIC" advantage in game play, by baby sitting. and now, in this thread, these guys just show how rampant it is in freestyle, by openly admitting it and declaring it standard in freestyle team play! now they are back tracking about a camping trip or whatever. like it or not, freestyle teams abuse baby sitting, and it is wrong. these two guys were just "smart" enough to admit it in a thread and declare it as no big deal. these two abuse the system, and i hope they are watched closely in their upcoming games. and to be fair, please monitor me in my team games, also...-0

p.s.-jbrettlip, there is no new rule... yet... stop drinking so early in the day if you are going to troll the forums bashing mods.

[wrestler1ump]

I feel the opposite way. I think Conquerclub is too hard on multis. The best thing would be to send a warning and maybe a one week ban, then if they are caught using multiple accounts again they must upgrade to premium as I did.