Archipelago [Quenched]

[Mjinga]

That's a very good point, pamoa. I'll move Basela up so that there's no attack line there. This also solves the problem with the "Biceror Islands" title crossing some of the attack lines as I can just move it to where Basela was. I'll see what I can do about the troop dots and the non-visibility of blue.

[jiminski]

I like everything you have done in version 7 and the green legend actually makes the Deep Green continent work fantastically well.

Crack the blue on blue problem and i'll play it tomorrow!
(Can you change the way the colouring of the numbers are built up?.. While the Classic was being debated i came up with the idea of putting the black at the centre of the digits as opposed to as a border. I then placed an additional dark outline around the troop colours.. i mocked something up before and it does work.)

this one swaps Black for blue : Original Blue is the outline and black is the center with gray as second outline in Southern Europe.

Click image to enlarge.

There may be a reason no one ever answered me and it could be because it is stupid and or impossible

[ZeakCytho]

Thanks, Jiminski. The green legend box is going, though, as it clearly lost the poll. But here's version 8 and a new poll!

Version 8 (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

Updates in This Version:
1) Attack lines near Biceror edited to make for better gameplay
2) New mountains; also, mountains poll
3) New Legend Box Area, as per results of last poll
4) Island with the text "Legend" for the legend area

Points of Discussion:
1) Any more gameplay comments?

To Do:
1) 1) Fix army circles so blue numbers are legible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll Options
The forums hate me, so the polls do not work. Don't bother voting. Please post your vote and we'll keep a manual tally.

Mountains
A)

B)

C)


Legend Box Border
A)

B)

C)

[Mjinga]

Yeah, so I was wondering if one of the CA's might tell us what's wrong with the poll? It's not like either of us is new at this sort of thing. It just won't work for us.

[jiminski]

Thanks, Jiminski. The green legend box is going, though, as it clearly lost the poll. But here's version 8 and a new poll!

That is a real shame... seeing the blend like you have it in version 7, it just looks so elegant and organic... i do not wish to be negative at all but the options we have now are a little busy compared to it.

The choice is so much different when viewed with the map as a whole.. the balance and beautiful shapes are complimented perfectly by the green island shaped Legend.

[fireedud]

C for mountains, B for Legend

[Mr. Squirrel]

I would vote for mountains A, but they aren't available in the poll. So far, I haven't liked any of the new mountains. The just don't seem to fit.

Also, I would vote for the legend C. I dislike the little islands because they make the map a little too busy in that corner, and option A just looks bad with the rest of the water. I like the white cloudyness. It looks great.

Also, you are going to want to make the Caen Islands a 2 bonus continent now that you have taken away that attack route.

[ZeakCytho]

That is a real shame... seeing the blend like you have it in version 7, it just looks so elegant and organic... i do not wish to be negative at all but the options we have now are a little busy compared to it.

The choice is so much different when viewed with the map as a whole.. the balance and beautiful shapes are complimented perfectly by the green island shaped Legend.

I agree that it's busier, but I don't necessarily think that it's worse. I think having one large island looked very weird with the glowing text, even if the island itself looked good. Having many smaller islands allows for nicer looking text, plus they can be arranged in a smaller area (excluding the border). I'm sorry, but unless other people complain that it's too busy, I think we have to stick with the poll decision. If other people do complain, though, we'd be obligated to revert it back to the one you like

C for mountains, B for Legend

Thanks for voting, added your votes into the poll

I would vote for mountains A, but they aren't available in the poll. So far, I haven't liked any of the new mountains. The just don't seem to fit.

Also, I would vote for the legend C. I dislike the little islands because they make the map a little too busy in that corner, and option A just looks bad with the rest of the water. I like the white cloudyness. It looks great.

Yeah, the poll is a major SNAFU. I've added your vote to my manual tally, though.

Also, you are going to want to make the Caen Islands a 2 bonus continent now that you have taken away that attack route.

Okay, I've put that on the to do list.

Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 0
Mountain C - 1
Border A - 0
Border B - 1
Border C - 1
Total Voters - 2

Keep posting your votes, guys!

[pamoa]

mountain B
legend C

for a good mountain technique in Photoshop check this in Map Making TTT (Tips, Tricks & Tutorials)

[oaktown]

Hi Zeak.

I'm about ready to stamp this for gameplay; not because I think it's perfect, but because it is what I think you want it to be. To me I see a map in which it will be very hard - but not impossible - for most players to hold a region, but once you do get a bonus it will be a healthy one. That's fine - not every map can or should have an Australia - but I want to make sure that it is what you are after. And then once you have a region, the circular nature of the map means there are no corners from which you can begin to build an empire - it verymuch reminds me of the Arctic map in that way, which is fine because arctic is a fun map to play.

Here are my thoughts on each region:

Biceror Isles: we can call these islands the Slaughterhouse Five, because they are going to be clobbered by everybody. Having a central area that everybody fights over could be fun once players have established themselves elsewhere. +5 is high for five regions with four borders (smaller than Bishan yet higher bonus), and a smart player will recognize it's relative value despite the central location.

Thres: should be just easier to capture than N. America in classic, and appropriately has a slightly lower bonus. If you start here you hope your opponents are busy elsewhere, and you'll be in good shape.

Caen Islands: a nice place to start; good bonus for only having to hold three borders, but since there is no obvious next take I think +3 is solid.

Bishan Island: the mountain in the middle makes this region interesting; it's a big circular bottleneck, which could make it easier or harder to capture depending on how the game goes. The +4 bonus makes it look attractive until you notice the similar regions with higher bonuses, and the four borders make it hard to hold in the face of opponents who know what they're doing.

Isris Islands: six territories, four borders to defend, bottleneck design - exactly the same as Bishan yet a higher bonus? It has one more region to defend against, but I'm not sure that warrants the higher bonus.

Vienlorne: clearly the worst region to find yourself stuck in. +6, but who cares? Five border to defend, one of which is cut off from the rest; by the time you pick up all ten territories your neighbors have secured themselves a +4 or +5 bonus and you're screwed. This is region that the smart player avoids, both to start and through expansion, because it doesn't even cut down the borders you have to hold elsewhere.

[Mjinga]

pamoa: The problem that most people have with the mountains right now is that they look too photorealistic for a an obviously not photorealistic map. Those mountains are lovely, but have the same problem. Also, your votes have been added.

oaktown: It is what we want it to be, yes.

As you mentioned, it will be a circular map without nice corners to hide in: this is exactly what we had in mind. I basically agree with your analysis, which brings me to two things I should probably ask advice on.

I was thinking of lowering the Isris bonus one, but I’m conflicted on this, which is why it’s a 5 without comment still. It goes to both Biceror and Veinlorre as well as two relatively small and easy to hold continents, whereas Bishan only goes to the two smaller ones and Biceror. However, almost no one (as it stands) will be holding Vienlorre and thus, does that really matter very much?

I was also wondering if I shouldn’t raise the Vienlorre bonus two, to +8, to make it more tempting to hold, either as a first or second continent.

Also, if you should happen to know anything about it, why does the poll system not work for us?

Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 1
Mountain C - 1
Border A - 0
Border B - 1
Border C - 2
Total Voters - 3

[ZeakCytho]

So, any more votes? Or, any opinions on the poll options? Anything at all? I won't be offended if you say the poll options look like garbage. Well, Mjinga might be, but I won't be

But seriously, we kind of need more votes. Unless you guys just want Mjinga and I to make an executive decision. But we'd rather get more of a consensus before ending this "poll."

Or some nice CA could stop by and fix our poll, maybe?

Now I'm just rambling.

Version 9, with army circles that you can see blue on, should be out soon. Also, some weird shaped islands (looking at you, Kell) will be fixed. I think all major gameplay concerns have been addressed now? Anything else for version 9 that I missed?

[hulmey]

i voted mountain c...nice job

[Mr. Squirrel]

Anything else for version 9 that I missed?

Don't forget to change the Caen Islands bonus to two. Other than that, it sounds good.

[ZeakCytho]

Right, forgot to mention that, Mr. Squirrel. Though Oaktown did say he felt it was good as a +3. It has 5 territories and 2 borders. I think +2 is better, personally. Any other thoughts on this? Actually, here's a nice list of things we need thoughts on:

1) Caen bonus: +2 or +3?
2) Vienlorre bonus: +6, +7, or +8?
3) Isris Bonus: +5 or +4?

Right now, I feel that Caen should be +2, Vienlorre should be +8, and Isris should be +4. If no one comments on these, that's what will go into version 9.

Added your vote to the manual tally, Hulmey.
Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 1
Mountain C - 2
Border A - 0
Border B - 1
Border C - 2
Total Voters - 4

With this pitiful voter turnout, I'm wondering if Mjinga and I should just use the current votes as a guideline and put what we like best into version 9, and edit that based on comments from people. I'm going to take down the broken poll now...

[Mr. Squirrel]

I think Caen should be two, vienlorre would be fine with eight, but Isris should be five. You know that Kalwar will be taken early on in the game, and whoever does take it will try to make sure that no one else around them recieves a bonus. This will make it very hard to hold Isris and Vienlorre, thus, their bonuses should be pretty high.

I think you should try to fix your poll (which I know you are already trying) before you just add whatever you want to the map. Not everyone reads through all of the posts, which means that very few will actually post their opinions on the different objects. It doesn't mean that no one has an opinion, just that no one wants to take the time to voice it. With a working poll, you should get many more votes.

[Kaplowitz]

I like Mts B the best, the legends are all fine IMO.

[bryguy]

Mountains B looks best, but Mountains C would work better for the map

[ZeakCytho]

I think Caen should be two, vienlorre would be fine with eight, but Isris should be five. You know that Kalwar will be taken early on in the game, and whoever does take it will try to make sure that no one else around them recieves a bonus. This will make it very hard to hold Isris and Vienlorre, thus, their bonuses should be pretty high.

On the other hand, Caen will also be taken early, and whomever takes that will most likely expand to either Thres or Bishan. Expanding to Thres is harder, but ultimately makes for an easier to hold bonus. Expanding to Bishan opens up more borders, but could be done faster in, say, a sequential game if the player has a mixed set. Basically, I think expanding from Kalwar to Isris or from Caen to Bishan is equally probable, so that shouldn't factor much into the bonus. Thus, Isris should be a +4 instead of a +5. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I think if Caen is bumped down to two, either Bishan should be +5 or Isris should be +4. Having two +2 regions border continents with the exact same size and number of borders that have two different bonuses doesn't make sense to me. However, if Caen is a +3, I can see a bit more justification for leaving Bishan as it is and just changing Isris.

Vienlorre will be a +8 in the next version, unless someone objects to that.

I think you should try to fix your poll (which I know you are already trying) before you just add whatever you want to the map. Not everyone reads through all of the posts, which means that very few will actually post their opinions on the different objects. It doesn't mean that no one has an opinion, just that no one wants to take the time to voice it. With a working poll, you should get many more votes.

I agree with you in principle. I tried everything I could think of to make the poll work - logging on and off, new window, different computer, etc., and nothing worked. I PMed Gimil the first time this happened in back when this was still in the Ideas forum, but he didn't know what to make of it either. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I added your votes to the poll, Kaplo and Bryguy. Thanks.

Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 2
Mountain C - 3
Border A - 0
Border B - 1
Border C - 2
Total Voters - 6

It seems most people don't care about the border, while the mountains are more hotly contested. What if we solved the mountains problem altogether by replacing the ones in Bishan with a lake and the ones in Vienlorre with a river/strait, and having bridges over connecting territories so the gameplay stays the same?

[Mr. Squirrel]

It seems most people don't care about the border, while the mountains are more hotly contested. What if we solved the mountains problem altogether by replacing the ones in Bishan with a lake and the ones in Vienlorre with a river/strait, and having bridges over connecting territories so the gameplay stays the same?

I don't think you should make the mountains lakes/rivers. Without them, I think the map will look extremely flat and have no depth to it. But, I might be wrong, and it might look fine. It is hard to tell without seeing it. Can you try to make a example quickly?

[ZeakCytho]

Mjinga can...eventually. I haven't seen her online for a while, but she's been playing her turns, so she's alive. I'm about to leave on a ten-day vacation, but Mjinga will be here, so she'll post up version 9 as soon as she finishes it, as well as a quick lakes-for-mountains example.

[Ruben Cassar]

Mountains and Legend: Both B

[t-o-m]

i dont think that any of them look like mountains, some look like a fur ball, some like other things that i wont mention, and C looks good, but isnt very visible and is basically moulded off 1 coour only

[ZeakCytho]

i dont think that any of them look like mountains, some look like a fur ball, some like other things that i wont mention, and C looks good, but isnt very visible and is basically moulded off 1 coour only

Well, I think they all look like mountains. The issue is that option A doesn't fit with the style of the rest of the map, hence the need for change. Err...are you voting for option C? I'm not going to put a vote down for you yet, but if you post again and make your favorite choice more clear, I'll add it to the tally.

I've added your votes, Ruben

Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 3
Mountain C - 3
Border A - 0
Border B - 2
Border C - 2
Total Voters - 7

[t-o-m]

yes mountain C for me