Europa [Quenched]

[Gustaf Wasa]

Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia are not in Europe.

[MrBenn]

On Hold
I've started a new job recently, and my daily commute has got a lot longer; which has meant less time at home. The development of this Europa map appears to have stalled in recent weeks - primarily as my 'lack of time' has become an issue.

Hopefully things will settle down again soon, but for now it seems wise to put this map 'On Hold' for a little while.

edit:Not On Hold!

[MrBenn]

I thought it was only appropriate to put my 500th post in my own thread!

I'm going to take this map back into development now... with this update.

Latest Version:


-I have added some texture and toned down the colours a little in the process.
-Territory and region borders have been redrawn to help the numbers fit - particulalry the Balkans
-I've been experimenting with army shadows, and am toying between the two on this version, although I think I may use both, depending on the colour of the background.
-You may notice that I've merged Caucasus into the transcontinental region (Georgia et al will remain on this map.. those regions consider themselves European, and they compete in European football and Eurovision, so they'll be staying )
-I've still got to sort out Cyprus; I'll develop the Hellenic states shortly.
-Greenland has been redrawn, although I still think it looks a little out of place.
-Territory names are absent from this update as I'm still experimenting with fonts/blending options - I haven't quite got the look/style right yet.
-I am aware that the legend needs updating.

[rocky mountain]

isn't this practically the europe map?
where's the caucasus on the map? (it is THE Caucasus by the way) you should keep them...
why does greenland have to be there? i agree it does look out of place...
they don't all have army shadows although i'm sure you're aware of that.
i think central europe should be 3 instead of 4
the ocean looks good and realistic!
the text is pretty small...
i forget if that's luxembourg or leichtenstein in central europe. whichever one, its too square and looks weird.
is that little brown area by the baltics a terit? (i know its part of russia)
ha, i just noticed that where the key is, its africa. i was thinking it was just a box thing. clever.
again, isn't this practically the europe map?

[MrBenn]

edit: never mind

[MrBenn]

Thanks rocky.

Q. isn't this practically the europe map?
Errr... yes, except that this one is accurate, and has every European country on it, and none of Africa.

Q. where's the caucasus on the map? (it is THE Caucasus by the way) you should keep them...
"-You may notice that I've merged Caucasus into the transcontinental region (Georgia et al will remain on this map.. those regions consider themselves European, and they compete in European football and Eurovision, so they'll be staying )"
I've just noticed that I haven't adjusted the thickness of the old region border. I must remember to change that.

Q. why does greenland have to be there? i agree it does look out of place...
Greenland is politically European, and is part of the Kingdom of Denmark.

Q. they don't all have army shadows although i'm sure you're aware of that.
I was wondering what people thought of them before I put them all in. I'm still trying to find a font that looks right, and the army numbers will move around once the territory labels have been refined - I wanted to save myself some work in the long run

Q. i think central europe should be 3 instead of 4
There are a LOT of territories that can attack Central Europe, and it borders 5 different regions (the Alps will block the attack route into Italy). I'd welcome more discussion about bonus values in general

Q. the ocean looks good and realistic!
Thanks - I think it's the only thing that hasn't changed from my first draft

Q. the text is pretty small...
I'm assuming that you're referring to the text on the Legend/Key? I think I can make it a bit bigger/legible - I'll rework the legend once I've got the final borders sorted.

Q. i forget if that's luxembourg or leichtenstein in central europe. whichever one, its too square and looks weird.
It's Leichtenstein, and I agree with you. I'll have another go and drawing it (and Andorra/Monaco, which both look pretty bad)

Q. is that little brown area by the baltics a terit? (i know its part of russia)
Yes and No... It's part of Russia, and the plan is to allow Russia to attack/be attacked by Poland and the other Baltic country too. I might link that exclave to russia with a brown dotted line?

Q. ha, i just noticed that where the key is, its africa. i was thinking it was just a box thing. clever.
Thanks. I was just making use of the dead space; but I can put it down to my wit and intellect

Q. again, isn't this practically the europe map?
Yes, but hopefully it will be bigger and better

[rocky mountain]

edit: never mind

?... why is there now another post?

the plan is to allow Russia to attack/be attacked by Poland and the other Baltic country too. I might link that exclave to russia with a brown dotted line?

thats a good idea, but i'm not so sure about the dotted line. it will look like it is a separate terit, being able to attack/be attacked by russia...

[sam_levi_11]

i dont like the graphics of this map, i think it should be more like the san marino map, nothing fancy but a diff style. i cant get across how much i dont like the graphics on this map. sorry.

also the names are annoying, if you didnt know europe well you would have to look up what you have and what u can attack and so on.

[AndyDufresne]

I don't think San Marino's style would work. In any case, this map needs to continue to find its graphic vision.


--Andy

[t-o-m]

the sea's size needs fixing if you know what i mean??
the round sort of circles sort of things in them need to be smalled because at the moment its making the whole map look tiny

[MrBenn]

Another Update

-I've put army shadows on all territories. What do people think about the mix of light/dark shadows?
-The borders in the transcontinental region have been redrawn slightly to make them more uniform, and help the names/numbers fit.
-Grrece/Crete/Cyprus are now Hellenic states, in a slightly paler blue than the Balkans.
-I have 'unhidden' the territory names. I like the font, but am not convinced by the shading. I would welcome some thoughts on this
-Some of the ocean routes now overlap the land, where I have moved some borders around - I'll change these later.
-The legend still needs to be reworked slightly - this will incorporate any discussion about region bonusses.

[MrBenn]

also the names are annoying, if you didnt know europe well you would have to look up what you have and what u can attack and so on.

You did realise that I had deliberatley left them off the last update?? Does that help??

the sea's size needs fixing if you know what i mean??
the round sort of circles sort of things in them need to be smalled because at the moment its making the whole map look tiny

I've no idea what you mean t-o-m... can you try and explain again?

I don't think San Marino's style would work. In any case, this map needs to continue to find its graphic vision.
--Andy

Hmm

[sam_levi_11]

I don't think San Marino's style would work. In any case, this map needs to continue to find its graphic vision.


--Andy

just saying i actually prefer the current europe's style.

[pepperonibread]

Any reason for all the names being lowercase? Maybe this was discussed already, but I think it would look better if they were capitalized.
Also, does kaliningrad oblast (between lithuania and poland) have any function? I don't think it should, just want to clarify.

[multiplayertim]

i think tom was talking about the lines of latitude but these cannot be made smaller for obvious reasons.

Is kaliningrad included in map as it's not labelled but the brown territory below lithuania is where it should be

just a political issue should Cyprus be half brown to signify Turkey's control over half the island

its not clear if link to corsica is from france or monaco, ifs it's from monaco i think it could be sorted by moving it left so it's more central to monaco, if link is from france maybe you could move link to between andorra and monaco

are corsica and sardinia connected because a dotted line runs down the west coast until it reaches the name corsica but i can't see where it goes after that

thats all for now

[RjBeals]

Well you certainly have well defined colors for this map. There should be no confusing bonus region borders here! I don't like the globe lines on the whole map. Not needed. Overall though - I think this is nice with the bold "primary" colors.

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?
Are you sure the 88's will fit in those army boxes? They look small. Could you post a pict with the 88's in place? It changes the feel of the whole map when there are armies on it.

I'm not sure about the title in the legend. It's cool - but could that image be copyrighted? http://europa.eu/ I don't think it fits the feel of the map either. I would suggest taking the title out of the legend, making the min-map bigger, and putting the "Europa" map title somewhere else.

Good Work on the smooth borders also. They look great!

[AndyDufresne]

Could you make the Key text in the bottom left easier to read? The dark on dark isn't so pleasant for the eye. (But it isn't distracting, which is what I assume you were going for.)

Edit: for Iceland, could you move the text into the water like Northern Ireland, and move the army shadow onto the territory?


-Andy

[Kaplowitz]

I dont like the texture, the rest looks great though

[edbeard]

I have a problem with one section of the map colour-wise

BeNeLux and Central Europe aren't that far off from each other in terms of colour. The difference between those would be better served to be more like the difference between the Baltics and Eastern Europe in terms of shade difference.

[sam_levi_11]

i have to say this has grown on me. whole map needs to be made bigger imo

[MrBenn]

Thanks for all the feedback guys... It helps to have something to work from. I'll attempt to put some thoughts/responses together here - I'm open to most suggestions
I'm feeling positive about the map now - something I haven't felt for some time

I think this is nice with the bold "primary" colors.

Any reason for all the names being lowercase? Maybe this was discussed already, but I think it would look better if they were capitalized.

I've been playing around with the font and I thought that lowercase text fitted quite nicely with the bold primary colours...

Also, does kaliningrad oblast (between lithuania and poland) have any function? I don't think it should, just want to clarify.

Is kaliningrad included in map as it's not labelled but the brown territory below lithuania is where it should be
just a political issue should Cyprus be half brown to signify Turkey's control over half the island

It's my intention to keep Kaliningrad in, but as part of Russia... so that Russia can attack/be attacked by Poland/Lithuania.
I'm not too sure how to make this feature work though, without a lengthy explanation, which I would like to avoid where possible.

As for Cyprus, it was brown for a while, but will be blue now... On this map, turkey is Transcontinental is it is mainly Asian. Cyprus is very definately European, and although there is Turkish influence/claim to the North, I'm attaching it to Greece/Crete as a 'Hellenic State'

I have a problem with one section of the map colour-wise
BeNeLux and Central Europe aren't that far off from each other in terms of colour. The difference between those would be better served to be more like the difference between the Baltics and Eastern Europe in terms of shade difference.

Shouldn't be a problem I'd toned down the bright orange colour, so this isn't a big surprise. Does having the dark/light army shadows help at all? Either way, I'll make that bit slightly less orange...

Are you sure the 88's will fit in those army boxes? They look small. Could you post a pict with the 88's in place? It changes the feel of the whole map when there are armies on it.

Speaking of army shadows - yes they are the right size for 88s - I'll put a couple on the next update. The boxes themselves won't fit triple digits (not sure about the large map though), but I think there's enough space for that not to be a problem.

I dont like the texture, the rest looks great though

I had a texture on an earlyish draft, which vanished during some layer flattening (doh!)! I think this one looks heaps better, and helps to tone down some of the brightness. I'll have a little play around with textures soon, and see if I can find something a bit better

i have to say this has grown on me. whole map needs to be made bigger imo

I'm glad the map is growing on you - the last couple of updates have been good for me and the map, I think. Sadly, there's not a lot I can do about the size on this - I'm already at the 630px max. width - you'll just have to use the large one!

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands? ... I'm not sure about the title in the legend. It's cool - but could that image be copyrighted? http://europa.eu/ I don't think it fits the feel of the map either. I would suggest taking the title out of the legend, making the min-map bigger, and putting the "Europa" map title somewhere else.

Could you make the Key text in the bottom left easier to read? The dark on dark isn't so pleasant for the eye. (But it isn't distracting, which is what I assume you were going for.)
Edit: for Iceland, could you move the text into the water like Northern Ireland, and move the army shadow onto the territory?

I've made the text in the key slightly easier to read, and will move the iceland army/name around. As for the rest of the legend, I think it does need another overhaul - and your suggestion will help create a bit more room in there.

its not clear if link to corsica is from france or monaco, ifs it's from monaco i think it could be sorted by moving it left so it's more central to monaco, if link is from france maybe you could move link to between andorra and monaco
are corsica and sardinia connected because a dotted line runs down the west coast until it reaches the name corsica but i can't see where it goes after that

Some of the ocean routes have been screwed up since I've redrawn most of the land borders and moved labels/shadows around. I will look at these again soon - thanks for the reminder

I think I've picked up on most of the comments here. If I've missed one, please don't be offended - just repost it in bold multicoloured capital letters as large as possible... that's a joke by the way

[MrBenn]

Quick update:

-The oranges have been tweaked to make them a bit more different.
-I've moved the label for Iceland
-The text on the key (bottom left) should be easier to read, but still not too 'in your face'
-I've put some army 88's across the middle of the map

There will be more small changes over the next few days

'To Do' list:
- The Legend - need to sort out the title, and make the bonusses easier to read.
- Define the Kaliningrad/Russia attack rule (Russia also borders Poland and Lithuania)
- Sort out the bonuses
- The Balkan States- to get a bonus for this area, I'm contemplating having a 'hold any 6 or 7' (out of 10) requirement, instead of having to hold the whole thing??
- The Med Islands - they are now absorbed into different regions, but I would still like to have a bonus for holding any 5 of them, or something??
- Find a better name for the Italy/Malta region
- Put Gibraltar back on the map
- Monaco looks wrong.
- Redraw ocean routes
- Experiment with different textures
- Sort out the 'glow' around territory labels.

[hulmey]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

[RjBeals]

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

[edbeard]

so is greece part of the islands continent?

It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.


The BeNeLux colour is better now.


I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.


I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.