Archipelago [Quenched]

[t-o-m]

and legend box B

[ZeakCytho]

yes mountain C for me

Got it.

Current Poll Results
Mountain A - 1
Mountain B - 3
Mountain C - 4
Border A - 0
Border B - 2
Border C - 2
Total Voters - 8

[Mr. Squirrel]

Now that I think about it, you should probably change the title to something other than "Archipelago", considering you have small archipelagos already in the map. How can there be archipelagos inside of an archipelago?

I can't think of a good name right now, but I'll start thinking. Mainly, I want to throw this idea out there.

[fireedud]

Now that I think about it, you should probably change the title to something other than "Archipelago", considering you have small archipelagos already in the map. How can there be archipelagos inside of an archipelago?

I can't think of a good name right now, but I'll start thinking. Mainly, I want to throw this idea out there.

I just realized he makes a good point, unless you change my definition of one, you have to either change the name or make the archipelago's on the map be the center of it.

[ZeakCytho]

Been on vacation for a few days now; will continue to be away for a while. I got a free moment so I checked up on this.

I think a name change to the two territories named ____ Archipelago would be easier. Maybe just drop the Archipelago from their name.

I honestly can't think of a good new title. If anyone has an idea for that, please post. I don't love Archipelago, but it works well. I'm definitely open to changing the title, though; I just don't have any ideas myself.

Version nine will be posted as soon as Mjinga gets off her lazy ass and posts it

[jiminski]

Archipelago is perfect as the name.

No reason to change it and certainly not based on the logic above.... Crikey we have New York, New York and Boutros Boutros-Ghali!

So why not have Archipelagos in a map called Archipelago!?


Of course you could make up a Mythical name (constructed from our map-makers names: Jingacythia) but these names become very forgettable (who can remember Tamriel or Actium unless they sit and repeat it 1000 times in their own mind to commit it to memory?)

Archipelago .. sounds exotic and classy and tropical! It has a familiar resonance... so unless someone can come up with a truly splendid name (Zanzibar is a nice name ) then why change it?

[Mr. Squirrel]

Archipelago is perfect as the name.

No reason to change it and certainly not based on the logic above.... Crikey we have New York, New York and Boutros Boutros-Ghali!

So why not have Archipelagos in a map called Archipelago!?

The problem with it is that an Archipelago is the name for a group of small islands. It isn't some made-up name for cities or territories. It describes an actual geological occurrence. It is impossible to have a group of small islands inside of a group of small islands. It is just wrong. It is like having a volcano inside of a volcano.

That being said, the name "Archipelago" is very fitting and it has grown on me. I cannot see this map being called anything otherwise. Therefore, I suggest that Zeak makes the small archipelagos just another island on the map. This way we can stick with the name we have now.

[jiminski]

Archipelago is perfect as the name.

No reason to change it and certainly not based on the logic above.... Crikey we have New York, New York and Boutros Boutros-Ghali!

So why not have Archipelagos in a map called Archipelago!?

The problem with it is that an Archipelago is the name for a group of small islands. It isn't some made-up name for cities or territories. It describes an actual geological occurrence. It is impossible to have a group of small islands inside of a group of small islands. It is just wrong. It is like having a volcano inside of a volcano.

That being said, the name "Archipelago" is very fitting and it has grown on me. I cannot see this map being called anything otherwise. Therefore, I suggest that Zeak makes the small archipelagos just another island on the map. This way we can stick with the name we have now.

meh ...
(I have never really been sure what 'meh' means in interweb-speak but i hope it conveys a certain amount of disdain at a brother map-lover talking for the sake of talking I mean that in the least offensive way possible)

[rocky mountain]

i like mountain option B and legend border B...
i have a few things to say:
the army circles on the Biceror Isles are all different it seems. it looks a little weird.
it's kinda hard to see the Iori part of the Iori archipelago.
i don't like how on the legend the continents look nothing like the real continents. i know you did a poll, but that is just my opinion.
I quite like this map. the graphics are good, and its classic gameplay!
that is all....

[jiminski]

i like mountain option B and legend border B...

i don't like how on the legend the continents look nothing like the real continents. i know you did a poll, but that is just my opinion.
I quite like this map. the graphics are good, and its classic gameplay!
that is all....

i agree about the legend.... could it more 'approximately' reflect the actual island shapes perhaps?

[pamoa]

Instead of Iori nd Lor archipelago just call them islands!

[ZeakCytho]

Not sure where Mjinga has been, but it sure as hell hasn't been here.

I'll be home tomorrow night, at which point I can address all of the things mentioned above in greater detail. For now, I think a substitution of "island" for "archipelago", as Pamoa suggested, is a good idea.

Version 9 will come out sometime before the end of the universe.

[Mjinga]

No, no it won't. It shall come forth precisely three days after the Big Crunch.

*waves* Hello people! I live! And I hate work.

Drafting up nine.

[ZeakCytho]

Woo, version 9! Finally!

Version 9 (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

What you need to know
Number of territories: 42
Number of continents: 6
Gameplay Info: Classic gameplay

Updates in This Version:
1) Changed the legend box border and mountains based on poll results
2) Renamed Iori and Rol Archipelagos to Rol and Iori Islands
3) Changed bonuses: Isris to +4, Caen to +2, and Vienlorre to +8

Points of Discussion:
1) Any more gameplay comments?

To Do:
1) Fix army circles so blue numbers are legible.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Woo, version 9! Finally!

Version 9 (Large)

Click image to enlarge.

What you need to know
Number of territories: 42
Number of continents: 6
Gameplay Info: Classic gameplay

Updates in This Version:
1) Changed the legend box border and mountains based on poll results
2) Renamed Iori and Rol Archipelagos to Rol and Iori Islands
3) Changed bonuses: Isris to +4, Caen to +2, and Vienlorre to +8

Points of Discussion:
1) Any more gameplay comments?

To Do:
1) Fix army circles so blue numbers are legible.

It looks good, but I thought that the Isris was going to be +5 because it is surrounded by four continents and would be nigh impossible to capture. After all, the Biceror has four borders and only five territories but it gets +5. Shouldn't Isris at least get +5 also because it has more territories than Biceror?

Also, the new mountains look better than I thought they would. I actually like them better than the originals (the ones I voted for).

[pamoa]

At that point their still a contradiction in the names of islands and isles.
To be more clear you should name Isris and Caen Islands as Isris and Caen Isles.
So you get 3 clear different level some islands into a group of isles into the archipelago.

[ZeakCytho]

It looks good, but I thought that the Isris was going to be +5 because it is surrounded by four continents and would be nigh impossible to capture. After all, the Biceror has four borders and only five territories but it gets +5. Shouldn't Isris at least get +5 also because it has more territories than Biceror?

My reasoning was that Biceror is dead center in the map and is bordered by almost every continent. No matter where you are on the map, you can probably attack Biceror. So whomever goes for that continent will be defending against everyone else. On the other hand, Isris and Bishan are in the north and west, respectively, and thus have fewer players to worry about. However, you make a very valid point. But I feel if we make Isris +5, Bishan needs to be +5 as well, because it is identical in structure. And if those two are both +5, why would anyone go for Biceror? So Biceror would have to be +6...you see the problem?

I'd appreciate input from other people on this, because I myself am quite torn on what to do.

Also, the new mountains look better than I thought they would. I actually like them better than the originals (the ones I voted for).

Glad you like them. I don't like them . But many others did, so they're there.

At that point their still a contradiction in the names of islands and isles.
To be more clear you should name Isris and Caen Islands as Isris and Caen Isles.
So you get 3 clear different level some islands into a group of isles into the archipelago.

I don't see the problem here. It's possible to have groups of islands within groups of islands. For example, the US Virgin Islands are part of the Leeward Islands of the Lesser Antilles, which are part of the Caribbean Islands. That's three levels of groupings all using the word "Islands."

[oaktown]

Alright, ignore my PM Zeak, I decided to give this a few minutes.

I think that the +4 for Isris is fine. +5 could also work, as both could be justified compared to the other bonuses on the map, but I like to err low.

Names of Isles and Islands are cool - I see the point about being consistent, but how many players are even going to pay attention to what's an Isle and what is an Island? If you want to mix it up and have some fun with you could use "Atoll" or "Cay," or even "Keys." "Atoll" is a very cool word.

The only thing I would do is move the "Inton" title over to the left - I know, it will be half on the territory and half off, but right now it has great potential for mis-placements and mis-attacks.

Other than that...

[Mr. Squirrel]

Names of Isles and Islands are cool - I see the point about being consistent, but how many players are even going to pay attention to what's an Isle and what is an Island? If you want to mix it up and have some fun with you could use "Atoll" or "Cay," or even "Keys." "Atoll" is a very cool word.

I can't believe I never thought of this. Instead of having Rol Islands and Iori Islands, make them cays or atolls. This will get rid of the whole naming issue altogether (which was never a big deal in the first place, but nonetheless...) Thanks for pointing that out Oaktown.

Also, Zeak, congrats on the stamp.

[Mjinga]

Yay! *dances*

I GOT A STAMP ON MY MAP!

*celebratory drinks all round*

I like cays, I'll change it to cays or keys. Atoll is the cooler-sounding word, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with reefs or lagoons or something.

Oh, and I thought +4 was better, because Isris can be attacked by three continents that people might actually go after. The fourth continent (Vienlorre) is probably going to be ignored, certainly at least until late game when Isris would have had a chance to fort. Bishan also can be attacked by three continents that people would actually aim for, but Biceror can be attacked by four, and two easily-held at that. So I think Isris +4, Bishan +4, and Biceror +5 is best.

[fireedud]

Yes atolls are reefs.

They form when a new island forms. A barrier reef surronds it. Then the island erodes away, levaing behind a reef in the middle of nowhere, now called an atoll.

[ZeakCytho]

I think that the +4 for Isris is fine. +5 could also work, as both could be justified compared to the other bonuses on the map, but I like to err low.

We'll stick with +4 for now, then, unless someone really objects.

Names of Isles and Islands are cool - I see the point about being consistent, but how many players are even going to pay attention to what's an Isle and what is an Island? If you want to mix it up and have some fun with you could use "Atoll" or "Cay," or even "Keys." "Atoll" is a very cool word.

Adding verbal diversity sounds great. We may as well thesaurus other location words being used (coast, beach, etc.) so there isn't so much repetition. Expect more diversity of names in version 10.

The only thing I would do is move the "Inton" title over to the left - I know, it will be half on the territory and half off, but right now it has great potential for mis-placements and mis-attacks.

If we redraw the shape of the north coast of Kalwar, we might be able to fit the text "Inton" completely on the ocean in the location where you specified.

Other than that...

Also, Zeak, congrats on the stamp.

Thanks!

Okay, guys, let's talk graphics now. Personally, I'm not very happy with the mountains. I have a few ideas in mind for better ones, so I'll talk with Mjinga and we'll get some more of those small samples up for discussion. Are there other major areas of concern graphically?

[jiminski]

Thanks!

Okay, guys, let's talk graphics now. Personally, I'm not very happy with the mountains. I have a few ideas in mind for better ones, so I'll talk with Mjinga and we'll get some more of those small samples up for discussion. Are there other major areas of concern graphically?

I could not agree more! (although they are slightly better than i expected.)
the Mountains look like someone superimposed an aerial photograph of Everest onto a cartoon drawing and then dyed it a lurid colour as a disguise. (a moustache would have been better..)

Yeas i really feel that the Legend box .. although very nice, needs attention... it just seems too cluttered somehow.
As i said before the simple green one was very organic. Failing that perhaps a miniaturised version of the main map may be less distracting from the general flow?

It does not have to be an absolute replica or total slave to the continent detail but you could give the 'impression' of of it being a copy; the proportions and movement, and rhythm replicated.

As i have said many times the illusion of movement and 'wheeling' you have managed to cultivate is wonderful, so you need to somehow incorporate that rather than break it with the legend box.

edit: On more than a gestalt look, i can see that you have done so but they need to be more elegant in shape.. more like feathers or sails on a Chinese Junk-ship ... Also It is the title: Legend Island that breaks the Flow... Do you need it?

[Mjinga]

No, I don't think we do. I shall delete it at once.

I'm good to have another go at making the mini islands reflect the big map more, but having a miniaturised version of the map there looks, in a word, horrid. Not doing that, sorry.

[jiminski]

No, I don't think we do. I shall delete it at once.

I'm good to have another go at making the mini islands reflect the big map more, but having a miniaturised version of the map there looks, in a word, horrid. Not doing that, sorry.

heheh As i say above, I do not advise that you slavishly miniaturise it! just to give the impression of it (as you have already)

it just needs to be slightly more lithe.. if you could slim them down a little and make them a touch more elegant, i think you would have it... it's why i use the adjective 'feathery'