Hurling: Fastest Field Sport - VACATION

[rocky mountain]

seamusk, i think you should actually listen to the mods on this map (yes shocking i know) especially oaktown. if he doesn't like it, it will never get stamped and you'll never get it quenched. work on the alleghany forest one harder. it fer better than this one. for some reason, sports maps never work in this site. if you don't listen to me, then good luck trying for something that probably won't work... (i'm not really saying i don't like it, it just won't work...)
sorry...

EDIT: do the poll like t-o-m suggested.

[oaktown]

seamusk, i think you should actually listen to the mods on this map (yes shocking i know) especially oaktown. if he doesn't like it, it will never get stamped and you'll never get it quenched.

Not true... i won't deny a map my stamp just because I don't like it. I've stamped plenty of maps I don't much care for and have never played. While I will never be entirely free of subjectivity in my posts, when it comes to commenting on gameplay I try to follow the guidelines I've set forth in the handbook: balanced play, sensible bonuses, flexibility, player-friendliness, etc.

What will keep you from getting stamped is dismissing my concerns (and the concerns of others) entirely, unless the Foundry solidly thinks I'm wrong in which case I will bow to the masses.

[seamusk]

seamusk, i think you should actually listen to the mods on this map (yes shocking i know) especially oaktown. if he doesn't like it, it will never get stamped and you'll never get it quenched. work on the alleghany forest one harder. it fer better than this one. for some reason, sports maps never work in this site. if you don't listen to me, then good luck trying for something that probably won't work... (i'm not really saying i don't like it, it just won't work...)
sorry...

EDIT: do the poll like t-o-m suggested.

Thanks Rocky. I've sort of said this before, but even if there is lack of interest in this one, which I don't believe there is, all of my maps benefit from me maintaining interest in it. It is a work style of mine. I can do a poll. Cooler heads should be setting in soon if not already.

[Androidz]

this map got an Uniqe gameplay and i think it will be a great game to play if we try it. Some people is judgeing to much:)

[seamusk]

Map Update. Here are the changes:

Moved the position labels off ot the field or at least away from the attack paths.
Added a frame to the map.
I liked the idea of photos or something but agree that the photos would be stark contrast with rest of map. So I tried creating silhouettes instead. The one is especially pixely but I'd like input on them before cleaning them up.
Lastly I put in triple 888s to see if they are an issue. I did shift the field a touch to address one issue that i documented.

EDITED to add that I also changed the fonts. I know the position label font is hard to read. If I take the black line off the blue it looks fine, but the orange is hard to read.

AND EDITED again to add that I think I have the text resolved with some bevel and shadow instead of the stroke.

Version 2.2 - posted 6/16/08

Click image to enlarge.

[Androidz]

The middle area where the ball Should be located. Should maybe be a terriorie. All players can attack that terriorie and move menn there.

BUT when you have it and deploy menn in the middle terrie, it can only Bombard the areas around it not conquer.

It wont ruin the gameplay, it will only become a bit more agresive. (isint that what hurling is supposed to be) And The middle Section would be boosted:)

[seamusk]

Map Update. Changes in this version:

clip art of dudes hurling (permission pending)
Added a silhouette
Changed text to make clearer
Changed background
Replaced move examples in legend
Removed bottom bar and placed text on top left
re-drew attack lines
Changed text color in title

EDITED to add that I also added a territory in the center of the field that is the ball. However I did forget to add the army circle. You can bombard half-back, mid-fielders, and half-forwards from the sliotar (ball). However, you cannot attack anything.

Version 2.3 - posted 6/16/08

Click image to enlarge.

TO DO LIST
Replace top left silhouette
Possible replacement of goals
Add attack lines from goalies and to goal scoring territories (maybe)
Add army circle to sliotar and maybe some bevel

[seamusk]

Another map update. I realized right after publishing the last one that I wanted to make some more changes. Replaced top left silhouette. Colored jerseys for two of the hurling dudes. Changing some other mostly minor stuff.

This time a request. Most folks don't know that in addition to being the world's fastest field sport, hurling is actually the world's oldest field sport. Hurling was started in Ireland by the Celts who used it to train warriors. I'm interested in maybe bringing this out on the map somehow with graphics. I did add a quote that I've always liked.

Version 2.4 - posted 6/19/08

Click image to enlarge.

[seamusk]

Forget the above request. After PMing back and forth with androidz and others I agree that it looks good the way it is and adding the historical context will require an unneeded workover. Thanks for the input all.

[rocky mountain]

its looking SO much better than when i saw it last. i like the players in the field
the straight attack lines should be curved like the other ones because then they don't look just other lines that are part of the field. that's just my opinion though.
i don't think you need the part at the top where it has the weird looking pics (what are they?) the gold v. blue thing. you don't need it and it looks weird...
so is the benefit of having the center field like, to attack the other team instead of bombarding? with the ball in the center you can attack from a gold midfielder to the ball, then a blue mid fielder... it would definitely help.
so what is the naming of the positions of the same team? i know its left/right/center, but how do you determine which one is which?
the attack lines definitely clear things up.
i like the shadow players
good job so far

is this gonna get adv. idea soon? it looks fine to me...

[seamusk]

too tired to work on maps so let's see...

its looking SO much better than when i saw it last. i like the players in the field
i like the shadow players

good. that seems to be the verdict. players are good.

the straight attack lines should be curved like the other ones because then they don't look just other lines that are part of the field. that's just my opinion though.

I lean towards this opinion as well, except that I found the straight lines to be neater when editing. They create less noise I guess. Maybe opinions from folks on whether or not the straight lines are confusing would help.

i don't think you need the part at the top where it has the weird looking pics (what are they?) the gold v. blue thing. you don't need it and it looks weird...

gone. I almost removed it before but noone had commented on it so I wasn't sure if i should.

so is the benefit of having the center field like, to attack the other team instead of bombarding? with the ball in the center you can attack from a gold midfielder to the ball, then a blue mid fielder... it would definitely help.

Well, this is a new feature. The suggestion was that folks are able to bombard multiple positions from one location (only the goalie can do that before). But I do find the idea of switching teams so to speak via the sliotar interesting. The gameplay right now is good according to those i've heard from in test games. So I need to be careful to tweak it and not reinvent what is working, but I think this could work. Maybe the sliotar can attack mid-fielders of any color. Simple to describe. Creates an entirely new set of gameplay elements without compromising existing gameplay. potentially.

so what is the naming of the positions of the same team? i know its left/right/center, but how do you determine which one is which?

It is from the goalie's perspective. So for orange the fullback to the goalie's left is the left fullback. But the guy covering him for blue is the right full forward. Hope that explains it.

EDITED TO NOTE THAT the sliotar = the ball. I wrote sliotar totally by habit.

[rocky mountain]

It is from the goalie's perspective. So for orange the fullback to the goalie's left is the left fullback. But the guy covering him for blue is the right full forward. Hope that explains it.

which goalie's perspective? does it stop at midfield and then switch to the perspective of the other goalies? or are the blue players named by the blue goalies, and the gold players by the gold goalies? if its like the last one, then gold right fullback is right beside the blue left full forward... i think it will complicate things a bit...

[seamusk]

It is from the goalie's perspective. So for orange the fullback to the goalie's left is the left fullback. But the guy covering him for blue is the right full forward. Hope that explains it.

which goalie's perspective? does it stop at midfield and then switch to the perspective of the other goalies? or are the blue players named by the blue goalies, and the gold players by the gold goalies? if its like the last one, then gold right fullback is right beside the blue left full forward... i think it will complicate things a bit...

yes, that is exactly right (the last one). All orange players go by orange goalie perspective and all blue players go by blue goalie perspective. Is there some way that I should clarify this on the map?

[seamusk]

OK, I've given this a lot of thought and taken into consideration the input Ive gotten and I lik Rocky's idea of having the sliotar/ball attack any mid-fielder. It therefore can be a vehicle to switch teams. This actually resolves the only major outstanding gameplay issue I had (that I know of). Here is an updated map though the only real change was to update the legend for the new gameplay.


Version 2.5 - posted 6/25/08

Click image to enlarge.

[Snowgun]

I think that having the middle ball be a portal to switch teams is key! almost like a relief valve in case some weird situation happens. Looking at the board I think this game looks really cool. I like the rather simplistic style, tactically and aestically. I think this map is ready for publication!

[seamusk]

Just updating that because I need to move into other things I'll be looking to close the poll on Monday. So far the sampling seems to be fairly good and is consistent with the earlier poll as well.

Other than that, it is more game play while I sit and wait...

[mibi]

This is the most confusing map on CC. Add to the confusing gameplay you already have the confusion of people not knowing wtf is hurling.

I'd be curious if there is any interest in this map from people who are not familiar with hurling, because the learning curve on this one is as steep as it gets.

[seamusk]

This is the most confusing map on CC. Add to the confusing gameplay you already have the confusion of people not knowing wtf is hurling.

I'd be curious if there is any interest in this map from people who are not familiar with hurling, because the learning curve on this one is as steep as it gets.

You are not a sports fan eh? It is a field sport and positioning and ball movement in a 2D world isn't that different than most any other field sport. Hurling does have advantages from a cc standpoint with the scoring and team numbers. Plus it is the oldest and fastest field sport in the world. It would probably be better known except for the complicated politics of Ireland (at least 3rd century AD). In any case, I was concerned about familiarity from the start but the test players and many of the supporters who don't know hurling haven't had the kinds of difficulty you suggest. At this point I cannot agree with your assessment based on actual experience. And yes the game play is very different and unique but isn't overly complex. Attack your own players to move the ball. Bombard the man you cover on the other team. Attack the goal scoring territories to score. The bonuses are very simple. The graphics are intentionally simple.

[ZeakCytho]

This is the most confusing map on CC. Add to the confusing gameplay you already have the confusion of people not knowing wtf is hurling.

I'd be curious if there is any interest in this map from people who are not familiar with hurling, because the learning curve on this one is as steep as it gets.

I agree completely with Mibi on this one (though I mistakenly thought he was WM at first ).

[Androidz]

I think it will be easyer with lines to the Goalies and Goals for new players.

[rocky mountain]

This is the most confusing map on CC. Add to the confusing gameplay you already have the confusion of people not knowing wtf is hurling.

I'd be curious if there is any interest in this map from people who are not familiar with hurling, because the learning curve on this one is as steep as it gets.

i do not agree with it being the most complex map on CC. waterloo, AoR Mayhem, pearl harbour, WWII ardennes are complicated ones in my eyes. they just take getting used to, thats all. this one is no different.
i am not familiar with hurling at all, and yet i get the gameplay. at first i didn't, but then the attack lines came and gameplay is much clearer. i think its kindof a simple map (ok maybe simple was not the right word, but for me, the "learning curve on this one" is not as steep as it gets)

(though I mistakenly thought he was WM at first )

.
me too

[seamusk]

I think it will be easyer with lines to the Goalies and Goals for new players.

Ok the attack lines from the goalies are easy. But the goals I'm concerned about. The full forwards can attack the goals themselves but I cannot draw this without drawing through the goalies. So I am wondering if there is a means, such as that in qwerts western front map to symbolize the attack point vectors. (I'm talking about the missile launches v britain)

One quick idea is to put mini sliotars (balls) that are red and yellow next to the players who can attack each respectively. So a player who can attack the left goal would have a mini red sliotar attached to his circle. Sounds busy so I'm not sure...

[Androidz]

What about adding A crown on the Xml Circle who can attack Goals or something from the real game. Then post in the Legend.: Only armies with crown can attack the 3 Goal Area..(Eksample)

[seamusk]

What about adding A crown on the Xml Circle who can attack Goals or something from the real game. Then post in the Legend.: Only armies with crown can attack the 3 Goal Area..(Eksample)

yeah. maybe those with hurleys (the sticks). I'll play around and figure out what looks best without cluttering the map.

[mibi]

I guess my issue is, you take a sport that is the "fastest field sport in the world" and apply the rules of Risk which is one of the longest and slowest board games out there. In the end you have something that is neither hurling, nor is it Risk, and will ultimately end in confusion. Is this a 1v1 map only? Because if its not, then people will be attempting to play hurling via Risk, with 4-8 teams on the same pitch. Either way, if this map does get into live play, it will be the ultimate tool for n00b farming. Small map, check, complicated game play, check. I took a look at the movement and such for a 5 minutes and still couldn't grasp it. You have lines of attack with no attack lines, attacking is "moving the ball" but the ball never moves. You have auto-bonuses, bombards, territories that cannot be attacked, victory conditions, and a host of other complexities. Judging from this map, the sport of hurling must be the most complicated in the world!

Or maybe it just doesn't belong on a board game.