Hurling: Fastest Field Sport - VACATION

[Ditocoaf]

I say keep going with this map. It's complicated, but it looks like it could be really fun. Just ignore DiM; he has a habit of being an asshole to unaccomplished mapmakers. He'll keep trying to kill this map, but the less weight you give his opinions, the less weight others will.

i have the habit of being an arrogant bastard as mibi kindly posted
i admit to that BUT it's not against new map makers it's against all map makers. i have always voiced my opinion regardless who made the map. i've had clinches with CAs, with andy with mibi, widowmakers and basically anybody regardless of reputation statute or whatever. if i feel something is wrong then i will say it without any sugarcoating.

Sure, a nasty comment from DiM has the power to end a thread, quite frequently. But the fact that this thread is still going, shows that it's good enough, and you have enough resolve, to get this through to quenching anyway. I wish you good luck.

a nasty comment from me has the power to end a thread only if the map maker is not worthy of quenching a map. if he is then a nasty comment from me has the amazing power of making a map even better.

yes i have a brutal way of pointing out the flaws of a map and yes the more resistance i encounter the more brutal my posts become. if seamusk wants to be a great map maker he needs to get over these comments take them for what they are (constructive criticism) and improve the map. ignoring me will not get him anywhere because the flaws are still on the map and i will keep pointing them over and over again

Everyone appreciates constructive criticism that points out specific areas to improve or fix. But a lot of your comments serve more to attack the very existence of the map even the mapmaker's career, aimed to kill rather than improve it. That is the sort of thing that the foundry does not need, even from you.

[DiM]

I say keep going with this map. It's complicated, but it looks like it could be really fun. Just ignore DiM; he has a habit of being an asshole to unaccomplished mapmakers. He'll keep trying to kill this map, but the less weight you give his opinions, the less weight others will.

i have the habit of being an arrogant bastard as mibi kindly posted
i admit to that BUT it's not against new map makers it's against all map makers. i have always voiced my opinion regardless who made the map. i've had clinches with CAs, with andy with mibi, widowmakers and basically anybody regardless of reputation statute or whatever. if i feel something is wrong then i will say it without any sugarcoating.

Sure, a nasty comment from DiM has the power to end a thread, quite frequently. But the fact that this thread is still going, shows that it's good enough, and you have enough resolve, to get this through to quenching anyway. I wish you good luck.

a nasty comment from me has the power to end a thread only if the map maker is not worthy of quenching a map. if he is then a nasty comment from me has the amazing power of making a map even better.

yes i have a brutal way of pointing out the flaws of a map and yes the more resistance i encounter the more brutal my posts become. if seamusk wants to be a great map maker he needs to get over these comments take them for what they are (constructive criticism) and improve the map. ignoring me will not get him anywhere because the flaws are still on the map and i will keep pointing them over and over again

Everyone appreciates constructive criticism that points out specific areas to improve or fix. But a lot of your comments serve more to attack the very existence of the map even the mapmaker's career, aimed to kill rather than improve it. That is the sort of thing that the foundry does not need, even from you.

for crying out loud i explained 2 or 3 times what is wrong with the gameplay, i then proceded to make 3 images and an even more detailed explanation about the flaw i found. what did seamus do? he said i'm wrong and he's right. no justification no proof no nothing.

same for mibi, he pointed a valid problem in the gameplay. seamus told him he's wrong again with no proof. mibi came back and pointed again. seamus ignored the post.

i'm not trying to kill anything i'm trying to point out the gameplay is flawed but seamus is not willing to listen. if i were the only one saying this i'd say perhaps i'm insane but i pointed a problem mibi pointed a problem, tacktix agreed then oaktown came and said complaints about gameplay need to be solved. that's 4 people talkin about the same flawed gameplay and what does seamusk does? he ignore all of us.

well we're not in fairy land not everything is perfect if seamus thinks that all comments will be "ZOMG this is uber great" then he is wrong. when a valid issue is raised you either fix it or lose hope of ever getting a map to move forward

[gimil]

STOP! everyone stop...

Sea, the point has be brought up, its not unreasonalbe, maybe the way the point has been brought up is unreasonable but the argument still stands. If people say the gamepaly is broke then it needs to be fixed.

Bottom line. Do with it what you will. DiM have a cigar and chill.

[Androidz]

Were constantly trying to make the gameplay better you'll see a update in a few days. Now some of you have said the gameplay is broke without explaining why and in deffence said we give you an proper answear why it isint broke well read the posts again it works perfectly we have stated, Seamusk posted an ideal showing how it works. But since we didint got any critics how to improve the gameplay without your help we have some new ideas how to improve it. =)

So update in a few days. Next time you criticse something pliss tell us how to fix it without saying: Its bad scrap it, we cant use this type of critics. We will happly listen and improve everything requested. But we can come up all by ourself.

[ZeakCytho]

Were constantly trying to make the gameplay better you'll see a update in a few days. Now some of you have said the gameplay is broke without explaining why and in deffence said we give you an proper answear why it isint broke well read the posts again it works perfectly we have stated, Seamusk posted an ideal showing how it works. But since we didint got any critics how to improve the gameplay we still got great ideas to improve it. =) So update in a few days.

I bolded the bit that shows you haven't been reading anything DiM wrote

[Androidz]

Dim who is he?xD

I been reading every treads here, and as i said we have solutions to everything which is seen as problems. it will take some time to add it so stay in touch:)

PS: you quoted before i edited:.

[DiM]

Dim who is he?xD

I been reading every treads here, and as i said we have solutions to everything which is seen as problems. it will take some time to add it so stay in touch:)

PS: you quoted before i edited:.

ooo who is DiM? mature, very mature of you. that's the way to make maps ignore what you don't like hoping it will go away.

i've pointed a problem a few times with proper explanations of the problem. i'm still waiting to see how you're planning to solve it.

[rocky mountain]

without explaining why

I bolded the bit that shows you haven't been reading anything DiM wrote

i don't think he was just talking about DiM...

glad there will be an update soon... maybe, maybe, something will get resolved... hopefully...

DiM have a cigar and chill.

[Androidz]

Hmm for any1 which wonders, i was told to ignore a certain player.

And i wish some1 could point out the few things which mysteriously have been pointed out. lol i want to see if some1 can highlight it. If it was something about it i want to see it..which i doubt. In the testgame i treid everything worked fine, it was no problem and i doubt it suddenly one now. But a gameplay can always be improved which i pretty much agrea with every1 else about.

[rocky mountain]

back to this map. in a 1v1 each player has 3 goalies, right?
player 1 will have direct attack routes to an average of 4 fullbacks. he takes them with ease since all of them have 1 neutral and then he will place an average of 4-5 armies on top of each of those 4 fullbacks. that gives him a +4 extra troops.
player 2 now needs to take the other 2 neutral fullbacks as well as break some bonuses from player 1. since player 1 has 4-5 troops it's obvious player 2 will not be able to break all the bonuses, so now player 1 starts with at least a +2, advantage that he will keep and also increase round after round because player 2 is always fighting an uphill battle.

page 10...

[DiM]

Hmm for any1 which wonders, i was told to ignore a certain player.

And i wish some1 could point out the few things which mysteriously have been pointed out. lol i want to see if some1 can highlight it. If it was something about it i want to see it..which i doubt. In the testgame i treid everything worked fine, it was no problem and i doubt it suddenly one now. But a gameplay can always be improved which i pretty much agrea with every1 else about.

and of course like the puppet that you are you obeyed immediately, right?
do you also fetch, play dead, lick boots?

you're the perfect mindless slave aren't you?

by the way here's a NEWS FLASH. ignoring people's suggestions will not get your map moved forward because according to the rules all valid request and feedbacks must be implemented or refuted with a valid point.

the fact that you played a test game does not represent a valid point.


i just realised an interesting procedure.
ignoring those that don't like the map.

cool. then i guess i can make the shittiest map ever and put everybody on ignore. if i can't see the comments that tell me the map is crap then it means they don't exist and the map is in fact great.

[wcaclimbing]

Hmm for any1 which wonders, i was told to ignore a certain player.

And i wish some1 could point out the few things which mysteriously have been pointed out. lol i want to see if some1 can highlight it. If it was something about it i want to see it..which i doubt. In the testgame i treid everything worked fine, it was no problem and i doubt it suddenly one now. But a gameplay can always be improved which i pretty much agrea with every1 else about.

Everyone else can see the gameplay problems, and it has been said many times in this thread. Not only by DiM, either. I don't care if one test game went fine. Play a test game against DiM, and you might see the problems.

1. gameplay is very complicated: how could you expect a noob to come in and be able to compete on this? It basically looks like noob farming to me. A complex map that new members just won't understand, so all the experienced guys can win every time.

2. gameplay is unbalanced: DiM explained it well in one of his posts. I don't care if you are ignoring him, go back and read it.

3. gameplay is confusing: so many rules in the box, so many lines on the field, its very confusing to figure out where to go and what to do.

[Androidz]

as a bird went by and told me im some1 slave. Thats so true i live on to serve others, the birdie cant make me angry.

Wcaclimbing, what is the gameplay problem tell me i cant see any:O i been asking for an answear to this in 5 posts now.

2. THe some1 you are mentioning has written anything about this, just that we should scrap it and its a bad gameplay not why i i been reading all the pages...

3. Confusing?? well i guess we can work on the legend and the attack lines a bit to make it a bit more clearer. You'll see most of this and more in the next update ofc.

--------------------------

looking forward for a response to 1 and 2.

[wcaclimbing]

Androidz, rocky mountain quoted it already. posted it at the bottom of page 14. Now grow up and pay attention to what every person in this thread has been saying. Whoever goes first has a huge advantage. If you play against noobs, you have a huge advantage. if you are lucky, it also gives you a huge advantage.

back to this map. in a 1v1 each player has 3 goalies, right?
player 1 will have direct attack routes to an average of 4 fullbacks. he takes them with ease since all of them have 1 neutral and then he will place an average of 4-5 armies on top of each of those 4 fullbacks. that gives him a +4 extra troops.
player 2 now needs to take the other 2 neutral fullbacks as well as break some bonuses from player 1. since player 1 has 4-5 troops it's obvious player 2 will not be able to break all the bonuses, so now player 1 starts with at least a +2, advantage that he will keep and also increase round after round because player 2 is always fighting an uphill battle.

page 10...

[Androidz]

I actully has no idea was he is talking about he talking about bonuses which dont exist:S It sounds like me that he thinks if you conquer 1 terriore you get +4 lol...

I callenge the dude the wom i promised not to talk with. to a test game. Prove me your point pliss.

[DiM]

Androidz, rocky mountain quoted it already. posted it at the bottom of page 14. Now grow up and pay attention to what every person in this thread has been saying. Whoever goes first has a huge advantage. If you play against noobs, you have a huge advantage. if you are lucky, it also gives you a huge advantage.

back to this map. in a 1v1 each player has 3 goalies, right?
player 1 will have direct attack routes to an average of 4 fullbacks. he takes them with ease since all of them have 1 neutral and then he will place an average of 4-5 armies on top of each of those 4 fullbacks. that gives him a +4 extra troops.
player 2 now needs to take the other 2 neutral fullbacks as well as break some bonuses from player 1. since player 1 has 4-5 troops it's obvious player 2 will not be able to break all the bonuses, so now player 1 starts with at least a +2, advantage that he will keep and also increase round after round because player 2 is always fighting an uphill battle.

page 10...

bad move wca. you're probably going on his ignore list now.

btw could somebody quote this so android can see it?

android, if you think ignoring advice that you do not want to see is the solution then you are wrong. very wrong. all valid requests must be handled by the map maker either by solving them or by validly refusing them. so far there hasn't been any solving or valid refusing.

[DiM]

I callenge the dude the wom i promised not to talk with. to a test game. Prove me your point pliss.

androids i have already challenged seamus to a test game. but he did not want to play it. if you want to play it then please read below:

here we go.
1v1 sequential unlimited fortifications.
i'm red you are blue
the map looks like this:
notice i have made a perfectly even distribution of starting locations. things could have been much worse for player 2 but i'm keeping it balanced


i go first and get 3 armies deployed to each goalie plus another 3 armies (for number of terits owned) to deploy wherever i want

so i deploy like this:


i conquer 6 fullbacks and end turn in this position. notice i have lost 3 troops while killing 6. a perfectly normal outcome considering i always attacked 3v1.



i now have 6 fullbacks meaning a +6 bonus. now it's your turn and i am pretty sure you have a huge mountain to climb. not only that all your attack choices have 2 or more armies on them so pretty big chance of losing but you also have to break all 6 fullbacks to prevent me from taking a bonus.

please take your turn and post here. also please don't give yourself fantastic dice.
you lose half of what you kill when attacking 3 dice vs 1 and you lose 75% of what you kill when attacking 3 dice vs 2.

example. you have 10v4 you lose 3 to kill 4.


edit// unless you get absolutely perfect dice you will not be able to break all my bonuses so i have an advantage because next round i'll start with at least 3-4 fullbacks and further reinforce my positions.

also it's woth mentioning that 2-3 bad rolls for you will mean you won't be able to break anything thus allowing me to keep my whole bounus. and 2-3 bad rolls are very possible. i have lost 6v2 battles a lot of times and looking at the map i see you have some nice 6v2 battles to take.

one more problem is if by chance (it can happen) each plaer starts with 3 goalies on each side. then it will simply be a battle of who has the better dice when fighting neutrals. pretty crappy, no?

[rocky mountain]

I actully has no idea was he is talking about he talking about bonuses which dont exist:S It sounds like me that he thinks if you conquer 1 terriore you get +4 lol...

I callenge the dude the wom i promised not to talk with. to a test game. Prove me your point pliss.

the bonuses do exist, only they are auto-deploy!!! the +1 for every player!!! he is not saying that the bonus is +4. he is saying you most likely be able to conquer the 1 neutral terits, and still keep 4 or 5 armies on the conquered terit. then the next player won't be able to do as much. he isn't saying it in terms that is hard to understand. you're probably just trying to ignore it.

by the way, not saying is name is just kinda childish. ignoring his good gameplay advice, no matter how he says it isn't very smart, considering he does know what he's talking about. other people agree with him.

[Androidz]

So i just post my move and you move for me??

wow im think im actully starting to see what your saying i didint even know we started with 3 Goalies:O this must be fixed. I jumped into a test game already started:P But let me try set 3 armies on Fullbacks. attack the area above your 6 menn which you has 2 armies. and attack from Red Startgoalie and attack fullbacks. then end turn.

Hmm ps if he had explained it more i would have understand my english is crappy already. I wasent ignoreing, in the testgame i jumped into all worked perfect:O

Now if you call my childish or not i dont care a promise is a promise for me, and he was the one acting childish in the start or shold i quote him?

PS: This problem would have been fixed in the next update anyway without the bad explained "advice" i rally dont understand english that well.

[wcaclimbing]

PS: This problem would have been fixed in the next update anyway without non advice we fixed it:/

you guys have been talking about "big graphics and gameplay ideas and changes" for a while now.
Would you mind sharing some of what you had in mind? It'd help the rest of us out a bit. Cause if there's a big change coming up there's no reason to complain about the current system.

[Androidz]

PS: This problem would have been fixed in the next update anyway without non advice we fixed it:/

you guys have been talking about "big graphics and gameplay ideas and changes" for a while now.
Would you mind sharing some of what you had in mind? It'd help the rest of us out a bit. Cause if there's a big change coming up there's no reason to complain about the current system.

Theres alot of them:O i f i got time i probbably post a short based written text later today.


Yeah i know were being saying that alot but i get the feeling some1 isint listing..there is no need to comment on the current gameplay atm. If you wait until the next update with critics we cant really use it would be great. Theres alot of changes as i said and most thing will be the diffrent not the Official gameplay ofc but fixed so it works.

[rocky mountain]

where's seamusk these days? he hasn't posted here or alleghany forest for a while...

[Androidz]

where's seamusk these days? he hasn't posted here or alleghany forest for a while...

He had something to do in RL.

Oh while im at it. Im trully sorry for all missunderstandings my english might have been caused.

[rocky mountain]

androidz, did you see DiM's game post above?

[seamusk]

where's seamusk these days? he hasn't posted here or alleghany forest for a while...

I posted here this morning. I've already addressed DiM's particular concerns twice. Others have raised legitimate gameplay issues which I am addressing. But the moderators need to get this thread under control. I think its pretty clear that DiM thinks he can do whatever he want regardless of whether he is right or not and no one gives a shit. No one can develop a map under those circumstances. I've played out that situation dozens of times and it never holds no matter how bad the dice is the way DiM wants it to. So I guess I'm wondering how we got back onto that. If test play pans out that way fine, but everyone makes mistakes in analyzing gameplay. Let the test games and actual gameplay analysis take their course... If DiM proves right, fine, but let it go because the objective documentation doesn't support him.