Ratings Reloaded - Community Consultation - UPDATED

[ilarry]

When I personally rate the examples, others may offer a grunt or two; however, when the Moderator sees them him/herself then positive steps can (might) be taken to police the community concerned with the new rating system(s).
The basic two reasons I offered the suggestion to initiate a 5th rating category of REVENGE (from 1 to 5 stars) is first: Everybody and their uncle can see unfairness associated with the differences in opinion all the various and sundry players have produced. Second, I can produce evidence where it appears to be fact that many ratings against me and my partners were solely in ignorance and/or revenge for their losses against us. Their rating(s) of us made no honest sense except that it must have been some kind of attempt to seek solace for themselves. I claim this because, in one example the rater's own partner differentiated him/herself with a very different rating. There are still ample examples. I'm more than willing to go public with them.
I sincerely believe that adding a REVENGE (Get even) 5th option would be a method which will reconcile most of the feedback the Moderators are suffering under.
It would be "relatively" easy to police the first 4 options. How? No one brings any objections to their ratings unless they have verifiable proof that they were treated unfairly in at least two of the first 4 rating options. There need be no rules in the 5th option. Anything goes.
The original 4 rating option rules still apply. There need be no rules for the 5th rating option ... If someone stinks [to you] rate 'em -0-stars.

[General Mayhem]

Wizards of aus never turned up to play any of the game, was kicked out after 3 turns, so contributed nothing to the experience, yet left me 2 stars for each of the categories.

This is yet another case proving how very ill thought out the whole process was..

i left honest ratings for someone who had an attitude and gang banged me using another player. Left him good attendance etc.
What do get. Retaliatorry 1's for all ratings! Stinks.

Guys, stop trying to blame everything on ratings. Both of these unfair situations would have happened with the old feedback system.

we know. but the comments in written feedback might of said 'good player but watch out, his propaganda methods are second only to the nazis and he will ally a noob against you before the game has even started!'. And thus I wouldnt of played him. Ratings cant tell me that

[JoshyBoy]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! JUST CHANGE IT BACK!!!!!

[Mylittlepuddykat]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but another way to improve the rating system would be to vary the colour of the star depending on the rating, this would make it much easier to see quickly if a payer has a high or low rating.

[eye84free]

the medals is a good additation... but the rateings system..i dontlike it..i liked the feed back beter..it would show more of a player the a rateing. it was either for/against or in between. and was monitored better. with the rateings anyone can put what rateing they want you. because u beat them they can give u a crap rating and its unfair to the player... and to add a place to make a comment when rating makes no sense. might as well put the feedback back up. ...i think the rateing system should be taken away or atleast make it an option in ur control panel to have or not have. so the player has the choice to have or get rateings or not.

[suggs]

We heard you the first time, suggs. Repeating yourself over and over is not helpful - it has become noise.

Written comments were a mess and led to much more dispute and unhappiness. Leaving written comments unmoderated would still leave us with too many angry members offended by comments.

Ratings currently has advantages and disadvantages over feedbacks. How can we get the best of both worlds? Try working *with* us to make CC better.

Oh, and not everyone wants to go back to the old system instead of fixing ratings (although those that do are much more vocal).

The reason I am repeating it is that you don't seem to be taking it on board.
Devote your, no doubt not inconsiderable techie abilities to devising a decent written feedback system.
All i hear from you is that "it was too much trouble" - i have suggested ways round it, as have others.
Once you admit that some sort of written feedback is being returned to, I will stop suggesting it, along with all of the other paying customers that own this site.

[wicked]

Well suggs, at least be realistic then. We have a new system and are attempting to make that work, even tweaking it here or there right now in an attempt to make it better. So you can either sit in the corner and pout about what once was, or hop on board and help us make the current ratings system what you want it to be. If all you want to do is complain about the same thing over and over, then yeah you will be tuned out (see "broken record").

I personally doubt we'll ever go back to a blank slate/write whatever you want form of feedback again, as that was a huge mess that people complained about more than they complain about the new current system. So instead, we'll have "canned" messages you can tag on a player to go with their rating and score, all of which should give you enough info on whether they're worth playing or not.

[jiminski]

Well suggs, at least be realistic then. We have a new system and are attempting to make that work, even tweaking it here or there right now in an attempt to make it better. So you can either sit in the corner and pout about what once was, or hop on board and help us make the current ratings system what you want it to be. If all you want to do is complain about the same thing over and over, then yeah you will be tuned out (see "broken record").

I personally doubt we'll ever go back to a blank slate/write whatever you want form of feedback again, as that was a huge mess that people complained about more than they complain about the new current system. So instead, we'll have "canned" messages you can tag on a player to go with their rating and score, all of which should give you enough info on whether they're worth playing or not.

yeah i see that Wicki and the site always tries to get it right! I truly do respect that!

I will never however use this rating system.. so pouting in the corner it is for me Lack may be frustrated at that but using it would cause me a perpetual irritation so i will boycott it. that is ok for me as feedback really not a big issue in the cold light of day... (you may not believe it in light of all my activity on it but i truly was just trying to do something worthwhile... heheh it was a lemon as it transpired)

But Feedback is not so important for me as i play mostly private games and I plan on playing these almost exclusively from now on, as there is now no realistic way for me to gain enough information quickly on potential opposition or team-mates... I know i know give it a chance .. no for my own small piece of peace of mind.. no!

[War Dog]

The attendance part of the ratings should be automated.
If you take your go in under 2 hours 5 stars
under 6 hours 4 stars
under 12 hours 3 stars
under 23 hours 2 stars
miss a go - 1 star.
.

this wouldnt benifit me becuz i usally take my turns around 15 hr left becuz they take their at night

[detlef]

Well suggs, at least be realistic then. We have a new system and are attempting to make that work, even tweaking it here or there right now in an attempt to make it better. So you can either sit in the corner and pout about what once was, or hop on board and help us make the current ratings system what you want it to be. If all you want to do is complain about the same thing over and over, then yeah you will be tuned out (see "broken record").

I personally doubt we'll ever go back to a blank slate/write whatever you want form of feedback again, as that was a huge mess that people complained about more than they complain about the new current system. So instead, we'll have "canned" messages you can tag on a player to go with their rating and score, all of which should give you enough info on whether they're worth playing or not.

So, essentially what you're saying wicked is, "Because the old system was too much of a pain for us, we scraped it and replaced it with one that it completely useless and arbitrary. Now, you can either help us fix it or pout."

The thing is, we're not merely saying go back to the old way, we're saying go back to the old way and pay as little attention to people bitching about their feedback as you seem to do now with the ratings. That's the thing, it's not that you guys have come up with a system that works so well it doesn't need moderation, it's just that you're not moderating it. So, great, don't moderate it. Let people reply to their negative feedback like they used to and leave it at that. The community at large is quite capable of figuring out if the feedback or the response to the feedback is BS.

[hulmey]

Well suggs, at least be realistic then. We have a new system and are attempting to make that work, even tweaking it here or there right now in an attempt to make it better. So you can either sit in the corner and pout about what once was, or hop on board and help us make the current ratings system what you want it to be. If all you want to do is complain about the same thing over and over, then yeah you will be tuned out (see "broken record").

I personally doubt we'll ever go back to a blank slate/write whatever you want form of feedback again, as that was a huge mess that people complained about more than they complain about the new current system. So instead, we'll have "canned" messages you can tag on a player to go with their rating and score, all of which should give you enough info on whether they're worth playing or not.

yeah i see that Wicki and the site always tries to get it right! I truly do respect that!

I will never however use this rating system.. so pouting in the corner it is for me Lack may be frustrated at that but using it would cause me a perpetual irritation so i will boycott it. that is ok for me as feedback really not a big issue in the cold light of day... (you may not believe it in light of all my activity on it but i truly was just trying to do something worthwhile... heheh it was a lemon as it transpired)

But Feedback is not so important for me as i play mostly private games and I plan on playing these almost exclusively from now on, as there is now no realistic way for me to gain enough information quickly on potential opposition or team-mates... I know i know give it a chance .. no for my own small piece of peace of mind.. no!

dammit i wanted a never medal so i rated...I feel like a dick noww

[hulmey]

Well suggs, at least be realistic then. We have a new system and are attempting to make that work, even tweaking it here or there right now in an attempt to make it better. So you can either sit in the corner and pout about what once was, or hop on board and help us make the current ratings system what you want it to be. If all you want to do is complain about the same thing over and over, then yeah you will be tuned out (see "broken record").

I personally doubt we'll ever go back to a blank slate/write whatever you want form of feedback again, as that was a huge mess that people complained about more than they complain about the new current system. So instead, we'll have "canned" messages you can tag on a player to go with their rating and score, all of which should give you enough info on whether they're worth playing or not.

can u make me smell better?

[wicked]

Sorry, but don't think that'll work. People took feedback WAY too seriously and got really offended if it wasn't deleted. Sure, you may have been OK with people trashing you on feedback whether it was true or not, but not everyone was. We said we weren't going to moderate ratings, and yet still get complaints about someone leaving 3's and requests for removal. We're trying to be responsive here, not say "suck it up cupcake, deal with whatever anyone said about you no matter how offensive you find it or how untrue it is". So yeah, we're sticking with ratings and trying to make that work. We could certainly use all the input we can get about how it should work.

[hulmey]

Sorry, but don't think that'll work. People took feedback WAY too seriously and got really offended if it wasn't deleted. Sure, you may have been OK with people trashing you on feedback whether it was true or not, but not everyone was. We said we weren't going to moderate ratings, and yet still get complaints about someone leaving 3's and requests for removal. We're trying to be responsive here, not say "suck it up cupcake, deal with whatever anyone said about you no matter how offensive you find it or how untrue it is". So yeah, we're sticking with ratings and trying to make that work. We could certainly use all the input we can get about how it should work.

suck it up lol.....if i said that to my customer's we would have all sorts of trouble. Ae you business? Yes or No? The customer is always right....

If communtiy feedback was implemented back it clear that it can never be changed once sanctioned by the community.....You got an eticket about changing feedback, then tell customer were to get off

ps...your not getting much communtiy response/help regards the star feedback coz most people dont want them

[wicked]

Actually we're getting a typical level of response, most quite constructive as they help us try to mold the current system into what they want. I'm just in the habit of always asking for more input on things like this. The more the merrier.

[azezzo]

We heard you the first time, suggs. Repeating yourself over and over is not helpful - it has become noise.

Written comments were a mess and led to much more dispute and unhappiness. Leaving written comments unmoderated would still leave us with too many angry members offended by comments.

Ratings currently has advantages and disadvantages over feedbacks. How can we get the best of both worlds? Try working *with* us to make CC better.

Oh, and not everyone wants to go back to the old system instead of fixing ratings (although those that do are much more vocal).

Lack. I mean no disrespect, and dont mean to beat a dead horse, but since this whole ratings debacle has ocurred i am a bit soured on C.C.
I appreciate your taking the time to answer us disgruntled customers.
But one argument you give for not wanting the old F.B. system is that there were angry members who were offended by comments.

Well then my question to you is then Why does C.C. have such a tolerant stance on Game Chat?
I dont understand how the one is different from the other.

C.C. stance is that its ok to swear, belittle, degrade an oponnent in the game chat but then its not allowed in the feedback? This seems hypocritical. I think that there is a flaw in the logic here.

What if we had a feedback system where profanity was not able to be used, not even f**k?
Not to say that i cant tear you apart with clean language, but it takes more effort and time which would reduce alot of the filth.

please respond to the game chat issue without telling us to use the ignore list.

[detlef]

Sorry, but don't think that'll work. People took feedback WAY too seriously and got really offended if it wasn't deleted. Sure, you may have been OK with people trashing you on feedback whether it was true or not, but not everyone was. We said we weren't going to moderate ratings, and yet still get complaints about someone leaving 3's and requests for removal. We're trying to be responsive here, not say "suck it up cupcake, deal with whatever anyone said about you no matter how offensive you find it or how untrue it is". So yeah, we're sticking with ratings and trying to make that work. We could certainly use all the input we can get about how it should work.

You're completely missing the point. So, before people would complain about somebody using foul language or saying they did bad things that they didn't. Now, you're going to have people not only complaining about people giving them undeserved low ratings, but also because they have a different opinion of what a 3 should mean. Doesn't sound like you're making any headway in that department. Basically, you're trading in the fact that you don't need to worry about foul language for the fact that there's no consensus on what these scores should be.

Which brings up another point, the only way you're ever going to get to a consensus on what the numbers mean, you're going to have to give up the 3 is default stance. Believe me, I both understand and agree with you that it should be but I'm also far too aware that puts me in a tiny minority. Not only here, but anywhere else such ratings systems are used. To deny this is just being needlessly stubborn. Check my e-bay story I posted in Solomon's crusade known as the Ratings thread. Jiminski laid it out perfectly right off the bat. Try as we might to train everyone otherwise, this is what they will always mean to the majority of people:
5-good
4-not so bad that I'm going to trash you but I don't like you
3-I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but think you're a douche
2-You're a douche
1-You're f'ing douche

That's what it means now, that's what it will mean 6 mos from now, and that's what it will mean 3 years from now. That's not being defeatist, that's just being realistic.

Now, back to your stance that you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. See, like Jiminski, I'm not part of the problem. I'm simply not using this useless system. And by not using it at all, I'm providing exactly as much useful info on my fellow CC players as those that are, because there's no way at all to glean a shred of insight into what kind of player we all are using this system.

So, forgive me if I'm not interested in helping you with "tweaks" to something that seems, by all accounts, completely doomed. Kind of like the way that I'm probably not the guy you want to ask about the best way to succeed in Iraq. It's a horrible idea that is about exactly as screwed up as I expected it to be the minute it started.

[suggs]

Wicked, I have made constructive suggestions. They haven't been listened too.
Thats why I am repeating them.
Why don't you guys just swallow a bit of humble pie, and take on board the criticisms?
We all get things wrong from time to time, no big deal.

[jiminski]

Wicked, I have made constructive suggestions. They haven't been listened too.
Thats why I am repeating them.
Why don't you guys just swallow a bit of humble pie, and take on board the criticisms?
We all get things wrong from time to time, no big deal.

nah, the point is they got it right Suggsy! just not right for us.

But they should try not to tell us to get on board and that we should try to help craft the best out of a bad job.. we did that. It just did not suit their agenda.

I honestly do accept that.

[lackattack]

Well then my question to you is then Why does C.C. have such a tolerant stance on Game Chat?
I dont understand how the one is different from the other.

Game chat doesn't go on anyone's record. Games don't "belong" to anyone and after the game is finished the chat is irrelevant. An unfair, provocative, rude written comment will follow you around on your feedback profile and with a -1 next to your username. That's too hard pill for many to swallow (maybe not for you, but believe me, for many!)

[Gregrios]

Has anything actually been decided?

....or are we just going around in circles?

Man oh man. I'm getting dizzy!

I still think we should go with the Gregrios system.

[suggs]

Oh, I think things have been decided. They've decided to go against the will of the people.
How nice.

[tzor]

Oh, I think things have been decided. They've decided to go against the will of the people.
How nice.

Or it might be said they've decided to go against the will of the annoying whining vocal minority.

[suggs]

Take it to flame wars.
So being critical of a poor system is whining now, is it?
The new system is in only one sense better, and much worse in every other respect. Thats not a whinge, just a statement of the facts. I'm sorry if you don't like the facts.

[Gregrios]

I've just come across my first problem with this rating system.

Today I received 3 new ratings. 2 of them were all 5's and 1 was all 1's.

Guess which ratings were for the game I won. No, not the one with the 5 ratings but the rating of straight 1's.

I won the game, attended every turn in timely fashion and was polite in the game chat. Yet for some reason I got all 1's in a rating from an individual that will remain nameless.

I've sent him a message hoping that he had simply made a mistake. If he chooses to ignore me, what can you the Mods do about it?