[Abandoned] - European Revolution

[yeti_c]

Just draw it on the map!

Which map?

The problem is - the attack that oddball describes is from the Minimap - to the Main map.

C.

PS - I've added a Poll.

[lt_oddball]

Just draw it on the map!

Which map?

The problem is - the attack that oddball describes is from the Minimap - to the Main map.

C.

PS - I've added a Poll.

(ps.. Your poll has the wrong question..the way it is now , it CAN always work, so technically it "will" work. The positive votes are meaningless. The real question is can it be made BETTER!.)

And to get from the main map to the minimap is like you planned : any province of that nation can attack the minimap nation/flag (any contestant in a nation of provinces can claim himself ruler of that nation without actually controlling all the provinces..like it goes in revolutions: chaos! ).
Or alternatively you choose only one key province to be able to attack the minimap nation/flag (the province which has the today capitol...(belgians won't be pleased with amsterdam/holland though ).



w.r.t. the round-table of 8 flags with arrows pointing to each flag which may cause clarity confusion how to know to attack which border province:
Around each flag you write the invasion border province names and the arrow of one nation points to the name of that province.
Something like a solarsystem picture: the circle of 8 flags is a solarsystem (without central sun) and each planet(flag) has moons(invasion province names) before it (facing the solar center) .
A nice picture to place in the middle of this "solarcentre" could be a wooden table..or perhaps better a paper scroll with the words "declaration of War" and a red seal in its corner.


to give a list:

Ireland to Britain: N.England
Ireland to Benelux: Belgique
Ireland to France: Bretagne
Ireland to Spain: Galicia
Ireland to Portugal: Douro
Ireland to Italy: Basilicata
Ireland to Germany: Niedersachsen

Britain to Ireland: Ulster
Britain to Benelux: Nederland
Britain to France: Picardie
Britain to Spain: Galicia
Britain to Portugal: Douro
Britain to Italy: Basilicata
Britain to Germany: Niedersachsen

Benelux to Ireland: Munster
Benelux to Britain: S.England
Benelux to France: Picardie
Benelux to Spain: Galicia
Benelux to Portugal: Douro
Benelux to Italy: Basilicata
Benelux to Germany: Niedersachsen

Germany to Ireland: Munster
Germany to Britain: Midlands
Germany to France: Alsace
Germany to Spain: Galicia
Germany to Portugal: Douro
Germany to Italy: Veneto ?(as if going through Austrian alps)
Germany to Benelux : Nederlan

France to Ireland: Munster
France to Britain: S.England
France to Benelux: Belgique
France to Spain: Gataluna
France to Portugal: Douro
France to Italy: Lombardia
France to Germany: Rheinland

Spain to Ireland: Munster
Spain to Britain: Cornwall
Spain to Benelux: Belgique
Spain to France: Aquitane
Spain to Portugal: Lisboa
Spain to Italy: Lazio (Napoli!)
Spain to Germany: Niedersachsen

Portugal to Ireland: Munster
Portugal to Britain: Cornwall
Portugal to Benelux: Belgique
Portugal to France: Bretagne
Portugal to Spain: Castilla
Portugal to Italy: Basilicata
Portugal to Germany: Niedersachsen

Italy to Ireland: Munster
Italy to Britain: Cornwall
Italy to Benelux: Belgique
Italy to France: Rhone-alps
Italy to Portugal: Algarve
Italy to Spain:Valencia
Italy to Germany: Bayern ? (as if to go through austrian alps)

So in the minimap round-table the Netherlands flag has only two invasion provinces placed to which respective arrows are pointing, whereas France has some 5 invasion provinces placed.

I hope it is visually clear without having to make a sketch..



PPS:
If the round-table depiction takes too much space try this:
1) Place France flag in the middle of the "solar system" in which the invasion province names face the other nations in the correct way.
or alternatively
2) Instead of 5 invasion province names in the minimap around a flag, just type "invasion province" before the flag, and have small flags placed on the beachheads of the invasion provinces on the main map.
So for instance you'll see in Spanish Galicia a collection of flags of Germany, Holland, Britain, and Ireland on the coast.
And a single german flag on the Italian Veneto northern mountain border.

Yes...option 2 definitely looks finer and instantly clearer to new players

[lt_oddball]

and oh , something about naming properly (in light of those times):

Benelux > LAGE LANDEN

Belgique > VLAANDEREN (= FLANDERS , the belgium concept did not exist then..or perhaps "Belgica" under the Romans..but Flanders were much much more significant in those days, and "screw" the Wallonians..what did they ever do for Belgium ?! lol)

Nederlands > HOLLAND (sorry to Friesland.. but Friesland was quite early involved in the Dutch East Indies company, so that warrants it to place them under Holland in stead of "de nederlanden".

Really "Belgium" and "Benelux" are something of the 19th and 20th century and should have no place on this map.

[yeti_c]

Really "Belgium" and "Benelux" are something of the 19th and 20th century and should have no place on this map.

Hmmm - the naming of stuff isn't really based on a timescale anymore... really - I want it so that people know where areas are easier.

C.

[oaktown]

Hey guys, I've been out for the past few days so I'm playing catch-up on this map. I'll probably rehash a lot that has been earlier in the thread, for which I apologize, but here's what I get to thinking when I look at the map as is...

To begin with, the poll question: will this gameplay work? Yes. But the gameplay needs some more thought, and the map needs more clarity.

I will second the concerns about the advantage of a good drop in a small country. I'd actually say you should make the starting neutrals on the minimap territories higher, not smaller, because the advantage will only come if you get the first bonus and are able to break out and hit others. If the starting neutral value is up to seven or so, once I get Portugal I have to start thinking to myself - do I waste armies hitting the neutrals, or do I sit back and collect a small bonus and give my opponents a chance to wrap up their larger bonuses? Because if I wait two rounds and all of sudden everybody else is holding a +3 or +4, my bonus is useless. Seven might be high, but I wouldn't make it any less than five.

The biggest trouble I see with the larger countries is that once somebody breaks through the neutrals every territory is a border territory. Say I'm going after Spain - I've got six territories to collect, and by the beginning of round four I've finally pushed my last opponent out and I've completed the region. But the guy who took benelux in his first turn is now entering his third round of collect four armies (normal reinforcements plus one) and he hasn't had to fight anybody all this time. His stack of 15 crashes through the neutrals and hits one of my unprotected Spain territories, and I have nothing to fight back with. Again, those neutrals should be high enough that it is really costly for the Benelux guy to come along and hit me.

Not clear from the map: to collect a bonus do I also have to hold the minimap country?

Bonuses: since every region ultimately has the same number of borders to defend - one - and borders the same number of territories - all of them - the bonuses have to based solely on the size of the region. Thus Portugal should be worth a bit more than benelux. I would argue for a straight, simple formula, like (# of territories) - 2.

The fact that on the last page of this thread mibi had to ask if the minimap is in play suggests that the minimap will need a bit more explanation somehow.

Finally my overall concern: what about this map is "Revolution?" The way this plays, you realistically have to control a country before you can hit a foreign power, and the fact that you can only hit a foreign power through one conduit but then you hit them anywhere seems more like espionage than revolution. A true "revolution" map would be more akin to the Iraq map, with cells of political groups that you could control and then use to disrupt foreign powers. I can see map concept that you working but instead of one minimap that has no logical explanation attached to it you have multiple political groups: control the Communist party in a particular country and you can attack any region within that country; country the fascist party in a country and you can attack any region within that party; same goes for the nationalists, anarchists, fundamentalists, etc.

I guess my question is this: when I take the country in the minimap, what am I taking exactly?

[lt_oddball]

I guess my question is this: when I take the country in the minimap, what am I taking exactly?

Look no further I have made good suggestions just the message before:

In view of the era 1500-1800's if you take a nation you take CONTROL of that nation and be able to bring your revolution (akin French in 1789-1795) to other countries. The difference with having your political cells concept acting pretty much independently in each country (apart from a couple of old tanks and handfull of planes and commissars..what did the russian soviets really do for the spanish socialists in 1936-37?) now that one player has a country you have the ability to declare war to another country with promises of more revenues that you wouldn't get if staying in your own country.
But staying in your own country (turtle style) is possible for those who play conservative making it indeed very hard for another nation to attack it ..but that is similar to real life (anyway tweaking bonusses can balance that during a few test runs).

[Ruben Cassar]

and oh , something about naming properly (in light of those times):

Benelux > LAGE LANDEN

Belgique > VLAANDEREN (= FLANDERS , the belgium concept did not exist then..or perhaps "Belgica" under the Romans..but Flanders were much much more significant in those days, and "screw" the Wallonians..what did they ever do for Belgium ?! lol)

Nederlands > HOLLAND (sorry to Friesland.. but Friesland was quite early involved in the Dutch East Indies company, so that warrants it to place them under Holland in stead of "de nederlanden".

Really "Belgium" and "Benelux" are something of the 19th and 20th century and should have no place on this map.

Forget accuracy with this map. The borders are present day borders and have got nothing to do with the times of the French revolution or the 15th century as reported on the first post.

Think of it as a revolution happening in Europe today. I think the map makers are more interested in gameplay and want to focus on the novelty of the gameplay aspect of this map and not set it in a specific timeline.

[lt_oddball]

Forget accuracy with this map. The borders are present day borders and have got nothing to do with the times of the French revolution or the 15th century as reported on the first post.

as reported in the first post?..that is the basis of this map! His starting concept !!
If that was the mapmaker's intention, then he should stick to it.
His mapstyle is "old fashioned" , so why assume he should drop that ?

I think those days of "revolutionary times" have a bigger appeal to players than fictional 'tory' or 'front national' take overs in european union partner countries..

And why such a big fuss over correcting a few names according to time frame?..it has been done before in the posts over certain provinces (Brandenburg) and nations (Deutsch in stead of prussian ?) without hassle.
I'd be more worried about the gameplay (this thing about going from (which) province(s) to nation and nations to other nations..and to which other provinces after that..
That is the heart of the game experience.

[max is gr8]

When do you expect this to be ready because I plan on using this quite soon in a tournament

[yeti_c]

When do you expect this to be ready because I plan on using this quite soon in a tournament

Probably gonna take a while...

I'm still deciding on how to respond to the above few posts at the moment.

C.

[hulmey]

this map doesnt look old or middle aged and its an interesting idea put forward but the map is boring looking. Lets see old and ancient with a medieval theme.

At the moment it just looks like another modern day europe map

[whitestazn88]

i suppose i'd agree with most of the other people who are saying that the image of the map doesn't quite fit the revolutionary theme, but it still looks good enough to play on

as for gameplay, i really like the idea, and i hope that this starts moving quickly through the foundry

[yeti_c]

Gimil's gonna be looking after this one til I return in September.

C.

[gimil]

this to the heap on vacation till me and yeti can discuss which direction were going to take this in.

[WorldConquer587]

I lik it clrfl and it does nt hv 2 many terr.

[Rih0]

Hey, I hope we can play this soon. I loved the idea.

[Industrial Helix]

You know, I just saw this one the other day and thought is would be fun...

[Teflon Kris]

+1 Auto-deploys for holding a country?

[natty dread]

The problem with this gameplay seems to be that each country only has one border.

[rdsrds2120]

Maybe have all the countries be able to attack each other?