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If I had one out of the 4 territories, another player had two and I went first I would certainly drop into it. If I went second and I had not much else on the map I would still play there and try and bluff my way into holding it. i.eFabledIntegral wrote:You've only played those settings (6p flat rate classic) 6 times total... not too much experience, although winning 66% of the time is by no means a bad percentage - before actually taking your word on the strategy however I think it would be best to get the number of games finished up, as I disagree with Australia being the end all for games, although it is significant.
Most players would be smart enough to if they see an Oceania building up, to let someone else easily take another continent as to preserve armies. As you said you'd go to great lengths to acquire Oceania, it also sounds like you'd put yourself in a weak situation to take it. For example if you don't drop anything in Oceania, but have a 3 on Siam, would you still try to take it?
Well the reason I didn't give as much credit to new players is that the board game risk isn't played as flat rate. It's played as escalating I believe, in which going for Australia is a VERY bad decision if you have 6 players or more (it's OK in 5 players, and decent in 4 and below). This is because the amount of armies you lose taking Australia will never be gained back - unless you drop 2 territories or have very lucky dice (which of course - this game is about strategy and not hoping for lucky dice, in the long run it wouldn't pay off) and manage to take the continent within the first 1-3 rounds.Mr Changsha wrote:If I had one out of the 4 territories, another player had two and I went first I would certainly drop into it. If I went second and I had not much else on the map I would still play there and try and bluff my way into holding it. i.eFabledIntegral wrote:You've only played those settings (6p flat rate classic) 6 times total... not too much experience, although winning 66% of the time is by no means a bad percentage - before actually taking your word on the strategy however I think it would be best to get the number of games finished up, as I disagree with Australia being the end all for games, although it is significant.
Most players would be smart enough to if they see an Oceania building up, to let someone else easily take another continent as to preserve armies. As you said you'd go to great lengths to acquire Oceania, it also sounds like you'd put yourself in a weak situation to take it. For example if you don't drop anything in Oceania, but have a 3 on Siam, would you still try to take it?
"I've got nothing else so I'm going for it whatever."
Or something like that.
If I held Siam and again had no other reasonable position I would proably drop back to China and hope to catch my opponent napping, as simply blocking Siam will just end badly for all concerned. In answer to your question though, no I wouldn't kill myself trying to get it, however I do like to lurk near and possibly catch it on cards!
Your point regarding number of games played would I think be valid on any other map on CC, but you must surely concede that a number of new players will have played a lot of classic risk before joining CC. I am one of those players. Including slight deviations I have played a few more than 6 classic games on CC (maybe 4 players and up some with unlimited fort) about 14 I would guess, though my percentage would drop to a still quite healthy 40% or so. You will just have to trust my word (and my words) that I do know my way around the classic map.
Yet the discussion is already moving towards either how to get Australia or what to do with it! So I want to firmly wrench it back towards how to defeat the player in Australia.
With regards to your point regarding letting someone else take a continent, this is likely to happen anyway in a six player flat rate game. South America is almost always held by someone early in the game, though the other players will probably be without a continent for the first 10 rounds or so. Nonetheless, Australia's income is still superior by far as South America is usually contending with an ambitious player in North America and often a player in Africa looking to take North Africa on cards. A defensive Australia (as I prefer to play it) must usually only concern itself with making sure Europe doesn't get going (and I will always come out of my shell to do that) as Europe has the income to quite quickly strangle Australia.
So with that in mind, might players in a game with a capable player in Australia actually encourage someone to take Europe, on the basis of Europe being able to squash Australia. To put it as concisely as possible, I am suggesting that the key to Australia's success on CC is that players will pathologically attack Europe, which leaves the player in Australia with absolutely no theat at all.
If the player in Australia is as boring and determined as I, he will simply bank his income, wait for the right moment and use those banked troops later to hold the positions he takes later in the game.
Flat rate was the default rule for RISK games sold in most of Europe during 80ies and 90ies, IIRC it stayed that way until the anniversary edition in -99. I actually never tried the "optional" esc rule so the first time I ever played an esc game was in -05 or something, almost 20 years after my first RISK game played.FabledIntegral wrote: Odd that flat rate was standard for your RISK - as CC added it on as a feature later on.
When I first started playing RISK I killed way too many neutral armies.Thezzaruz wrote:Flat rate was the default rule for RISK games sold in most of Europe during 80ies and 90ies, IIRC it stayed that way until the anniversary edition in -99. I actually never tried the "optional" esc rule so the first time I ever played an esc game was in -05 or something, almost 20 years after my first RISK game played.FabledIntegral wrote: Odd that flat rate was standard for your RISK - as CC added it on as a feature later on.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
I won a five player (no cards this time/unlimited/sequential) classic game from Europe yesterday.I was able to hold Europe for probably 15 rounds (there was also an Africa + South America), built up a large amount of troops and when I finally made my move still had to deal with Australia in a dog-fight.MeDeFe wrote:A recent sample of 100 randomly chosen flat rate and no cards games showed that overall, most wins come from either Australia or SA, about 1/3rd each if I remember correctly, the difference was only 1 or 2 wins so you can say that either continent works equally well.
However, when I checked my games on classic I found that 1/3rd of my wins were from Europe, and I maintain a 50% win rate on that map.
The best thing for the other players to do is to divide the other continents among themselves, if they keep attacking each other the guy in Aussie can sit it out and sweep the map a few rounds later. Good players know this and will act accordingly, I recall situations where 5 people had a continent each and a 6th kept deploying on one country in Asia. The key to winning against someone getting Australia early on is diplomacy.
To wit, Game 854738. I lost NA when the player in Europe beat me up before leaving the site. It'll probably stay like this until someone else leaves.MeDeFe wrote: I recall situations where 5 people had a continent each and a 6th kept deploying on one country in Asia. The key to winning against someone getting Australia early on is diplomacy.
To horribly paraphrase that great lady Mrs T: Mr Changsha is not for turning!!!OliverFA wrote:Shouldn't this thread be renamed to "Ways of defeating O on the classic map"?
What else would it be?Mr Changsha wrote: Let us also assume that the fortifications might either be adjacent, chained or unlimited.
Mr C
I meant of course that any of the three fortification options would be applicable within the scenario described. The main point was actually to exclude escalating cards from the discussion.zsp wrote:What else would it be?Mr Changsha wrote: Let us also assume that the fortifications might either be adjacent, chained or unlimited.
Mr C