Limited player maps

[Natewolfman]

i would like to see someone create a 2 player only stratego based map

[BaldAdonis]

Well this has completely borked my idea. I need 2 starting territories only :/

I know
Maybe we can have lack change the game engine: allow two to start if they're position tagged, so the mapmaker knows that only two will start.

[yeti_c]

You CAN have 2 starting territories - as long as you use the positions tag...

C.

[max is gr8]

yeti, you're fighting an uphill battle their, in short, It can be done

THERE!!!

[e_i_pi]

Well I'm gonna make my damn map regardless. Whether it can be done or not at the moment, which in one post apparently the answer is yes, and the next no, and back and forth... the xml can be fixed, I can't imagine it would be hard. Yum yum 1v1 maps here I come

[yeti_c]

Well I'm gonna make my damn map regardless. Whether it can be done or not at the moment, which in one post apparently the answer is yes, and the next no, and back and forth... the xml can be fixed, I can't imagine it would be hard. Yum yum 1v1 maps here I come

Give me a shout when you need the relevant info.

c.

[MrBenn]

The real answer is not whether it's possible (it is), but whether lackattack would sanction a 1v1 only map...

[e_i_pi]

The real answer is not whether it's possible (it is), but whether lackattack would sanction a 1v1 only map...

Good point Benn. I am definitely going to work on at least one 1v1 map, and hopefully 4-5 as a start. I don't expect the Foundry process to be easy or forgiving, and then there's always the final veto of lack. I think what's key here is that the map will have to show that it can hold it's own, and be worthy gameplay-wise most of all.

[Natewolfman]

The real answer is not whether it's possible (it is), but whether lackattack would sanction a 1v1 only map...

Good point Benn. I am definitely going to work on at least one 1v1 map, and hopefully 4-5 as a start. I don't expect the Foundry process to be easy or forgiving, and then there's always the final veto of lack. I think what's key here is that the map will have to show that it can hold it's own, and be worthy gameplay-wise most of all.

you will certainly have my support! ill stick with the map every step of the way on this one kick some ass eipi!

[lackattack]

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

[RjBeals]

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

So looks like a few 2 player maps will be finding their way through the foundry soon i guess. I can think of some really cool possibilities.. like pencil wars I used to play in high-school - where you thump your pencil on the paper and try take out the tanks!

[e_i_pi]

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

Thanks for the response lack. I will, of course, be putting a lot of effort into making the map special. I have been spending the past couple of months mulling over the idea, and ironing out how to manipulate the limitations of XML in order to achieve something different and unique. I've started drafting the map, but it will take at least 2-3 months before i'm ready to put something in the Ideas subforum.

[reggie_mac]

OK, so we can make 1v1 maps, does that mean we can make maps for say 4 players or less only? or 7 players or less only?

If your going to allow one, i suppose you have to allow all, right?

[Qwert]

Well from mine experience,you will not get any stamp,because when you present gameplay,and say that these is map for only 1v1,automaticaly you loose chance to get these stamp,i know that,because i dont get any stamp when i start creating WWII EUROPE,because Size restriction rule. I will be very supprised that you get any stamp.

[gimil]

OK, so we can make 1v1 maps, does that mean we can make maps for say 4 players or less only? or 7 players or less only?

If your going to allow one, i suppose you have to allow all, right?

The sites coding allows it, its just a matter of if lack allows it!

[reggie_mac]

Which is what I'm trying to find out, can one of you mod'ly type people get an answer on this one? or should i just start harassing Lack? or maybe the Monkey man himself?

Personally i think its a bad idea that will open a can of worms that would best be left alone, but i think with the number of maps we now have, and the number coming into development we are going to need a ruling on this one, just having it on a per map basis won't cut the mustard, it needs to be a yes or no thing.

[MrBenn]

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

I expect that the situation would emerge pretty much as qwert experienced.

[reggie_mac]

That is for the example of 1v1, im not talking 2 player maps, im talking Limited Player maps, so it could be any number, but not 8.

I've been through Suggs and Buggs, well as much as i could with the po-dunk search feature (sugg'd and bugg'd it) but didn't see anything i there suggesting limited player maps.

for example, say i was to create a 'hell' themed map, with the board based on a pentagram, came up with some seriously cool game play features and the like but was to say "Can only be played by 5 or less players" i mean, is that going to float, and if so can i do the same for 7 players.

In the Handbook for the gameplay stamp it says

Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2 players, etc.).

By my understanding this means that if you make any kind of map that doesn't allow for FULL playability on every single setting then you won't get the stamp.

Then in this thread we have lack ...

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

So these conflict, now if it was from anyone other than lack, i'd say that the Handbook is the rule, but turns out it isn't. So we need some clarification on that. And if it allowable to make limited player maps that needs to be put in the Handbook as well.

As for the can of worms.. well im sure you all know the sort of stuff we will be seeing

why is he(/she) allowed to and I'm not, my map is better than his(/hers)

this is F@#King retarded, i had a poll and people say they would play on my map so why isn't it getting stamped!

Not to mention how you define the rules for limited player maps

and so on and so forth.

So yeah, i think this is something that needs a Hard decision, and it needs it sooner rather than later. Otherwise we are going to see people going straight to Andy and maybe even Lack asking for there stamps, and why they aren't getting them.

I think the foundry works well how it's set up, but its getting bigger, and the bigger a community gets the more defined the rules need to become, not more rules, just more defined.

[MrBenn]

As far as my understanding goes, all maps should be encouraged to suit 2-8 player games, and that therefore 1v1 maps, for instance, should be discouraged. I would argue that a map that starts out to be a 5 or 6-player only map should also be discouraged.

If however, there is a meritorious argument, an exception could be granted. The only real reason I can see for a map (currently) being granted an exception, is where attempts to make a "really special" concept work are unsuccessful, or where the map itself is "something really special".

In either case, the decision to allow an exception would not be taken by any individual CA, but would be discussed and agreed by all of us, with lack having the final veto (which he would have in any case).

[reggie_mac]

So yes, you are allowed to make limited player maps?

I'd like to hear an answer from Andy or Lack if possible, just to save on any confusion down the line.

[MrBenn]

In the Handbook for the gameplay stamp it says

Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2 players, etc.).

Then in this thread we have lack ...

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

So these conflict...

These two quotes are by no means opposed to each other.
We discourage maps that have been "designed with specific/limited game settings in mind", but if there is "really something special" about a map, an exception could be granted.

So yes, you are allowed to make limited player maps?
I'd like to hear an answer from Andy or Lack if possible, just to save on any confusion down the line.

You've misunderstood the argument, and appear to be ignoring the comment from Lack that says "I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged."

[yeti_c]

In the Handbook for the gameplay stamp it says

Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2 players, etc.).

By my understanding this means that if you make any kind of map that doesn't allow for FULL playability on every single setting then you won't get the stamp.

Then in this thread we have lack ...

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

So these conflict, now if it was from anyone other than lack, i'd say that the Handbook is the rule, but turns out it isn't. So we need some clarification on that. And if it allowable to make limited player maps that needs to be put in the Handbook as well.

No - these 2 don't conflict - you are misinferring Oaktown's post...

What he means is :-
If you have a map that allows 8 players - then it should cater for all types of play available... i.e. Quads, Trips, Dubs, Assassin, Termy, Standard, 7,6,5,4,3,2 players.
If you have a map that has 4 players - then it should cater for all types available... i.e. Dubs, Assassin, Termy, Standard, 4,3,2 players...

You can't have a map that could have (say) 6 players - but should only be played with all 6 players... because playing with less makes it too unbalanced.

C.

[reggie_mac]

So... 'yes under exceptional circumstances'?

As i see it (which is why im asking the question) lacks answer was more to do with the 1v1 map reference which the tread was going down, my question is more general to the title of the topic. If i was ignoring it, i wouldn't have quoted it, then asked for a more definitive answer when it was quoted back to me .... twice.

So i'm not ignoring anything, im not trying to be a dick, im just trying to get a straight answer about limited player maps. yes or no.

--EDIT--

Right, Thanks yeti, now i get where its all coming from. so you can do it as long as its still balanced for the maximum number of players its designed for and any number below that. Cool. thanks....

ignore me now

[MrBenn]

It's not a clear cut yes/no decision, so please don't expect a clear cut yes/no answer.

[reggie_mac]

think maybe i asked the question wrong in the first place MrBenn, but Yeti_c has answered what i was trying to find out.

I guess the opening question never really got answer then the whole thread went down the 1v1 line, which was why i asked in the first place.