Validity of the Bible

Mirak · Post by **Mirak** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:09 am

Knight of Orient wrote:do all the non believers here celebrate christmas? ...........................juas curious

I go along with the holiday season...

Do all you Christians celebrate Halloween?...just curious

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:13 am

Mirak wrote:
Knight of Orient wrote:do all the non believers here celebrate christmas? ...........................juas curious

I go along with the holiday season...

Do all you Christians celebrate Halloween?...just curious

I don't. (and niether do my kids)

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:22 am

jay_a2j wrote:I don't. (and niether do my kids)

Now that's just mean. Why? Because of the pseudo-satan connection that Halloween has or because you actually believe those lies about poison candy?

Mirak · Post by **Mirak** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:18 am

jay_a2j wrote:I don't. (and niether do my kids)

That seems harsh..

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:25 am

Since you've already pronounced that you are an atheist.
Then, I will also make a relevation:-
atheist = SATANic.

Actually, both humans and angels are given free will to make up their own choices but the huge difference between humans and angels is when an angel sinned against GOD, it cannot be saved from the Kingdom of Darkness.

What's the rationale behind this? Salvation to the Kingdom of Light is only available to humans as revealed in St. John 3:16.

Humans (has the opportunity depending on one's own faith) > Angels, period.

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:32 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Mirak wrote:
Knight of Orient wrote:do all the non believers here celebrate christmas? ...........................juas curious

I go along with the holiday season...

Do all you Christians celebrate Halloween?...just curious

I don't. (and niether do my kids)

I don't take it seriously, but I do sort of celebrate it.

Mirak · Post by **Mirak** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:57 am

MOBAJOBG wrote:Since you've already pronounced that you are an atheist.
Then, I will also make a relevation:-
atheist = SATANic.

Actually, both humans and angels are given free will to make up their own choices but the huge difference between humans and angels is when an angel sinned against GOD, it cannot be saved from the Kingdom of Darkness.

What's the rationale behind this? Salvation to the Kingdom of Light is only available to humans as revealed in John 3:16.

Humans (has the opportunity which depends on your faith) > Angels, period.

I think somebody^^^^ may have over-indulged in Xmas cheer...

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:26 pm

"Mirak", are you a Moslem/Muslim since you may be from UAE?

Have you met and talked with Bertrand Russell, personally? Do you really know who and what he was? Kindly spend more time to read up about him and then share what you have gathered with us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:18 pm

MOBAJOBG wrote:"Mirak", are you a Moslem/Muslim since you may be from UAE?

Have you met and talked with Bertrand Russell, personally? Do you really know who and what he was? Kindly spend more time to read up about him and then share what you have gathered with us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

CONGRATULATIONS! You receive the Christian Wacko award!

At least Jay had some temperance to his stuff, but you my friend take the cake!

Humans > Angels? They were A) created first B) live in paradise with God at all times and C) have freakin' wings!

We have to do this ancient purification ritual, and they're just up there all the time. They're sinless, since the only ones who sinned are outta there.

Where's the Angel Jesus to die for Satan's sins? Surely, if God would do it for us poor schmucks on Earth he can do it for his homies up there in Heaven.

Imagine, no Satan. It isn't hard to do. No hell below us. No religion too.

Blumoki · Post by **Blumoki** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:36 pm

Hey i believe in anything if you give me proof.............

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:46 pm

"vtmarik", my assertions was taken out of context by you...
Humans (has the opportunity which depends on one's own faith) who shall be resurrected and are not blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life plus the Saints who are still alive during the times of tribulation or (apocalypse) as revealed in Revelation 6 & 8 > Fallen angels of Revelation 12:4.

"Blumoki", the proof will appear in the last coming of Christ as revealed in Revelation 19:10-16 but then I'm afraid, it's already too late.

stinkycheese · Post by **stinkycheese** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:53 pm

MOBAJOBG wrote:"Blumoki", the proof will appear in the last coming of Christ as revealed in Revelation 19:10-16 but then I'm afraid, it's already too late.

So you blindly follow something that isn't backed up by any proof or evidence? Congratulations, you certainly fit the label of sheep.

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:03 pm

St. John 10:27 My[Jesus's] sheep[that's me, alright! :wink:

] hear my[his] voice, and I[he] know them, and they follow me[him]:

St. John 10:28 And I[Jesus] give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my[his] hand.

cowshrptrn · Post by **cowshrptrn** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:12 pm

MOBAJOBG wrote:Since you've already pronounced that you are an atheist.
Then, I will also make a relevation:-
atheist = SATANic.

You do realise that atheists don't believe there is a satan or a god, therefore calling them satanic just demonstrates how ignorant you are. the way i justify being an athiest is that there are 3 main religions, each claiming there is god for essentially the same reasons, however each says that their god is the only god. How can all three be right? If one is wrong, then all three are wrong since they all justify it by saying that god, in some form, has dictated a book to a person on earth and that this book is in itself infallable and proof of god. Since all three can't be right, then all three must be wrong.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:32 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:
MOBAJOBG wrote:Since you've already pronounced that you are an atheist.
Then, I will also make a relevation:-
atheist = SATANic.

You do realise that atheists don't believe there is a satan or a god, therefore calling them satanic just demonstrates how ignorant you are. the way i justify being an athiest is that there are 3 main religions, each claiming there is god for essentially the same reasons, however each says that their god is the only god. How can all three be right? If one is wrong, then all three are wrong since they all justify it by saying that god, in some form, has dictated a book to a person on earth and that this book is in itself infallable and proof of god. Since all three can't be right, then all three must be wrong.

You're right, they all can't be right. But that does not make them all wrong. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:40 pm

What are the 3 religions?

cowshrptrn · Post by **cowshrptrn** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:43 pm

to 2dimes:i'm referring to Islam, Christianity, and Judaism (in retrospect, judaism might not fit. so we're left with two, Christianity and Islam)

to Jay:but Mohammed said that there is but one true god, and Allah is that god, how can you call Muslims wrong and Christians right when they both are saying the exact same thing?

It would boil down to:

christian: Your'e Wrong!
Muslim: NO You're Wrong
C: no, YOU're wrong
M:no, YOU're wrong

see how idiotic that is? i can be right becasue my saviour said i am, but your'e not right becasue your saviour said you are??

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:12 pm

MOBAJOBG wrote:"vtmarik", my assertions was taken out of context by you...
Humans (has the opportunity which depends on one's own faith) who shall be resurrected and are not blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life plus the Saints who are still alive during the times of tribulation or (apocalypse) as revealed in Revelation 6 & 8 > Fallen angels of Revelation 12:4.

Oh, sorry. I'd pegged you for a wacko. But now I see that you're just another one of those sorry people who interprets Revelation literally and who needs to do so in order for Jesus to be the Messiah according to prophecy.

You know, because without the final battle between Good and Evil as literalists interpret in Revelation, Jesus will never be a military king who's reign shall rule from sea to sea. Never mind that the revelation of John is an apocalyptic vision given to the author by God about the fall of the Roman Empire and the 'return' of the Messiah is a metaphor for the end of Christian persecution.

I guess the persecution won't ever end, now will it. Not with all these non-believers who can't accept the validity of a text who's proof is itself. And believers like me who, according to your narrow view of the text if you do indeed follow Revelation literally, will be destined for Hell because we don't believe that the Bible is really God's Word and have the audacity to exercise free will in the belief in God.

Then again, Jesus did say that those who pray loudly and beat their chest in public were hypocrites who want people to see their devotion so others will ignore their indulgence later that day.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:21 pm

Ok thanks Cow, I was thinking you might be talking about some other ones or one.

Judaism is rooted pretty much from the people that were decended from Judah who in turn are decended from Isaac.

Islam is rooted from the people decended from Ismael.

Both of them where sons of Abraham. So thier God should be the same guy even though in Judaism his name is sacred and unmentionable. While in Islam his name is allah.

Jesus was a Jew so I"m going to say his God is the same guy as any other Jew.

Not to discount the fact that you may have been around some ignorant religious people fighting and saying.
"you don't know God."
"no, I know him, you don't know him."

I am missing how they're debating about two or three that would be seperate and different? Should just be the one.

But every religion is wrong but mine right?

cowshrptrn · Post by **cowshrptrn** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:34 pm

its not a matter of right and wrong, its a matter of HOW can it be right and HOW can t be wrong, Hinduism has various texts that say gods came down to earth as people, and these are about as verifiable as Jesus resurrection, Muhammad's meeting with an Angel

When you throw in polytheistic religions it becomes a sticky situation, since how can a god be one and many, it defies itself. All of these religions have the same amount of credibility, yet all can't be right.

Its not jsut me viewing people arguing over which religion is right, its me observing on my own that the people in this forum tend to see it that Christianity is the only way to salvation, which is inherently false.

As an atheist, i see no point in religion if i can trust myself to act reasonably and morally and not need some higher being to be my babysitter.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:42 pm

The point of religion is someone figures they know something and have interpreted it correctly and want to share that with everyone.

One of the main problems with religion is, everyone is an individual.

Soon enough they will quite naturally interpret something differently. One of them has to be wrong by human logic so then they get to fight.

I have no issue with you if you want to believe the earth is on top of an elephant balancing on a cobra. Makes enough sense I suppose, Hinduism is neat.

morph · Post by **morph** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:43 am

you guys still argueing with this? ... is there something in the bible or somethin where god goes "whatever you hold true down in earth i shall hold true in heaven" if that is so, i do not have to believe in god at all, or think god exists, and if i hold it true that god does not exist... then it will be so... if i believe i shall join god in heaven and hold true to that belief... then i shall be done.. so ya... umm if that text is there, i win everyone loses kiss my arse and let it be done.. *loves watching the movie Dogma*

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:10 pm

The Jews are the chosen people of God.

Islam was founded significantly later than either of the other two Abrahamic religions.

Islam calls for its members to destroy infidels, especially the Jews.

If they worship the same God, why on earth would they want to destroy their god's chosen people?

cowshrptrn · Post by **cowshrptrn** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:57 pm

Islam doesn't call for its members to kill infidels, corrupt Imams use the Koran to further their own ends, just like many politicians use christianity to garner votes from their constituents

Islam is really a religion of tolerance and peace, just because people use Islam to garner support for violence does not make it a violent religion, look at the crusades, the pope used the bible to garner support for an attempted invasion of the holy lands where they looted and slaughtered thousands of innocent Muslims. Would you call Christianity a violent religion?

mightyal · Post by **mightyal** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:21 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:Islam doesn't call for its members to kill infidels, corrupt Imams use the Koran to further their own ends, just like many politicians use christianity to garner votes from their constituents

Islam is really a religion of tolerance and peace, just because people use Islam to garner support for violence does not make it a violent religion, look at the crusades, the pope used the bible to garner support for an attempted invasion of the holy lands where they looted and slaughtered thousands of innocent Muslims. Would you call Christianity a violent religion?

Yes, but I'd consider violent redundant.