U.S. concedes Georgia attack in South Ossetia was a mistake

[Juan_Bottom]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php?sid=427634

The U.S. State Department said Friday the Georgian attack in South Ossetia last August was a mistake, but that it did not justify Russia's large-scale intervention. The comments follow a critical newspaper assessment of the Tbilisi government's role in the crisis.

In its most specific comments on the subject to date, the State Department says Georgian leaders made a mistake when they attacked the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, in August.

But officials here say overall culpability for the war may never be known, and the focus now should be on getting Georgia, and especially Russia, to heed ceasefire obligations, and help return the region to stability.

The comments follow a New York Times report Friday, which quoted independent military observers as saying Georgian forces indiscriminately shelled Tskhinvali in the early-morning attack August 7, endangering civilians, OSCE monitors and Russian peacekeepers.

The newspaper said the monitors' account calls into question Georgia's assertion that the attack was precisely aimed at military targets, and defensive following South Ossetian provocations and a Russian military buildup.

Does anyone have a bter source for this?

[spurgistan]

Yup. And if we'd pushed Georgia into NATO, we could be at war with Russia because of a mistake not even really of our doing. I always say if a mistake leads to nuclear Armageddon, it'd better be a AMERICAN mistake.

[austrianeagle]

Hell, I think it should be a russkie misstep

[The Neon Peon]

Well, seeing as every single country in the world, includeing the U.S., including Georgia, including Ukraine, and Afghanistan, and any other nation you can think of made an official statement about it being Georgia's entire fault for the attack, and that Russia was retaliateing... that was news from over a month ago, check in any place outside of the U.S.

I am fortunate enough to have relatives in Canada, U.K, France, BelaRussia, Ukraine, Georgia, Russia, Khazakstan, and Moldova... all saying the same thing.

I would gladly recite the accounts of my mother's side of the family who are in Georgia, but that is too long of a story, and it was over too long ago for me to remember half the details on it. I usually call everyone on Saturdays/Sundays because the time zone difference is easiest to manage at that time, so if anyone wants a refresher, I can catch up on some more recent news then.

[GabonX]

How exactly does that qualify as a concession?

I would be very interested to see a statement from "every single country in the world" stating that it was "Georgia's entire fault for the attack, and that Russia was retaliating." Obviously it was a mistake strategically as Russia moved in and dominated the situation, but that's a far cry from condoning the actions of Russia. Quite the opposite, most of the international community called the war an act of Russian aggression and a violation of Georgia's sovereignty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ual_states

I could see Russia's side of the issue, that the regions in question have historical ties to Russia and that they should be allowed to break away, if not for their unwillingness to apply this same principle with the Chechens. Chechnya is to Russia what South Ossetia and Abkhazia are to Georgia and it seems as though Russia chooses to take whatever stance best supports it's territorial ambitions.

[strike wolf]

It better have been a mistake. They blew up all those dogwoods I had planted.

[DaGip]

Here's a clip from FAUX NEWS where the interview didn't go as planned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTorXbca6v0 . The people being interviewed went rogue and started telling the truth about what happened. FAUX NEWS had to immediately go to break and try to get the interviewers to not let the cat out of the bag. The American People were being lead (again) into thinking that the whole attack was Russia's fault, when that was definitely NOT the case. Georgian (under American aid and influence) was trying to provoke Russian into a conflict. The reason? America is preparing to invade Iran soon, and we need to distract Russia from entering the war. Keep an eye out for some conflict against China as well, as America surely doesn't want China entering into the war with Iran.

[Juan_Bottom]

Quite the opposite, most of the international community called the war an act of Russian aggression and a violation of Georgia's sovereignty.

That's actually pretty much the opposite of what happened. I have been following this story since the day it went live, and every reporter on the ground (and witness) was glad the Russians had come to save them. Georgia attacked Russia; In the area Georgia attacked, all passports held are Russian. Russia was technically saving Russian citizens from Georgian terrorists. Which is why Russia told NATO that if they did not leave Georgia, that they would be in state of war. They've also made statements to the effect that this was all set up by the US. I've linked all this stuff here before, I just hadn't been following this in a little while and wanted to know if anyone had better info on the US saying Georgia started it.

check in any place outside of the U.S.

And people say I'm nuts when I tell them this.

[Dancing Mustard]

America is preparing to invade Iran soon, and we need to distract Russia from entering the war.

By tying up a small portion of their military fighting a rinky-dink East European nation, which they defeated weeks ago?

Yeah... sounds plausible.

[GabonX]

Quite the opposite, most of the international community called the war an act of Russian aggression and a violation of Georgia's sovereignty.

That's actually pretty much the opposite of what happened. I have been following this story since the day it went live, and every reporter on the ground (and witness) was glad the Russians had come to save them. Georgia attacked Russia; In the area Georgia attacked, all passports held are Russian. Russia was technically saving Russian citizens from Georgian terrorists. Which is why Russia told NATO that if they did not leave Georgia, that they would be in state of war. They've also made statements to the effect that this was all set up by the US. I've linked all this stuff here before, I just hadn't been following this in a little while and wanted to know if anyone had better info on the US saying Georgia started it.

check in any place outside of the U.S.

And people say I'm nuts when I tell them this.

The idea that someone's opinion is less valid because they live in the United States is an ad hominem attack, and a poor one at that. It's ironic that it's only an issue when people are disagreeing with the status quo on the boards but not at all surprising. My family is stretched out across three continents so lets just move on.

Statements for one side or the other don't hold any weight unless there is a source to back them up, particularly when there is a source provided which proves these statements are innacurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ual_states

Since certain individuals have willfully ignored the provided source I've made a list of official statements which either support Georgian integrity or condemn Russian aggression. It's not true that all countries supported one side or the other but the majority of them which did not attempt to remain nuetral made favorable statements towards Georgia. The only countries which made favorable statements towards the Russian cause were small or rouge nations like Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, or Belarus. The vast majority chose to remain nuetral or to support the Georgian cause.

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania issed this statement on the conflict:

"We are calling on the international community to decisively condemn actions of Russia and to promptly take all necessary steps to stop the war and bring the parties to the negotiation table. Justification of Russia’s actions in Georgia by the need to protect its citizens is unacceptable.

Latvia, Estonia, Poland and Lithuania issed this statement on the conflict:

We strongly condemn the actions by the Russian military forces against the sovereign and independent country of Georgia. Following the unilateral military actions of the Russian military forces, we will use all means available to us as Presidents to ensure that aggression against a small country in Europe will not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimisers."

Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Lithuania and the Ukraine issed this statement on the conflict:

Toomas Hendrik Ilves, Valdas Adamkus, Lech Kaczyński, Viktor Yushchenko, Ivars Godmanis, respectively the Presidents of Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and Prime Minister of Latvia have visited Tbilisi together for the joint support of Georgia. The aim of this common diplomatic mission of European democratic states, which had been either satellite states or occupied and annexed by the Soviet Union prior to its 1991 dissolution, is a contribution to the territorial integrity and sovereignty of independent Georgia.

On August 12, French President Nicolas Sarkozy (on behalf of the EU) reportedly convinced Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin not to follow through with his plans to overthrow the Georgian government and "hang Saakashvili by the balls".

"The NATO Secretary General, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, is seriously concerned about the events that are taking place in the Georgian region of South Ossetia and said that the Alliance is closely following the situation. The Secretary General calls on all sides for an immediate end of the armed clashes and direct talks between the parties". In addition Georgia was given approval to join NATO as a result of Russian agression durring the conflict.

Australia: "Prime Minister Kevin Rudd called for an immediate ceasefire and respect for Georgia's territorial integrity."

Azerbaijan : "A spokesman for the Azeri Foreign Ministry, Khazar Ibrahim, said that the Georgian actions were in accord with international law and that Azerbaijan recognises the territorial integrity of Georgia.[33]According to Azerbaijani media, several ethnic Georgians of Azerbaijani citizenship in Qakh and Zaqatala regions of Azerbaijan had crossed the Azerbaijani-Georgian border to join Georgian forces. There is negative public opinion in Azerbaijan regarding Russia's actions in Georgian territory."

Canada: "On August 10, 2008 David Emerson, Minister of Foreign Affairs, released a statement on the continuing hostilities in Georgia: “I am very concerned about the expansion of hostilities well beyond the region of South Ossetia. Rather than acting as a neutral peacekeeper, Russia has escalated the hostilities through its attacks on Georgian towns and cities outside the conflict zone. Canada calls on Russia to respect Georgia’s borders and to desist from any further encroachment on Georgia’s territorial integrity.""

Denmark: The Prime Minister of Denmark Anders Fogh Rasmussen condemns Russia's aggression: "We have to insist that the sovereignty of Georgia be respected. There are no military solutions. There is only one solution: diplomatic negotiation. The conflict in the breakaway region doesn't justify Russia's aggression"

Estonia "The Estonian parliament Riigikogu on 12 August „condemns the military aggression of the Russian Federation against the Republic of Georgia” and states that „when the Russian Federation justifies the military aggression with the need to protect Russian citizens, it is using arguments identical to those used by the National Socialist Germany when it attacked its neighbours Czechoslovakia and Poland and crushed their independence. The return to such argumentation causes serious anxiety about world peace.” The Riigikogu calls on the international community „to assist Georgia in every way possible”. "

Germany "German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she had "to say that I found some of Russia's actions disproportionate and in particular think the presence of Russian troops in Georgia proper is not sensible. Russian troops should withdraw from central areas in Georgia." But she acknowledged some of the Russian actions were reasonable. "Both sides are probably to blame," she said."

Ireland: Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheál Martin, issued the following statement:
"I am gravely concerned about recent violence in the Georgian region of South Ossetia and attacks elsewhere in Georgia.
Ireland fully supports Georgian sovereignty and territorial integrity. I welcome the Georgian offer of a ceasefire and call on all parties to immediately accept this. Every effort must be made to keep the situation from escalating further. In this regard, the EU is working hard to find a solution to the current crisis. Ireland will be represented at an emergency General Affairs and External Relations Council in Brussels on Wednesday.

Israel: The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs released the following statement on August 10, 2008: "Israel recognises the territorial integrity of Georgia and calls for a peaceful solution."

Japan: "The Japanese Foreign Ministry expressed their condolences in connection with armed conflict and called on all parties to the conflict to cease hostilities and sit at the negotiating table. The Ministry also reaffirmed Japan's commitment to Georgia's territorial integrity."

Latvia: "On 14 August, the Latvian parliament Saeima issued an official statement announcing that it "condemns Russia’s military attack on Georgia and expresses its condolences to the relatives of the deceased."

Poland: "Jens Stoltenberg, Prime Minister of Norway has said "We recognise the sovereignty of Georgia. This conflict must be handled at the negotiation table, not the battle field.""

Romania: "Traian Băsescu, President of Romania has said (August 9, 2008 official press release) "... Romania reaffirms the need to respect sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia. ... Romania makes a call to all parties to show responsibility and to cease hostilities immediately in order to create conditions for negotiations to guarantee peace and stability in the region"."

Sweden: Swedish Prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt criticised Russia's attacks on Georgia, calling them "Russian aggressions in violation of international conventions." "Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs and Chairman of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe Carl Bildt said in a statement: "The way in which the situation in South Ossetia has deteriorated is cause for profound concern. It is extremely important that all those involved show restraint and play their part in bringing about a political solution," ... "I am particularly concerned about the impact of the conflict on civilians. Georgia and Russia are dangerously close to war and there is a great risk of this spreading to other parts of the Caucasus." Bildt further stated that the crisis is due to "provocations from the South Ossetian side" and that the Georgian forces are trying to "restore the constitutional order""

Ukraine: President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko "Freedom is worthy to fight for it. We came here to prove your sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence. That is our values. You never be alone. ... There are millions of us."

[Juan_Bottom]

The idea that someone's opinion is less valid because they live in the United States is an ad hominem attack, and a poor one at that. It's ironic that it's only an issue when people are disagreeing with the status quo on the boards but not at all surprising. My family is stretched out across three continents so lets just move on.

I'm an American. I live in Illinois. But that doesn't mean I trust our media to tell us the truth. Check out the "Russia friend or Foe?" thread, I posted numous stuffs in there. You can also go to thepowerhour.com, liveleak.com, or YouTube too(I assume) and see reports and witnesses explaining what really happened.

Basically, the media is outright lying about this. Wait... I have a good video on this from Fox News...

[GabonX]

The idea that someone's opinion is less valid because they live in the United States is an ad hominem attack, and a poor one at that. It's ironic that it's only an issue when people are disagreeing with the status quo on the boards but not at all surprising. My family is stretched out across three continents so lets just move on.

I'm an American. I live in Illinois. But that doesn't mean I trust our media to tell us the truth. Check out the "Russia friend or Foe?" thread, I posted numous stuffs in there. You can also go to thepowerhour.com, liveleak.com, or YouTube too(I assume) and see reports and witnesses explaining what really happened.

Basically, the media is outright lying about this. Wait... I have a good video on this from Fox News...

The media can lie all they want but maps don't and according to the UN the disputed regions were sovereign Georgian territory. The international response was largely against Russia and there is yet to be a substantive refutation of this fact.

[Juan_Bottom]

The media can lie all they want but maps don't and according to the UN the disputed regions were sovereign Georgian territory. The international response was largely against Russia and there is yet to be a substantive refutation of this fact.

This is a complete distortion of the facts. Firstly, the UN judges that are supposed to oversee these matters, REFUSED to hear the case. Secondly, the US blocked Russia from presenting the case to NATO. So here we have Russia seeking to settle this legaly, and being blocked.
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28902

Thirdly, the area that Georgia bombed/attacked contains a a population of mostly Russian Citizens, and is right on the border with Russia. Most of the people living in the area have Russian passports. Russia wasn't trying to capture territory, or win anything from Georgia, they were responding to a threat. Their citizens were were being massacred.
Now even if they weren't Russian citizens, this is still a case of Genocide.

You'll have to forgive me, I don't have many of the articles left on my computer.
Fox News 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxxZd2oNBWE
This isn't even the vid I was talking about, but this girl gets cut off by Fox News too. What is it with Fox News?

The international response was largely against Russia and there is yet to be a substantive refutation of this fact.

This is were the bulk of the distortion lies. NATO refused to hear the case, yet became active in Georgia. If you check out that thread "friend or foe," this lead to Russia withdrawing from NATO and telling them to back out, or face war. Literal, immediate, and terrible war. But that's not something you heard on CNN.

Anyway, Russia was not the agressor. Nor were they wrong from a humanitarian point of view. Which is the point I'm trying to make. International law completely failed here. And if it weren't for Russia, thousands more would be dead right now.


And on a side note, I do not see Iran or even Cuba as threat whatsoever. Rouge maybe, but dangerous no.
(untill Russia puts thier new missle systems in their countries)