Gilly754 LFAW [Warned]

[LFAW]

What the f*ck, thats an 8 player esc! You can't throw an esc game you complete idiot fitz.

I was faster so I got the kill.

Complete cock, everyone who plays Speed FS knows thats how the game works.

[AAFitz]

Only an idiot would not see this as suspicious. Another unbiased player suggests gilly suicided and you won, again. Further, he specifically says in the chat that he promises to go fast, and that he is capable of doing so, and then another players is surprised at how slow he actually was, and which was directly responsible for you winning yet another game and two other people were questioning his moves. And these are good players. Id say Brucewar is more than capable of knowing what makes sense, and what doesn't, and for him to point out this move, means he clearly didnt understand it at the time. This is a game where two different people cant understand what your doubles partner is doing, and how he lost the game.

Its just another game which like ours someone thought he had won, he made an odd move, and you won instead.

Call me what you want, and try to deny this is anything but coincidence, and that you just happen to get better when he is around, and that he just happens to get worse when you are around, and that he just happens to be your doubles partner. Honestly at this point I cant even understand how you even believe it at this point.

[chemefreak]

First, LFAW is a complete cockmaster Second, he is f*cking brilliant at Feudal. Third, I looked at a few of the games listed by Fitz and it does not seem to me that anything Gilly did helped LFAW more than any other player playing their own game would have. Now, if Gilly was winning half of the games, and LFAW was winning half of the games, I might agree. But that is not what is going on. LFAW wins as feudal...that is all there is to it...I think Gilly is an idiot for joining the games...no offense intended Gilly. But I don't see the "secret" diplomacy here at all.

[AAFitz]

First, LFAW is a complete cockmaster Second, he is f*cking brilliant at Feudal. Third, I looked at a few of the games listed by Fitz and it does not seem to me that anything Gilly did helped LFAW more than any other player playing their own game would have. Now, if Gilly was winning half of the games, and LFAW was winning half of the games, I might agree. But that is not what is going on. LFAW wins as feudal...that is all there is to it...I think Gilly is an idiot for joining the games...no offense intended Gilly. But I don't see the "secret" diplomacy here at all.

You arent looking. Again, LFAW is winning more when gilly joins.. His win rate goes up, gillys goes down. Im not suggesting they are chatting on MSN, im suggesting Gilly favors attacking the other players at critical times, which I saw first hand, and was pointed out in the other game, by players certainly good enough to read the situation. LFAW definitely wins at feudal as you say. He wins 50% of them. But when gilly joins, that number goes up to 70-75% and the rest of the players in the game are usually more than capable players. Yet Gilly has never won won a feudal game with him, and yet wins 20% of the other ones.

They may very well never have talked about it secretly as you say, but its fairly clear gilly is giving him games. I saw it in one, and two separate people saw him essentially make a move that not only cost him the game, but gave LFAW the game. The fact that LFAW and him are doubles partners, means this is beyond suspicion at this point. And again even if LFAW never talked to him about it...hes good enough to see it happening. Hell, he should honestly own up and offer not to play with Gilly, since anyone looking at these numbers and games can see its over the line.

Also, despite LFAWs comments, he seems likes a nice guy, and it really is clear that its Gilly is responsible for this, but that it isnt because he just gets bad around LFAW... He is giving him the games. I watched him give him the game I was in, and saw him favor him the entire game, from round three on.

[bridge2far]

yawnnn...
after skipping over the majority of the post all i've got to say about the issue is that some players just suck.

I mean, if you want to pull the same little game scan on ohh... lets say, demonfork who some how just managed to get to general....
and you see how many times he's won against players like...
endurance
Sohail88
ronc8649
TotoroHat
liam4240
masterkage777
SlickChrisDruler
black0panther
GARYQUINN

etc, etc...

you could say that they are all multies because one player has won the majority of the games against the other.

SOME PLAYERS JUST SUCK BUT KEEP JOINING 1v1's
.... happened to me, i play less 1v1's now because i don't think 3-8 points is worth 15-30 minutes of my time.

[AAFitz]

The difference, which you skipped, is that these are four player games, and LFAW wins more when he is there, and gilly wins none of the four players when hes there...

I also watched him give a game away, and showed another game that two other players thought he gave a game away.

Coupled with the fact that the rest of the games are with him as his doubles partner...just doesnt add up.

To say this isnt worth a check is just a ridiculous, and ive seen blocks on two players with a quarter of this evidence of cheating.

[owenator]

LFAW is an extremely skilled player in Feudal. But that's it. Just kidding LFAW! I have played a great majority of Feudal games and his strategy is sound. Perhaps a little research is necessary. If you're really going to quote percentages and approximate. Then, that sounds more like a guess. Simply stating "70-75%", is not concrete evidence. For example, if you stated "LFAW win's 72% of his games when X player joins...." then you would have a little more justification. However, LFAW is a very honourable and respectable player. It is not sound reasoning that he would have a secret alliance/diplomacy with another. Just my two cents.

[LFAW]

Whats the point in me having a Secret Alliance? 30 games with Gilly you say, 24 of which i've won, i've won over 2100 games Fitz.

[AAFitz]

Whats the point in me having a Secret Alliance? 30 games with Gilly you say, 24 of which i've won, i've won over 2100 games Fitz.

Im really not suggesting you are necessarily orchestrating this. Though even you should know better than to let him play in singles games with you at this point. I myself, would never let my doubles partner join 30 of my games, and win one of them.

Here are the numbers the other guy was looking for though

You win 50% of your feudal games.
with gilly you win 63% (the 70% came from your overall winning)

Gilly wins 20% of his feudal games.
with you in the games, he wins 0%

You get better, he gets worse.

and I know of two games where at least 3 people questioned Gilly, and thought he made a move to throw the game. I am one of them. Ive done more than my fair share of work here. If I were you, id avoid standard games, because though your friends are sticking up for you, people arent stupid. They know how this game works, and know there isnt something right about this. Its obviously not fair to the other players in the games.

[lozzini]

Whats the point in me having a Secret Alliance? 30 games with Gilly you say, 24 of which i've won, i've won over 2100 games Fitz.

Im really not suggesting you are necessarily orchestrating this. Though even you should know better than to let him play in singles games with you at this point. I myself, would never let my doubles partner join 30 of my games, and win one of them.

Here are the numbers the other guy was looking for though

You win 50% of your feudal games.
with gilly you win 63% (the 70% came from your overall winning)

Gilly wins 20% of his feudal games.
with you in the games, he wins 0%

You get better, he gets worse.

and I know of two games where at least 3 people questioned Gilly, and thought he made a move to throw the game. I am one of them. Ive done more than my fair share of work here. If I were you, id avoid standard games, because though your friends are sticking up for you, people arent stupid. They know how this game works, and know there isnt something right about this. Its obviously not fair to the other players in the games.

this is clearly wrong, as you have allready said in this thread Gilly has won 1 game against LFAW, so how could there be a 0% win. You are completely contradicting yourself and have to real evidence against LFAW

[AAFitz]

this is clearly wrong, as you have allready said in this thread Gilly has won 1 game against LFAW, so how could there be a 0% win. You are completely contradicting yourself and have to real evidence against LFAW

Actually, it is clearly you who are wrong.

You win 50% of your feudal games.
with gilly you win 63% (the 70% came from your overall winning)

Gilly wins 20% of his feudal games.
with you in the games, he wins 0%

You even quoted this yourself lol ...Gilly won 0 feudal games with LFAW . Thats 0%. He won one game total out of the 30 or so total games, which was a 3 player game. This did in fact bring his overall win rate up to 3%, which was mentioned before. But Feudal was used here, because the argument was that LFAW is a master of these. Well, he is. He wins half of them...but wins even more when Gilly joins.

Even if I did forget to include this one game, the number would have been 3% which is still ridiculously lower than his usual winning. Even that would not have been contradictory to the point.

[AAFitz]

What you guys really should have done to help your buddy out here, was instead of posting that its impossible, you should have looked at the numbers, and just suggested he didnt play with Gilly anymore in singles. I sure as hell wouldnt if someone showed me results even close to this. Instead, with it being very obvious that something is not right, you choose to simply ignore it, and just say that it isnt so, simply because you want it to be.

It is unfortunate that a player as good, and as respectable as LFAW is in this situation, and Ive agreed several times that its more than possible, he didnt even realize what was happening. However, i play with many of my partners in many games, and I would never let this happen with one of my partners. I would never continue to play with them, if they were going to lose every single game. Even if I thought they were trying, I wouldnt let them, because it just looks bad. Also, at this level, and this number of games, I myself would assume they were helping me out. Maybe not in every single one, but certainly at crucial times in games. That is what a truly honorable player would do. Especially since he himself agreed the statistics looked suspicious. Instead he calls me names, tells me im making it up, and says I have no evidence, and that im just doing it because I lost a game, which is just ridiculous. In anycase, the situation is clearly defined here, theres more than enough evidence to support my suspicions, and reason for posting my suspected secret alliance/favoring. Im sorry to all who like the guy. I like the guy myself, but I saw what looks like cheating, so I reported it. I posted before that if Im wrong Im sorry, but I dont believe I am. Ive seen plenty of games to know what makes sense and what doesnt. And there is no doubt something is off here. To be very honest, I think its just Gilly, and that LFAW should have realized this long ago. But since he was benefiting from it, or because he didnt even realize it, he didnt bother. The info is all there. I cant translate it for you. Make of it what you want. I didnt do this for myself, I didnt for the next person who joins a game with the two of them expecting to have a fair shot, when its pretty clear they do not.

[owenator]

As I've stated, LFAW is an excellent player and an honourable one. FYI, he has a 61% win ratio for Feudal War according to map rank (701/1156). With multi-player games with Gilly754 in those games, his win percentage is 71% (won 25/35). Now, if Gilly754 showed favoritism towards LFAW, that's a completely different story and something that a) has been over-looked, and b) nothing that LFAW has any power over. And, if LFAW REALLY wanted to win some points, he would simply set up some Feudal games and easily rise up the ranks. He's been there, done that. And realistically, in the end this accusation is over 20 points. I'm sure that if LFAW had lost that amount, it would be like spilled milk to him.

[LFAW]

What I think even Fitz understands now is I wouldn't cheat, and as I have said before in this thread, yes the numbers look dodgy but the fact of the matter is there is a game log in every game for a reason, look through them and it doesn't show anything about deliberately favourting me. Yes in some Feudals I don't even hit Gilly nor does he hit me... thats because we're in different castles and my strategy has always been *everyone gets a note pad ready* to wait until the other players hit eachother before I come out. Even if they hit me, having gone thru the neutrals before hand it means I can mop them up. I believe it is ridiculous

Gilly is a better Feudal player now and is a great doubles partner, you may claim that he favoured me in the Imperium Romanum game Fitz but I have already explained the log, you can see that we hit eachother down south on two occasions in the log, he took out I believe it was over 20 of mine in one auto to take africa penopolis w/e. He also attacked a number of more times but as they cannot be seen by the log Fitz can claim this is a load of bull.
Any chance the Admins can go into the game and see where attacks were made?

As he also said before, as Gilly can be slightly 'trigger-happy' on his attacking button, if someone annoys him he will attack them. This was proven when in the log he said LFAW you are starting to annoy me, down south he tried to retake my city. He also said Blue was annoying him and because he had nothing left, mopped him up.

What you must also understand Fitz is that in the game we played we ALL thought Blue was the big guy and he was for much of the game, he nearly killed me for christs sakes, I was down to 6 territs at one time. Him and Gilly had a war wghen I built up again but if you remember, only you could see me building up as you had the border with it.

I think this is more a game over a weaker playing style then him throwing me games but honestlt, I wouldn't cheat, I haven't cheated and I believe this is false.

Regards,
LFAW

[BoganGod]

Jeez, I haven't played Gilly754 that often, but have played LFAW on more than a few occasions, is a gent, not a cheat. Why not stop this McCarthist crusade, and play more CC? Or is accusing people more fun? GRRRR Why do petty beurocrats always invade any site after it reaches a "critical mass/size", With pencil pushing nancies watching everyone elses p's and q's this game will go to hell soon. It is only a matter of time until game chat in capitals is banned! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!!!! Now enough sillyness, play the game, love the game, and stop looking at splinters on others shoulders!

[BoganGod]

Further more to my previous post would like to add this. Have just played a one on one with Gilly. SORRY GILLY, this may sting a little. It was mentioned earlier, but Gilly isn't exactly the best feudal player out, with our respective starting positions, I know of about 8players UFAW included that would have smoked me. I managed to win quite comfortably.......

[AAFitz]

As I've stated, LFAW is an excellent player and an honourable one. FYI, he has a 61% win ratio for Feudal War according to map rank (701/1156). With multi-player games with Gilly754 in those games, his win percentage is 71% (won 25/35). Now, if Gilly754 showed favoritism towards LFAW, that's a completely different story and something that a) has been over-looked, and b) nothing that LFAW has any power over. And, if LFAW REALLY wanted to win some points, he would simply set up some Feudal games and easily rise up the ranks. He's been there, done that. And realistically, in the end this accusation is over 20 points. I'm sure that if LFAW had lost that amount, it would be like spilled milk to him.

FYI, I did 4 player fuedal games not all feudals which is why it was at 63%. Gilly did show favoritism, which I posted about 20 times in here. I even quoted two other players that pointed it out in a game. Like my game, it was one they thought gilly had one, and then he hit them, instead of hitting LFAW for the win.

Further, the fact that LFAW is a great player, and an honrable one, goes to show, that he should have seen what was going on here. I know all the players I kill regularly, and if one of them were my doubles partner, I would never let them in so many games, especially when they were never winning them. Most truly honorable players wouldnt. Also, these arent just games where gilly is joining and trying to beat his nemisis here. LFAW is joining these games. He is joining games against his doubles partner when he knows, he will have nearly no chance of winning. AND when he knows he will have a better shot of winning. So, this honorable above reproach guy everyone is supporting, is either taking advantage of his doubles partners weak playing, or taking advantage of his favoring him. And, when its clear there is something wrong, has the audacity to tell me Im making it all up, and that its over a silly game. Yeah, hes real honorable.

I know honorable players. They would never allow a doubles player to play in so many games and lose like this. Many wont even play with their partners, because they dont even want to take the chance that the other people will feel cheated. But not this guy. Hes perfectly comfortable joining games, and taking advantage of gilly's either incompetence, or compliance, and gets to win a lot by doing so. Defend that all you want as honorable. I just have a definition of the word, so I dont really care at this point. At least now, anyone who reads this wont be stupid enough to join one of these games, which are just a farce. Sure, they may have a 12% chance of winning a 4 player game, but im guessing they may want it to be a little more fair than that.

[AAFitz]

Jeez, I haven't played Gilly754 that often, but have played LFAW on more than a few occasions, is a gent, not a cheat. Why not stop this McCarthist crusade, and play more CC? Or is accusing people more fun? GRRRR Why do petty beurocrats always invade any site after it reaches a "critical mass/size", With pencil pushing nancies watching everyone elses p's and q's this game will go to hell soon. It is only a matter of time until game chat in capitals is banned! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!!!! Now enough sillyness, play the game, love the game, and stop looking at splinters on others shoulders!

Cheaters ruin the game for others. Many spend alot of time making sure that cheating is kept to a minimum.

Further... this thread, is a suspicion of secret alliance. Nothing more. I suspect games are being thrown here. Unlike your knight in shining armor here, Its not personal. I saw something that seemed like cheating and I posted it. I have all the info necessary in the first post, and plenty of evidence to make it a fair accusation. People had concerns, so I took my time to address them. Again, this is my suspicion. Its also a warning to any who might want a fair game. I assure you, even those who know the game, and are defending him have seen enough of this game, to know they would never join a game with two people that have this kind of record. As far as the sillyness, ill just assume youre talking about your own post.

[AAFitz]

Game 3313977

I looked at this one just randomly..lol

You guys really should have looked at these games before supporting this guy.

Gilly never touches LFAW in this game once. He attacks blue the entire time. Even when LFAW comes after him, he doesnt seem to have the need to attack back...he just keeps killing blue and LFAW goes on to win.

the other player wasnt very happy either.

Shizumu: what the hell are you guys doing that ROUND ******* 7 he has over 70?
2008-09-22 05:52:04 - LFAW: gg
2008-09-22 05:52:33 - LFAW: and a round 8 win
2008-09-22 05:52:58 - Shizumu: negative feed back on you all

another player who felt cheated

thats 4 in 3 games...

oh, and look at this gem...gilly conveniently deadbeats. Also, notice how long they both build for, before attacking anything at all.Game 3355862

[owenator]

Game 3313977

I looked at this one just randomly..lol

You guys really should have looked at these games before supporting this guy.

Gilly never touches LFAW in this game once. He attacks blue the entire time. Even when LFAW comes after him, he doesnt seem to have the need to attack back...he just keeps killing blue and LFAW goes on to win.

the other player wasnt very happy either.

Shizumu: what the hell are you guys doing that ROUND ******* 7 he has over 70?
2008-09-22 05:52:04 - LFAW: gg
2008-09-22 05:52:33 - LFAW: and a round 8 win
2008-09-22 05:52:58 - Shizumu: negative feed back on you all

another player who felt cheated

thats 4 in 3 games...

oh, and look at this gem...gilly conveniently deadbeats. Also, notice how long they both build for, before attacking anything at all.Game 3355862

Fitz,

again....I did state that it may be possible that Gilly may not attack LFAW. And if it is him showing favoritism, then it is certainly not LFAW's doing. Just to play devil's advocate; let's say that no PM was sent to Gilly and he simply chose NOT to attack LFAW. Would that be considered secret diplomacy? It would obviously be a fine line. Again, it may simply be THAT situation.

[AAFitz]

if gilly is repeatedly throwing games, then yes, it is considered cheating. my accusation is listed as secret deplomacy/favoring each other in games...because that is how it is referred. But even if gilly is just handing the games to LFAW, then yes, they would get blocked from playing together. In cases where there are alot of points, there even have been score resets, but in this one, its a relatively small number of games. The point of this whole thing, is to just make sure there arent more. I think its pretty convenient that after not playing together for months...LFAW joins three games in a row with this guy, 2 of them 8 player, and wins all 3. Two in which players are questioning gillys moves.

It is impossible of course to know the intentions, which is why one must look at the history. The history along with the other games that people suspected, including mine, make it pretty clear, that even if gilly is not throwing every game, he is certainly throwing some. Further, LFAW is a good enough player to know this, so he is not free from guilt here. If LFAW was simply starting the games, and gilly was joining them too, it would be one thing, but LFAW is joining many of these games, so he knows hes joining a game with his partner, who will never win, and has made some moves in the past to give him games.

He has profited from this, since he wins far more than his usual percentage in them. Two of the examples were 8 player games no less. He won both of them right in a row with gilly in there. The odds of winning an 8 player game is even much less than a 4 player game...and though gillys skill is definitely not very high, there were pros in there. In one, they were the ones that pointed out that Gilly threw the game.

LFAW is not a knight in shining armor here, with just some bad coincidences. He knows when he joins those games, that his chances of winning go up big. He knows if gilly has a choice of whos going to win, he will favor him. And worse, he suggests it isnt even possible, and that Im making it up without any reason with no evidence. These are not the actions of the honorable guy everybody is making him out to be. Further, im not even saying hes that bad...only that gilly and him shouldnt play singles together, because its obvious it just isnt fair to the other players.

[lancehoch]

Hey guys. Sorry that it took so long to respond. This is being looked at and I have added a [Pending] tag to the title. Please do not snipe at one another, we know that a bunch of you think that there is something untoward going on and others think that there is not anything to see. If you have any evidence to help prove one or the other, please post it. We do not need more posts saying "oh, this person is lying/exaggerating/bending the truth". Please take this to heart before making more posts in this thread.

[AAFitz]

Well, LFAW, I checked the games as you wished. I found quite a few cheating accusations in there. In many games. I posted them. For ease, I will post all the relevant information on the first page.

I am sorry this went on so long, but people had questions, and I mostly just answered them. I take accusations serious, so I put my time into it. Otherwise, without evidence they should not be made. Ill condense on the first page.

And believe me, I wish I checked their games and found nothing inconsistent. I get nothing here except protecting other players from the experience I and many others have had with them in games.

[KoE_Sirius]

Hey guys. Sorry that it took so long to respond. This is being looked at and I have added a [Pending] tag to the title. Please do not snipe at one another, we know that a bunch of you think that there is something untoward going on and others think that there is not anything to see. If you have any evidence to help prove one or the other, please post it. We do not need more posts saying "oh, this person is lying/exaggerating/bending the truth". Please take this to heart before making more posts in this thread.

No such evidence exists.
LFAW is a Master of Feudal.he wins game and doesnt need help.

[Timminz]

LFAW is a Master of Feudal.he wins game and doesnt need help.

It's not whether he needs, or wants, or even asks for help, that's being questioned. It's whether he gets help.