Catholics, are they Christian?

[jonesthecurl]

If we see the apostolic succesin as a kind of relay race, I think there were several fumbles. indeed there were times when there were two batons.

[PopeBenXVI]

You did not answer the question

Can we vote on that?

Oh yes, because epistemology based on whatever it is the majority thinks is perfectly valid, unlike falsifiability criteria.

Hahaha, Yes lets "vote on it" that always determines truth. Hahahahahaha. Good one.

Of course not, but whether a minor question was answered in a way most would understand or not ... yes, at times.

anyway, every hear of a "rhetorical question?"

I am not asking a rhetorical question and I am not asking if you have your kids wear helmets while riding down the road on a bike. I asked would you give them a helmet to PLAY in the road if they wanted to PLAY in the middle of a dangerous road. Or would you tell them not to play in the road ever and keep telling them that even though they hint they would do it anyway?

[jonesthecurl]

go look at
http://www.brianhartzog.com/beatles/bea ... e-road.htm
I think it might be relevant

[PLAYER57832]

I am not asking a rhetorical question and I am not asking if you have your kids wear helmets while riding down the road on a bike. I asked would you give them a helmet to PLAY in the road if they wanted to PLAY in the middle of a dangerous road. Or would you tell them not to play in the road ever and keep telling them that even though they hint they would do it anyway?

My question was the rhetorical one. You posed your question as a response to comments about AIDS, but it is a ridiculous comparison. The correct comparison is that I do insist my children wear helmets when riding bikes AND I teach them correct rules of the road. You wish to imply that a condom only offers the protection a helmet would if my children were to play in the road. This is just not true. A condom DOES provide protection.

The time for me to teach my children not to need a condom to protect against AIDS or anything else, is not when they are already teenagers and already having sex. The Roman Catholic church adovates ignorance as a response. It is not. Nor is purely teaching "don't do it". Kids today have access to too much information. We need to teach them WHY, not just the "don't". AND we need to ensure that if they stray from the path we set ... as kids sometimes do in all manner of things... it is less likely to be a death sentance.

P.S. this is not an esoteric question for me. I am a mother. I have teen & teen plus sons.

[Simon Viavant]

The analogy doesn't work because if a kid has a helmet and they get run over, they're usually screwed, but a condom will stop an STD in 99.99% of cases.

[Frigidus]

I am not asking a rhetorical question and I am not asking if you have your kids wear helmets while riding down the road on a bike. I asked would you give them a helmet to PLAY in the road if they wanted to PLAY in the middle of a dangerous road. Or would you tell them not to play in the road ever and keep telling them that even though they hint they would do it anyway?

My question was the rhetorical one. You posed your question as a response to comments about AIDS, but it is a ridiculous comparison. The correct comparison is that I do insist my children wear helmets when riding bikes AND I teach them correct rules of the road. You wish to imply that a condom only offers the protection a helmet would if my children were to play in the road. This is just not true. A condom DOES provide protection.

The time for me to teach my children not to need a condom to protect against AIDS or anything else, is not when they are already teenagers and already having sex. The Roman Catholic church adovates ignorance as a response. It is not. Nor is purely teaching "don't do it". Kids today have access to too much information. We need to teach them WHY, not just the "don't". AND we need to ensure that if they stray from the path we set ... as kids sometimes do in all manner of things... it is less likely to be a death sentance.

P.S. this is not an esoteric question for me. I am a mother. I have teen & teen plus sons.

I had no idea to start with that post and just gave up. Very well put.

[PopeBenXVI]

I am not asking a rhetorical question and I am not asking if you have your kids wear helmets while riding down the road on a bike. I asked would you give them a helmet to PLAY in the road if they wanted to PLAY in the middle of a dangerous road. Or would you tell them not to play in the road ever and keep telling them that even though they hint they would do it anyway?

My question was the rhetorical one. You posed your question as a response to comments about AIDS, but it is a ridiculous comparison. The correct comparison is that I do insist my children wear helmets when riding bikes AND I teach them correct rules of the road. You wish to imply that a condom only offers the protection a helmet would if my children were to play in the road. This is just not true. A condom DOES provide protection.

The time for me to teach my children not to need a condom to protect against AIDS or anything else, is not when they are already teenagers and already having sex. The Roman Catholic church adovates ignorance as a response. It is not. Nor is purely teaching "don't do it". Kids today have access to too much information. We need to teach them WHY, not just the "don't". AND we need to ensure that if they stray from the path we set ... as kids sometimes do in all manner of things... it is less likely to be a death sentance.

P.S. this is not an esoteric question for me. I am a mother. I have teen & teen plus sons.

Depending on the study you look at for the exact percents, helmets protect against 85% of all serious brain injury. It looks as if you would let them play in the street then.

Aside from that topic, (thank you Trollers) I think we have got off topic. My understanding of a Christian is one who believes Christ is God and that he is their only savior. On top of that Faith in Him we must do as He says by works of love/charity. You can have faith to move mountains (what some would call a saving faith) but if you have not love you have nothing. Love is clearly separate than faith but is necessary. 1 Cor 13:2

[Simon Viavant]

Depending on the study you look at for the exact percents, helmets protect against 85% of all serious brain injury. It looks as if you would let them play in the street then.

Yes, it will protect from serious brain injuries but I don't think that will help if the kid gets run over.

And also, 85% is not 99.99%

Really, what do want them to do, stop having sex? I think artificial insemination will also cause AIDS if that's your plan.

[Simon Viavant]

(thank you Trollers)

Please. The word is troll.

[jonesthecurl]

I think our mitred friend is quite aware of what a troll is.

[mpjh]

Yeah, it is the old "takes one to know one" truism.

And yes, I am a troll, so you don't have to remind me.

[joecoolfrog]

The topic of Aids was introduced as a response to Popey smugly congratulating his church for its multitude of good deads.....introducing balance is not trolling!

[PopeBenXVI]

(thank you Trollers)

Please. The word is troll.

You have trolled
You are trolling
You are a troller
You like to troll
You live under a bridge and eat Billy goats
You are ugly

Again, to try and get back on track. I would welcome comments about the topic on this thread.

[Simon Viavant]

(thank you Trollers)

Please. The word is troll.

You have trolled
You are trolling
You are a troller
You like to troll
You live under a bridge and eat Billy goats
You are ugly

Again, to try and get back on track. I would welcome comments about the topic on this thread.

FLAME!!!!!

[jonesthecurl]

Do bears enter forested areas to defecate?
Is Pope Ben a Catholic?

(did that help?)

[Simon Viavant]

Troll is a verb and a noun for those of you who are a little slow.

[jonesthecurl]

I'm not daft. I just talk slow...

[Frigidus]

On topic then, Catholics aren't Christian, because Christians aren't inherently evil.

[PopeBenXVI]

I was being sarcastic for those of you who are a little slow.

[jonesthecurl]

I'm not daft. I just talk slow...

..ly.

[PLAYER57832]

Depending on the study you look at for the exact percents, helmets protect against 85% of all serious brain injury.

That statistic includes very minor accidents, which actually constitute the majority.

It looks as if you would let them play in the street then.

Then you missed the second part of what I said. Specifically, that I teach my children the rules of the road (which includes not playing in an open street). The helmet is a backup .. it offers what protection is available should they NOT follow the rules, or should a driver screw up.

By your logic, the mere fact that I give my children a helmet ENCOURAGES them to play in the street, but that is simply not true.

I would never suggest handing out condoms as "the solution". I don't think ANY intelligent human being sees them that way. They are what protection is available for risky behavior. When they are not available, the behavior still happens. A condom just helps ensure that this failure of a child's morals is less likely to result in a death sentance. It is not saying the behavior is OK any more than giving my child a helmet tells them it is OK to play in the streets, to use your analogy.

The REAL way to deal with this is not to forbid the protection, it is to TEACH your children your values, whether it is rules of the road or rules for sex.

Furthermore, the rules of our country apply to all, not just Roman Catholics and as much as you might wish otherwise, not everyone shares your values, thinks them particularly wonderful. When the Roman Catholic church insists that public policy follows THEIR view of religion, then they are putting thousands who are not even Roman Catholic at risk. If you wish to convert everyone to Roman Catholocism, then you are free to educate. Blocking people from using protections and safegaurds because the behavior is not consistant with Roman Catholic teachings is the worst sort of religious descrimination imaginable.

We ought to be long past the time when people of other religions are burned at the stake or ostracized. Yet, the church sees nothing wrong with endangering the lives of millions of teens and adults who happen to have differant values than they. The church effectively condones given millions a death sentance simply because they don't live the way you wish. (and, I might add those millions include many married women in third world countries).

Aside from that topic, (thank you Trollers) I think we have got off topic. My understanding of a Christian is one who believes Christ is God and that he is their only savior. On top of that Faith in Him we must do as He says by works of love/charity. You can have faith to move mountains (what some would call a saving faith) but if you have not love you have nothing. Love is clearly separate than faith but is necessary. 1 Cor 13:2

I would simplify it further. You are saved if you believe Christ died on the cross for our sins.

The rest is all about how we should best live our lives to be happy, healthy and closer to God.


However, I would ask this. How does denying sexually active teens condoms or knowledge of sexually transmitted diseases profess love for your fellow human.

[mpjh]

And if you don't believe that the man Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but because he was a human revolutionary threatening the power structure, what happens to you?

[Frigidus]

And if you don't believe that the man Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but because he was a human revolutionary threatening the power structure, what happens to you?

Hell, bitch! Enjoy fire dickwad! It's like the worst pain you've ever felt, except it never ends. That'll learn ya for disagreeing.

[PLAYER57832]

And if you don't believe that the man Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but because he was a human revolutionary threatening the power structure, what happens to you?

Per my church, that is not up to us to decide, it is between you and God. However, our church teaches that you must accept that Christ died on the cross for your sins to be saved.

(as for the fuller answer ... I think we went over this in the other religion threads).

[mpjh]

Well, if that is the rule, see you in hell frigidus. No way am I going to buy into any religion that punishes skepticism, glorifies intolerance, and excuses murder in the name of war. That pretty much leaves me on the outs with religion, except maybe Buddhism or the Quakers.