I'll admit it after 4,500 Games

[maniacmath17]

WOW!!!! thats so cool. What the hell does it have to do with CC or the Dice?

It shows that a string with an even distribution of 1-6 can still heavily favor an attacker. CC gets its dice from a computer generated string.

[Kotaro]

I am complaining because the dice come and go in streaks. I don't get average dice I get unbelievably good and unbelievably bad dice game after game.

Bullshit. You're complaining the dice aren't random. They are. You've gotten lucky and now you're complaining about it. I've gone through 20 armies with 10 before losing none, and than immediately lost all to a 1. It's random, you just concentrate on the good/bad streaks and use those as a basis for claims that you know are bs.

[MrMoody]

WOW!!!! thats so cool. What the hell does it have to do with CC or the Dice?

It shows that a string with an even distribution of 1-6 can still heavily favor an attacker. CC gets its dice from a computer generated string.

Wrong again on where and how CC gets its dice. I'll try to find the facts in the forum.

[Bruceswar]

WOW!!!! thats so cool. What the hell does it have to do with CC or the Dice?

It shows that a string with an even distribution of 1-6 can still heavily favor an attacker. CC gets its dice from a computer generated string.

Wrong again on where and how CC gets its dice. I'll try to find the facts in the forum.

Random.org is nothing more than a generated string of dice. Next... MM17 1 MM 0

[LFAW]

I am complaining because the dice come and go in streaks. I don't get average dice I get unbelievably good and unbelievably bad dice game after game.

Bullshit. You're complaining the dice aren't random. They are. You've gotten lucky and now you're complaining about it. I've gone through 20 armies with 10 before losing none, and than immediately lost all to a 1. It's random, you just concentrate on the good/bad streaks and use those as a basis for claims that you know are bs.

They are not bullshit when every game seemingly unbelievable dice occur. Even ChipV has come in and said that Random.Org runs off a string of dice.

That is why we need to change providers.

[chipv]

I am complaining because the dice come and go in streaks. I don't get average dice I get unbelievably good and unbelievably bad dice game after game.

Bullshit. You're complaining the dice aren't random. They are. You've gotten lucky and now you're complaining about it. I've gone through 20 armies with 10 before losing none, and than immediately lost all to a 1. It's random, you just concentrate on the good/bad streaks and use those as a basis for claims that you know are bs.

They are not bullshit when every game seemingly unbelievable dice occur. Even ChipV has come in and said that Random.Org runs off a string of dice.

That is why we need to change providers.

I didn't say that because it wasn't the point I was making.

Changing providers won't remove spurious occurrences, the problem isn't there, it's how the dice are allocated to each user when
multiple users are taking their turns at the same time. A solution would be to allow users to specify at what point to stop attacking thereby allowing CC to know in advance how many dice to allocate in one go, otherwise it has no way of knowing in advance when you will stop attacking for single attacks. That would at least give single attacks a contiguous block of random dice (like auto attack).The distribution of dice rolls cannot currently be guaranteed to be random if you do successive attacks regardless of provider except if you do a single auto attack. The solution above may resolve single attacks against a single territory but when your turn involves attacking several territories you would then need to be able to specify this sequence of territories for CC to provide a contiguous block for the whole set of attacks which you can't do currently. If there was a way to specify a sequence of attacks then this would be possible but that might be unpopular.

[MrMoody]

WOW!!!! thats so cool. What the hell does it have to do with CC or the Dice?

It shows that a string with an even distribution of 1-6 can still heavily favor an attacker. CC gets its dice from a computer generated string.

Wrong again on where and how CC gets its dice. I'll try to find the facts in the forum.

Random.org is nothing more than a generated string of dice. Next... MM17 1 MM 0

Hey bruce go troll/bait someone else with your (MM17 1 MM 0 ) score keeping. You changed the wording on what was being said.

[maniacmath17]

Hey bruce go troll/bait someone else with your (MM17 1 MM 0 ) score keeping. You changed the wording on what was being said.

Where did he change the wording? Looks the same to me.

[MrMoody]

Hey bruce go troll/bait someone else with your (MM17 1 MM 0 ) score keeping. You changed the wording on what was being said.

Where did he change the wording? Looks the same to me.

Your claim this file is a string of numbers made by a "random number generator" is not the same as bruce saying "generated string of dice". Just not the same. First search CC forum for Dice threads that Lackattack has posted in. You will find a better explanation on how the file works. Second go to random.org and read what they use to generate the files/numbers.

[Fruitcake]

First quick visit to the forum in weeks and what do I see? The old argument.

Here's my take. The dice generator covers a huge amount of ground with the number of strings in it. The problem, as I have always seen it, is this. If you are unlucky, you could keep getting the poor strings while others received the rest (as happened to me a few months back when I lost 400 points). The ultimate way to deliver the dice would be for each player to be loaded with the complete file, then each line randomly chosen and delivered, after delivery that line is discarded. Yes this would mean a player still receives bad runs, but also receives the good and all the average runs. Once the file for that player is used up, then the file is reloaded and the process starts again. I seem to recall Chip did an analysis of the strings and concluded the overall delivery % were correct so one can safely assume that this would ensure everyone gets the same bit of the cherry so to speak.

Now I am not sure, but I imagine the load on the server would massively increase if this was the case (imagine 23,000 players all with 50,000 lines each. Although others may say this wouldn’t actually be all that difficult). Furthermore, I have no idea how much coding work this would entail. Maybe this is why it has not been considered as an option.

If each player had the same 50,000 lines loaded, then randomly delivered, every player would ultimately have the same level of chances.

[freakns]

Point is why did not one of the single attacks work at all? 0 for 8, yet every single auto attack worked? Should they both not be the same in a sense?

its easy to explain actually.
in autoattack, you will get the sample of lets say 99 rolls from 500000 string against 66 rolls from 500000 string. as statistical probability, attacker will have statistical advantage and thus winning the most of attacks.
in single attack, you will have sample of 3 rolls from 500000 and 2 rolls from 500000 and it will generate every time you make a move.
in other words, autoattack rolls 99 dices against 66 and single rolls 3 against 2, thus leaving much more room for statistical mistake in single attack. and since its random and not luck, im pretty sure if you roll 500000 against 500000 on autoattack that you will get exact same results as statistic predicts.



as for the random rolls, its getting to the point beyond ridiculous. im just trying no to give too much damn about it, even thou it can kill your strategy and really pissing you off

[chipv]

First quick visit to the forum in weeks and what do I see? The old argument.

Here's my take. The dice generator covers a huge amount of ground with the number of strings in it. The problem, as I have always seen it, is this. If you are unlucky, you could keep getting the poor strings while others received the rest (as happened to me a few months back when I lost 400 points). The ultimate way to deliver the dice would be for each player to be loaded with the complete file, then each line randomly chosen and delivered, after delivery that line is discarded. Yes this would mean a player still receives bad runs, but also receives the good and all the average runs. Once the file for that player is used up, then the file is reloaded and the process starts again. I seem to recall Chip did an analysis of the strings and concluded the overall delivery % were correct so one can safely assume that this would ensure everyone gets the same bit of the cherry so to speak.

Now I am not sure, but I imagine the load on the server would massively increase if this was the case (imagine 23,000 players all with 50,000 lines each. Although others may say this wouldn’t actually be all that difficult). Furthermore, I have no idea how much coding work this would entail. Maybe this is why it has not been considered as an option.

If each player had the same 50,000 lines loaded, then randomly delivered, every player would ultimately have the same level of chances.

Very good post, you can see what is happening obviously. Yes you're right it's not feasible to give everyone the same lines and neither is it feasible to attempt to pre-allocate a block per user as CC doesn't know in advance how many attacks (and hence how many dice) will be used per turn. CC might be able to guess this from the number of armies available but then it would have to do memory management on the discarded unused dice - I think this actually costs money which is why I think no dice can be discarded. In addition giving everyone the same lines would give away in advance the dice rolls to players who haven't played yet but are observing someone else's rolls. By allowing people to specify when to stop an auto-attack this at least reduced the probability of freak dice by telling CC in advance how many dice are required for a sequence of attacks.

[maniacmath17]

Your claim this file is a string of numbers made by a "random number generator" is not the same as bruce saying "generated string of dice". Just not the same. First search CC forum for Dice threads that Lackattack has posted in. You will find a better explanation on how the file works. Second go to random.org and read what they use to generate the files/numbers.

I said: "CC gets its dice from a computer generated string."
He said: "Random.org is nothing more than a generated string of dice"

I guess the difference you got so upset about was the word computer. Lets pretend I said "atmospheric noise" instead. Happy? I still stand by everything I said.

[gimil]

Okay, here's how the dice work:

I have a list of 50,000 dice rolls I got from random.org. Each line in the file looks like this: A1 A2 A3 D1 D2

So each time you attack I only use the numbers you need and then erase the line from the file. When the file is empty it is automatically re-loaded. We currently consume 30,000 rolls each day.

So every 50,000 rolls the dice repeat themselves, and this is why I don't want to publish the list. If you attack twice quickly at 4:00 AM Montreal time, there is a good chance you would get consecutive lines in the file. Granted, it would be very hard to cheat if you had the file but I'm not sure it should be made public.

Maybe my 50,000 rolls does have a lot of lossing streaks in it. Maybe I should replace it with another file with higher variance. If anyone knows how to assess the variance of a file of 50,000 dice rolls please raise your hand!

Sorry Gimil but your just way off on how the numbers in the file work

I think this is just explained differently. The numbers are jsut allready organised into attacker/defender dice. But thse dice still came from a randomly generated list of numbers. So what I said still works and is correct.

What I didn't know was that the same list of numbers was reset and used again. Perhaps this explains why dice are streaky because you always at some point or another come back to the same good/bad luck strings in the list. I don't know how expensive it is to use random.org (past the free allowance) but perhaps with the size of the site and the files resetting something like every 36 hours maybe the idea of getting a another 2-3 generated strings of 50,000 dice rolls to increase the pool of different rolls by 100,000. I am no mathimatician so I don't actually know if 50,000 rolls covers every combination of dice rolls (althought it sounds like a high enought number to cover all).

[owenator]

LFAW, you're going to like this one. Lest we forget people: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1675072 Randomness? I smell bullsh*t. The dice logic is certainly random if you're going to have a first turn like that. On a side note, I think the original post should have been merged to my complaint/vent/frustration thread: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... =6&t=86027

[jakejakejakejake]

We could always replace the die with a magic 8 ball.

[gimil]

We could always replace the die with a magic 8 ball.

Will I win my autoattack?

Click image to enlarge.