Tiananmen Square

[PLAYER57832]

Twenty years ago some unarmed students attempting to protest were mowed down by army police.

In China... few born since even know the events occured.

Websites are blocked and the Square is blocked off to prevent any chance of protests.

[SultanOfSurreal]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

[Nobunaga]

... I spoke with a doctor who was present when the troops moved in on the square. He was just there to watch, like so many, not to participate.

... He wound up performing triage on the ones who had been shot. Not a single ambulance showed up. The wounded were carried on bicycles to hospitals where they were denied treatment. Most died.

... He asked me why Americans don't know this kind of thing went on. We know about the protest and that one incredibly gutsy kid who stood in front of that tank, but we never had news reports on the six hundred or so who who were simply shot.

...

[bedub1]

china is barbaric.

[xelabale]

china is barbaric.

All of it?

[PLAYER57832]

china is barbaric.

All of it?

The government.

And, to a point, the people who allow the government to do what they will without objection.

[pimpdave]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

word.

dude's my hero.

[GabonX]

Twenty years ago some unarmed students attempting to protest were mowed down by army police.

In China... few born since even know the events occured.

Websites are blocked and the Square is blocked off to prevent any chance of protests.

What is the Chinese position on homosexuality? It may become our position in our lifetime, particularly if the gun control and anti military advocates get their way.

[got tonkaed]

Twenty years ago some unarmed students attempting to protest were mowed down by army police.

In China... few born since even know the events occured.

Websites are blocked and the Square is blocked off to prevent any chance of protests.

What is the Chinese position on homosexuality? It may become our position in our lifetime, particularly if the gun control and anti military advocates get their way.

surely they would have had far less to do with it than every company who went over there and basically gave away intellectual property rights and the technological advances they had for a decade of profit.

[PLAYER57832]

Twenty years ago some unarmed students attempting to protest were mowed down by army police.

In China... few born since even know the events occured.

Websites are blocked and the Square is blocked off to prevent any chance of protests.

What is the Chinese position on homosexuality? It may become our position in our lifetime, particularly if the gun control and anti military advocates get their way.

surely they would have had far less to do with it than every company who went over there and basically gave away intellectual property rights and the technological advances they had for a decade of profit.

Not to mention relaxing of tarrifs and other "protectionist" measures because they would be "anti-competition".

If there is one country NOT likely to overthrow us violently, it is China! Why should they? They already own much of the US as it is.

[muy_thaiguy]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

Surprisingly, if you go to China Google (www.google.cn), and search Tank Man, the pictures show up on images. I just don't think many people there know about it, hence why it is not blocked.

[Nobunaga]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

Surprisingly, if you go to China Google (http://www.google.cn), and search Tank Man, the pictures show up on images. I just don't think many people there know about it, hence why it is not blocked.

... Looking at pics through Google China in Wyoming is not the same experience as looking at it while sitting in Guangdong or Shanghai. The filters aren't here.

...

[muy_thaiguy]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

Surprisingly, if you go to China Google (http://www.google.cn), and search Tank Man, the pictures show up on images. I just don't think many people there know about it, hence why it is not blocked.

... Looking at pics through Google China in Wyoming is not the same experience as looking at it while sitting in Guangdong or Shanghai. The filters aren't here.

...

True, but I have no idea what it says in Chinese.

[radiojake]

I saw one Chinese civilian on the news being interviewed about the 'tiananmen square event' - as it is known over there - he would've been old enough to have been alive when it happened, but only very young.

Anyway, the jist of the reportors translation was to the effect of 'We have more freedoms now than twenty years ago, so whatever did happen in 1989, it doesn't have any real effect on how we live today' - or thereabouts..

China is definately winning the race to the Orwellian world that has so many people paranoid. They have successfully altered past events to suit their needs. Scary stuff.

[PLAYER57832]

NPR has done some interviews. The reporter indicated she did not have a lot of trouble, but that was because she did the interviews long in advance of the day. She said several of the younger people she spoke with initially said it was OK to use their name, but later called and said "please leave my name out".

One girl, in particular said she knew little, but had seen a very brief note saying that the Chinese government had attacked unarmed students on that day and she was curious to know more, feeling that her government must have had reasons, she just wanted to know more.

A history teacher said he was free to teach it, but that students just were not interested.

A historian, not in China, but an expert on Chinese culture said that China is essentially eliminating any curiousity about history. Young people are not even taught to question events or find out how things happen. His opinion was that this would have profound effects on future Chinese culture.

[Nobunaga]

... One very important thing to remember when discussing the Chinese is their belief in the superiority of their culture to all others. They are like us in that regard and have at least as much national pride as do we.

... Also like the US but to a much greater extent the people are kept ignorant. Here it is done with third-rate public schools, reality TV and fantasy football. There it is done with internet filters, scary-as-hell cops everywhere, the People's News and meaningless obsession with western fads.

... And they are absolutely obsessed with money (it's a new thing, being able to make real money and buy stuff).

...

[PLAYER57832]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

Surprisingly, if you go to China Google (http://www.google.cn), and search Tank Man, the pictures show up on images. I just don't think many people there know about it, hence why it is not blocked.

Some things that were previously allowed were blocked as the anniversary approached. I don't know if that image was one.

[PLAYER57832]

... Also like the US but to a much greater extent the people are kept ignorant. Here it is done with third-rate public schools, reality TV and fantasy football. There it is done with internet filters, scary-as-hell cops everywhere, the People's News and meaningless obsession with western fads.

The difference is TV and fantasy football are choices. Perhaps stupid ones, but choices. In China, the government controls what you see.

If we have controls, it is in far more subtle forms... lack of funding for libraries ..oops I see you did mention poor schools. Also, putting journalism to the free market system.

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

tank man is the most moving image ever recorded

real talk

Surprisingly, if you go to China Google (http://www.google.cn), and search Tank Man, the pictures show up on images. I just don't think many people there know about it, hence why it is not blocked.

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN ... 2&aq=f&oq=
When you use google.cn in Canada, you get this...
搜索结果可能涉及不符合相关法律法规和政策的内容，无法显示。
Translation: Search results may not comply with the relevant laws, regulations and policy, can not be displayed.

[PLAYER57832]

Is that the Chinese link, then?

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

Is that the Chinese link, then?

The link leads to Chinese Google, yes.

[Nobunaga]

... Also like the US but to a much greater extent the people are kept ignorant. Here it is done with third-rate public schools, reality TV and fantasy football. There it is done with internet filters, scary-as-hell cops everywhere, the People's News and meaningless obsession with western fads.

The difference is TV and fantasy football are choices. Perhaps stupid ones, but choices. In China, the government controls what you see.

If we have controls, it is in far more subtle forms... lack of funding for libraries ..oops I see you did mention poor schools. Also, putting journalism to the free market system.

... I cannot counter your "These are choices" argument because of course they are. But is it so difficult to believe that those in positions protected by the ignorance of the public might very well believe that it will be only a minority that seeks to know and understand? And might they be right? Like so many animals, following, moving with the herd/flock/pack along the easiest course.

... What does government have to gain from a truly educated and informed public? Compare that to what it stands to lose.

... We both know Americans are ignorant as hell, embarassingly so. I believe that is the plan.

... But back on the China theme... While in China I could not access many of the websites I normally visited while in the US, Japan, Taiwan. Most US news sites were unavailable - I missed Drudge. Your beloved NPR was not available, and that struck me as odd. Streaming radio was impossible.

... In Guangdong (and most certainly many other cities) there are large buildings dedicated soley to the monitoring of internet viewership and the blocking of potentially dangerous sites. In China there is a ridiculously cute cartoon character (as so many east Asians love) in a police uniform who pops up on the screen to ask you if you are certain you want to be searching for whatever it is you might have just run through Google. It's spooky.

...

[Martin Ronne]

china is barbaric.

All of it?

The government.

And, to a point, the people who allow the government to do what they will without objection.

I'm surprised we actually agree on something. Again!

[Balsiefen]

Putting democracy in google images gets some interesting results, I'm surprised the govt can get away with being so obvious.

[oVo]

the people who allow the government to do what they will without objection.

The protests against the methods of the government in China began in April 1989 and took place all over the country, not just Tiananmen Square. Protesters were brutally attacked by troops redeployed from distant provinces at many locations and Tiananmen Square was the final chapter in stamping out the disenting voices. More than thirty people remain in prison to this day for their participation in these demonstrations.

I can still remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when local TV came on with the "breaking news" story that tanks had entered the square. The details of exactly what happened that day remain sketchy and the actual fate of all the people who occupied the square may never be revealed.

When the Tank Man put down his bag of groceries and stepped out in front of that column of oncoming tanks... the entire planet stopped what they were doing and took notice of current events in China.