Lord of the Rings mafia [Town wins]

[Simon Viavant]

Just to let you guys know I'm not trying to lurk, but it'll be a little while before I get the time to read through the 20 pages of the thread and contribute to discussion.

[spiesr]

After a quick look back at yesterday, I feel a possible situation being that pmc was scum and led the charge against MM and that Mr. Squirrel was his scum mate and came to save him by joining the MM bandwagon. I will vote Mr. Squirrel for now to further explore such possibilities...

[pmchugh]

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

unvote vote suspect If there is anyone I do not think is scum in this game it is mr. squirrel. He has played 100% townie IMO and you gave incredibly weak reasons, how about quoting and giving some actual thought behind it. What happened to your big posts? This is out of character for you and I can easily see you being scum.

After a quick look back at yesterday, I feel a possible situation being that pmc was scum and led the charge against MM and that Mr. Squirrel was his scum mate and came to save him by joining the MM bandwagon. I will vote Mr. Squirrel for now to further explore such possibilities...

Looking for bandwagons much?

Anyway I think a review of yesterday is needed and I will be the first to admit that the lynch of mm wasn't the best but it was kind of all I had and if I hadn't went after him I would have probably been lynched.

Forcing a bad lynch to save yourself is kind of scummy tbh. But seeing as it's still early days of D2 and a few other leads needs to be considered I'm not voting just yet.

I knew I was town but wasn't sure about MM, what would you do in my place?

[Mr. Squirrel]

After a quick look back at yesterday, I feel a possible situation being that pmc was scum and led the charge against MM and that Mr. Squirrel was his scum mate and came to save him by joining the MM bandwagon. I will vote Mr. Squirrel for now to further explore such possibilities...

For starters, you forgot to bold your vote against me.

I can see why you may think this. I did come to PMC's defense when he was in danger of being lynched. In truth though, it wasn't PMC I was trying to defend, but MM I was trying to condemn (not knowing that MM was actually townie). MM and PMC were both acting a little scummy to me but when Thez joined MM, I thought Thez was doing the same thing you are condemning me of now. When Iliad joined after my vote, I was even more convinced. The fact that MM turned out to be Gandalf surprised me greatly and if I had been awake to see his claim, I would have backed down immediately without even waiting for a counterclaim. Gandalf was probably a power role and I think the town suffered a major loss by losing him.

[Suspect101]

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

unvote vote suspect If there is anyone I do not think is scum in this game it is mr. squirrel. He has played 100% townie IMO and you gave incredibly weak reasons, how about quoting and giving some actual thought behind it. What happened to your big posts? This is out of character for you and I can easily see you being scum.

After a quick look back at yesterday, I feel a possible situation being that pmc was scum and led the charge against MM and that Mr. Squirrel was his scum mate and came to save him by joining the MM bandwagon. I will vote Mr. Squirrel for now to further explore such possibilities...

Looking for bandwagons much?

Anyway I think a review of yesterday is needed and I will be the first to admit that the lynch of mm wasn't the best but it was kind of all I had and if I hadn't went after him I would have probably been lynched.

Forcing a bad lynch to save yourself is kind of scummy tbh. But seeing as it's still early days of D2 and a few other leads needs to be considered I'm not voting just yet.

I knew I was town but wasn't sure about MM, what would you do in my place?

you have been the scummiest player in this game and your round robin vote hopping is not helping either. I wonder why a scumy person thinks another player has "played 100% town". Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril, way to jump the gun on that one. Interesting how you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders. And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window. Also my "big posts" really got me far haven't they? ever consider that people may change their stratagey to try and find a more efficent means to the ends?

[pmchugh]

you have been the scummiest player in this game and your round robin vote hopping is not helping either. I wonder why a scumy person thinks another player has "played 100% town". Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril, way to jump the gun on that one. Interesting how you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders. And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window. Also my "big posts" really got me far haven't they? ever consider that people may change their stratagey to try and find a more efficent means to the ends?

I disagree big posts and round robin vote hopping is IMO the most efficient technique for finding scum. It's a lot easier not to slip up if you sit in the background, but even as scum it's less intresting. Why are you protecting speisr? And I didn't say he did bandwagon I said he was looking for a bandwagon, he picked out a newbie who was just accused and me who is probably the easiest player to BW atm.

And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window

I changed my mind entirely, my whole instict says you are scum.

I notice you are not voting me yet, but I garuntee you will for the very reason you just accused me:

you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders

You didn't seem to think I was scummy before I accused you, or at least you seemed to think Mr. Squirrel was more suspicious. So go on BS me and tell me your fake reason for vote changing.

[Suspect101]

you have been the scummiest player in this game and your round robin vote hopping is not helping either. I wonder why a scumy person thinks another player has "played 100% town". Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril, way to jump the gun on that one. Interesting how you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders. And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window. Also my "big posts" really got me far haven't they? ever consider that people may change their stratagey to try and find a more efficent means to the ends?

I disagree big posts and round robin vote hopping is IMO the most efficient technique for finding scum. It's a lot easier not to slip up if you sit in the background, but even as scum it's less intresting. Why are you protecting speisr? And I didn't say he did bandwagon I said he was looking for a bandwagon, he picked out a newbie who was just accused and me who is probably the easiest player to BW atm.

And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window

I changed my mind entirely, my whole instict says you are scum.

I notice you are not voting me yet, but I garuntee you will for the very reason you just accused me:

you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders

You didn't seem to think I was scummy before I accused you, or at least you seemed to think Mr. Squirrel was more suspicious. So go on BS me and tell me your fake reason for vote changing.[/quote]

You are the first person to jump on people and call them scum for vote hopping, but when you do it there is a reason? You are changing your norms, so you must be scum (by your deduction of me doing the same thing).

I am posting less content not less in general, your theory is deadwood and should be burned as such.

No, I am not going to vote for you because I want to hear more about Mr.Squrril. So go BS yourself. Should be fun and will probably amuse you for hours.

Oh, by the way, your instincts stink.

[Suspect101]

EBWOP

you have been the scummiest player in this game and your round robin vote hopping is not helping either. I wonder why a scumy person thinks another player has "played 100% town". Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril, way to jump the gun on that one. Interesting how you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders. And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window. Also my "big posts" really got me far haven't they? ever consider that people may change their stratagey to try and find a more efficent means to the ends?

I disagree big posts and round robin vote hopping is IMO the most efficient technique for finding scum. It's a lot easier not to slip up if you sit in the background, but even as scum it's less intresting. Why are you protecting speisr? And I didn't say he did bandwagon I said he was looking for a bandwagon, he picked out a newbie who was just accused and me who is probably the easiest player to BW atm.

And I guess we can just throw that whole hubbub about you thinking I am town out the window

I changed my mind entirely, my whole instict says you are scum.

I notice you are not voting me yet, but I garuntee you will for the very reason you just accused me:

you like to swing the light of suspicion towards people who have accused you or your defenders

You didn't seem to think I was scummy before I accused you, or at least you seemed to think Mr. Squirrel was more suspicious. So go on BS me and tell me your fake reason for vote changing.

You are the first person to jump on people and call them scum for vote hopping, but when you do it there is a reason? You are changing your norms, so you must be scum (by your deduction of me doing the same thing).

I am posting less content not less in general, your theory is deadwood and should be burned as such.

No, I am not going to vote for you because I want to hear more about Mr.Squrril. So go BS yourself. Should be fun and will probably amuse you for hours.

Oh, by the way, your instincts stink.

[spiesr]

[quote="Suspect101]Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,[/quote]Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel


Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

[pmchugh]

You are the first person to jump on people and call them scum for vote hopping, but when you do it there is a reason? You are changing your norms, so you must be scum (by your deduction of me doing the same thing).

I am posting less content not less in general, your theory is deadwood and should be burned as such.

No, I am not going to vote for you because I want to hear more about Mr.Squrril. So go BS yourself. Should be fun and will probably amuse you for hours.

Oh, by the way, your instincts stink.

Where did I accuse anyone of vote hopping?

Hmm intresting reaction, but we shall see about my insticts.

[Mr. Squirrel]

No, I am not going to vote for you because I want to hear more about Mr.Squrril.

What else do you want to know? Your whole case against me is that I was defending PMC. I gave my opinion on this already. I thought MM was scumnier than PMC so I voted against MM. Simple as that. However, since MM turned out to be innocent, I am no longer trying to defend PMC. If you read through all of my posts so far for day 2, you will find that I have not defended PMC once yet even if he is defending me.

Do you have any more specific questions for me, or are you just gonna keep throwing around accusations?

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

Can you give specific examples of how I've been "remaining in the shadows"? I agree that I have urged for the lynch in a couple cases (just as you or anyone else has), but I don't ever remember lurking.

and you still haven't answered this.

[Falkomagno]

I think that we have to look into the MM bandwagon. I Think that the main suspicious would be pmc, because he start the argumentation that lead to the gandalf death,, but it's true that in D1 almost everything can be enough to lynch someone. Plus, if MM would vote for thez....he would be alive right now, so he played wrong.

and the argument against karel is so weak...it's like saying that he is the only scum in game.

[karelpietertje]

Who would have wanted nag dead? I'm gonna have to read back through the thread when i get the chance.

I read back... as far as I can tell, nagerous wasn't really a threat to anybody. he put a random vote on Falkomagno (because "he didn't know him yet" ) and a vote on me.

so I don't think we can get a lot of valuable information out of this kill.. which is obviously exactly what thebad guys would want

so let's look back at the lynch:

Minister Masket - 4 (spiesr, pmchugh, AceArtemis, Mr. Squirrel)
pmchugh - 3 (Minister Masket, Thezzaruz)
Thezzaruz - 3 (Clive, Falkomagno, Iliad)
karelpietertje - 1 (nagerous)

MM, Clive and Iliad i consider goodguys.
Clive couldnt be counterclaimed for being Legolas, Iliad voted away from MM when he could've pretended to just be offline.
so if the bandits bandwagonned, it was on Minister Macket.
therefor, we should try and found out who, out of spiesr, pmchugh, AceArtemis, is/are bandits.
so that was my first thought.

Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,

Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel

Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

when suspect and spiesr brought this up, it totally attached to my first thought, squirrel fits into it!
he could be one of the two bandits who bandwagonned Minister Macket, with either pmchugh or AceArtemis (or spiesr if him bringing this up is a decoy ) or 2 of those!

therefor I would like to put some pressure on Squirrel:
vote Mr Squirrel

[pmchugh]

Who would have wanted nag dead? I'm gonna have to read back through the thread when i get the chance.

I read back... as far as I can tell, nagerous wasn't really a threat to anybody. he put a random vote on Falkomagno (because "he didn't know him yet" ) and a vote on me.

so I don't think we can get a lot of valuable information out of this kill.. which is obviously exactly what thebad guys would want you roll your eyes likes it's obvious but there can be many many reasons to kill players off.

so let's look back at the lynch:

Minister Masket - 4 (spiesr, pmchugh, AceArtemis, Mr. Squirrel)
pmchugh - 3 (Minister Masket, Thezzaruz)
Thezzaruz - 3 (Clive, Falkomagno, Iliad)
karelpietertje - 1 (nagerous)

MM, Clive and Iliad i consider goodguys.
Clive couldnt be counterclaimed for being Legolas, Iliad voted away from MM when he could've pretended to just be offline.
so if the bandits bandwagonned, it was on Minister Macket.
therefor, we should try and found out who, out of spiesr, pmchugh, AceArtemis, is/are bandits.
so that was my first thought.

Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,

Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel

Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

when suspect and spiesr brought this up, it totally attached to my first thought, squirrel fits into it!
he could be one of the two bandits who bandwagonned Minister Macket, with either pmchugh or AceArtemis (or spiesr if him bringing this up is a decoy ) or 2 of those!

therefor I would like to put some pressure on Squirrel:
vote Mr Squirrel

What if me, MM and thez are all town? Then scum could vote for any or none of us without giving anything away. Just because MM was town doesn't mean scum were on his wagon.

[karelpietertje]

What if me, MM and thez are all town? Then scum could vote for any or none of us without giving anything away. Just because MM was town doesn't mean scum were on his wagon.

sorry but I feel like you haven't read my post correctly...
I didn't state MM wasn't town, and i said nothing about thez.
I'm just stating that I suspect that the bandwaggon was by Mr. S, and one of the others who voted MM.

this second person could be you or spiesr or aceartemis.

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

[pmchugh]

What if me, MM and thez are all town? Then scum could vote for any or none of us without giving anything away. Just because MM was town doesn't mean scum were on his wagon.

sorry but I feel like you haven't read my post correctly...
I didn't state MM wasn't town, and i said nothing about thez.
I'm just stating that I suspect that the bandwaggon was by Mr. S, and one of the others who voted MM.

this second person could be you or spiesr or aceartemis.

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

No I did understand you.

You are accusing people based on the fact they lynched a townie (minister masket) but there are many reasons why we may have voted for him and it doesn't neccesarily mean one or two of us is scum. Espicially when scum didn't need to vote for him to get a townie lynched.

[Mr. Squirrel]

What if me, MM and thez are all town? Then scum could vote for any or none of us without giving anything away. Just because MM was town doesn't mean scum were on his wagon.

sorry but I feel like you haven't read my post correctly...
I didn't state MM wasn't town, and i said nothing about thez.
I'm just stating that I suspect that the bandwaggon was by Mr. S, and one of the others who voted MM.

this second person could be you or spiesr or aceartemis.

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

The only reason MM was lynched was because of the deadline. You try to place the blame on me, when it wasn't my fault we lost him. I may have contributed unfortunately, but if we had a few more days to figure out the situation, I don't think I would have stuck with MM. The case was too weak and the only reason I voted for him in the first place is because Thez made him look scummy. If thez had never voted, I wouldn't have either.

If you just want me to roleclaim, say so. I will gladly do it so that we can spend our time looking for actual scum and not running down the dead end that would result from bandwaggoning me.

[spiesr]

I'm just stating that I suspect that the bandwaggon was by Mr. S, and one of the others who voted MM.

We know who bandwagoned MM. Well, we know who voted for him anyway, whether those votes can be considered bandwagon votes or something else is up for debate. The question is are any of those who voted for him scum who voted for him because they wanted to make sure he was lynched as opposed to the other possible lynches like pmc or maybe thezzz.

[pmchugh]

First off don't roleclaim mr. squirrel and secondly speisr I think you are a way better lynch than any of us.

But even better would be suspect I am 99% sure he is scum.

[karelpietertje]

there are many reasons why we may have voted for him and it doesn't neccesarily mean one or two of us is scum. Espicially when scum didn't need to vote for him to get a townie lynched.

you're right. they didn't need to.
I am still insecure as to what sam_levi_11 and william18 are doing saying nothing on this early time of day 2... maybe they are tired from doing things at night???
and suspect didnt vote either... i also am not secure of him... although he seems town.

anyway, i still think we should put pressure on Squirrel.
it might have been useful to not just lynch any townie, but Gandalf, who probably had the doctor skill or some other overpowered skill during night.
and it is not impossible that scum have been told certain stuff about who is who, especially with those frikken birds flying around!

so FoS on the non-voters (except myself... i trust me )
but my vote stays on Mr. Squirrel.

[Iliad]

Wow.

Is it possible for anyone to post without getting accused of being scum by pmc?

As someone who had just led the bandwagon onto , what I presume, an important power role pmc is hardly abashed. He's throwing out accusations just like before.

If anyone even dares to vote someone who you consider town, the shock!, instantly they are demonised. Could we please try and discuss things with slightly more rational heads? Especially since last day proved your scum finding skills weren't really that adequate.

I'm surprised the kill was been mostly ignored. Karel was pressured by nag, and it was quite obvious nag was sure karel was scum. Also karel has been suggesting the birds mean that scum know about something about the town roles. No-one else has been suggesting this. If karel is newbie scum, him revealing that would fit quite in line.

Not only that if karel is scum, and they knew nag was a watcher they would've had to kill nag as they would be sure nag would watch karel. It seems to me that the night kill shows that karel was caught in a corner.

[AceArtemis]

First off, I'm not seeing the case against Squirrel. I don't think Mr. Squirrel is all that scummy at the moment, and has defended himself adaquately.

It seems pmc and suspect are at it again. Is this going to happen every single day?

Yesterday Nag was quite hard and harsh on Karel, calling him newbie scum. This was because we was obviously avoiding the topic. A claim to which he still hasnt answered, seeming to hope this new day will mean we forget. Along with this, if he was newbie scum, being this his first/second game, certainly first as scum, he is likely to kill whoever was getting close to finding him out. It often happens with newbie scum and i think Karel simply panicked and killed him to protect himself. This, coupled with the fact he obviously avoided the topic despite neither forgetting about it or being busy and how he has been on every bandwagon in the shape of a vote or fos means im going to vote karel

You may have a point there. This seems like what a newbie scum would do. Although there is a lot of WIFOM involved, I think we should discuss this.

Who would have wanted nag dead? I'm gonna have to read back through the thread when i get the chance.

I read back... as far as I can tell, nagerous wasn't really a threat to anybody. he put a random vote on Falkomagno (because "he didn't know him yet" ) and a vote on me.

From the quotes sam posted, the vote on KP wasn't just a vote. It seemed like nagerous had a strong opinion that you were being scummy. KP tried to make his vote sound trivial. Vote: KP because I want to see him respond to sam's accusations.

[Stroop]

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Vote count

Mr. Squirrel - 3 (Suspect101, spiesr, karelpietertje)
karelpietertje - 2 (sam_levi_11, AceArtemis)
Suspect101 - 1 (pmchugh)

Not voting: Simon Viavant, william18, Mr. Squirrel, Thezzaruz, Iliad, Clive, Falkomagno

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

[karelpietertje]

I understand your way of thinking, people.
let me try to comfort youguys.

the only reason nagerous voted on me was because I put a FoS on pmchugh (who is, like Day 1, still acting suspicious by calling everybody who disagrees scum).

nagerous thought I was scum, but his vote was the only vote on me.
if i were scum, that would in no way feel like any pressure. the only thing that would make me suspicious, would be nagerous getting killed. I would not be as obviously stupid to kill him then would I?!
this may be my first game of mafia, but I know the principle of action-reaction.

anybody would have wanted to kill nagerous; he is an experienced Mafia player, and killing him might force a lynch on the one nagerous was voting on: karelpietertje.

don't give the bandits this double-kill because we will be outnumbered on Day 3 then.

[pmchugh]

Wow.

Is it possible for anyone to post without getting accused of being scum by pmc?

As someone who had just led the bandwagon onto , what I presume, an important power role pmc is hardly abashed. He's throwing out accusations just like before.

If anyone even dares to vote someone who you consider town, the shock!, instantly they are demonised. Could we please try and discuss things with slightly more rational heads? Especially since last day proved your scum finding skills weren't really that adequate.

I'm surprised the kill was been mostly ignored. Karel was pressured by nag, and it was quite obvious nag was sure karel was scum. Also karel has been suggesting the birds mean that scum know about something about the town roles. No-one else has been suggesting this. If karel is newbie scum, him revealing that would fit quite in line.

Not only that if karel is scum, and they knew nag was a watcher they would've had to kill nag as they would be sure nag would watch karel. It seems to me that the night kill shows that karel was caught in a corner.

Maybe I go a bit OTT but one wrong deadline lynch doesn't mean i am not adequate. However I think I may calm down a little in games as I probaby am too forward.

Anyway I am surprised that you are speculating over a scum kill, because it's purely WIFOM. Scum are bound to have at least one experienced player.