Lord of the Rings mafia [Town wins]

[Thezzaruz]

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

I believe he is scum.

And I believe you are as wrong in that belief as you where in your belief that MM was scum.

I believe that pmc is not mafia, but I am not sure if he is town. He seems to be playing third party, which is why my vote is not on him.

Very possible. Though what are the likely 3rd party roles? I would have guessed gollum and treebeard (with the possibility of one more) but as treebeard seems to belong to the same faction as gandalf I'm not sure what characters there are left for 3rd party roles. (but then again you already posted something to explain that )

[pmchugh]

.

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

I believe he is scum.

And I believe you are as wrong in that belief as you where in your belief that MM was scum.

I was never really totally sure that MM was scum, and I went a bit OTT with suspect mainly to see how he reacted to the pressure. I am not entirely happy with suspect's answers and still do think him a possible mafia member but I am willing to listen to other opinions as it seems I am alone in my thoughts. Too many people have gone quiet and I would like here from them.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Too many people have gone quiet and I would like here from them.

Very true. It seems like you, suspect and spiesr are taking up this entire thread.
Here are some people we haven't heard from in at least two pages:
william18
karelpietertje
Simon Viavant
AceArtemis
sam_levi_11
Iliad
Clive

And of those william18 and Clive have yet to post at all on day 2.

[spiesr]

Though what are the likely 3rd party roles? I would have guessed gollum and treebeard (with the possibility of one more) but as treebeard seems to belong to the same faction as gandalf I'm not sure what characters there are left for 3rd party roles. (but then again you already posted something to explain that )

Could there be both Gollum and Smeagol? Also, we talked about this a bit on day 1 and if you look back you will see some discussion and names thrown aorund include Forimier and elf people.

@ Mod:
Mass Prod Please...

[Stroop]

@ Mod:
Mass Prod Please...

Coming soon

[Iliad]

In pmc's defense, people have busy lives. Just because if you bother to do the math you think the deadline will come sometime around 7 am doesn't mean one will necessarily be able to be online shortly before that to see if they need to make an emergency change to their vote.

June 6
2:58 am: Stroop incorrectly mentions that day will end in about 26 hours.
June 7
3:03 am: Stroop says that there are 4 hours left. (MM has 4 votes, pmc has 4, Thezz has 2.)
6:19 am: MM posts Gandalf's picture.
6:49 am: Clive posts urging other players to switch their votes to Thezz in an attempt to save MM.
6:52 am: Iliad changes his vote from pmc to Thezz
7:03 am: MM lynched

This brings up an interesting point. If Clive Iliad really wanted to save MM from being lynched shouldn't they have placed their votes on the person with the next highest number of votes, in this case pmc? If Clive had switched his vote from Thezzz to pmc and Iliad had left his vote there then pmc would have had 5 votes and been lynched over MM's 4 votes. Wouldn't lynching an unknown be possibly better than lynching Gandalf? This is more suspicious as it seems acted like it would be better as they tried to lynch the unknown of Thezzz to save MM.
Since Clive is Legolas though, I am don't think I can really question his townness, but I do wonder about his reasoning in that situation. It would be nice to hear from him...

That's because clive was banking on MM being online, since had just claimed. MM already had his vote on pmc, if however MM had checked the thread he could've unvoted and voted. Pretty sure that's what clive was banking on.

Mostly I think him panicking, thoughI would like to hear from him. Also whether he has any info from night?

[Stroop]

Prodded:

sam_levi_11
william18
AceArtemis
Clive
Simon Viavant

They have 48 hours to post. Karelpietertje is close to getting a prod.

[AceArtemis]

Okay, pmc in your opinion is Suspect merely wrong about you (and other things) or is he totally scum?

I believe he is scum.

And I believe you are as wrong in that belief as you where in your belief that MM was scum.

I agree with this. I don't like the arguments between Suspect and pmc, and I don't think either of them is scum right now.

I will read through and have more to post tonight.

[Stroop]

Prodded karelpietertje. He has 48 hours to post.

[william18]

Srry for being inactive. I got a bunch of malware( like spyware protect 2009) so I had to take care of them.. personally.

[william18]

Though what are the likely 3rd party roles? I would have guessed gollum and treebeard (with the possibility of one more) but as treebeard seems to belong to the same faction as gandalf I'm not sure what characters there are left for 3rd party roles. (but then again you already posted something to explain that )

Could there be both Gollum and Smeagol? Also, we talked about this a bit on day 1 and if you look back you will see some discussion and names thrown aorund include Forimier and elf people.

@ Mod:
Mass Prod Please...

Thats impossible, Gollum and Smeagol are the same person.

[william18]

Personally I believe neither pmchugh nor suspect are scum. They seem to me like two townies(maybe one's 3rd party) that are jumping on eachothers trivial mistakes. I will with hold my vote and investigate some more.

[Clive]

I've been a bit busy lately, but i'm here and reading.

And no, no information, that's not what my role does.

Iliad is right regarding my push of Thezz. I thought MM would be online. He let his side down somewhat by not changing his vote.

Vote Thezz

As nothing has alleviated my suspicions of him, and if he flipped scum, the ones who voted him yesterday will be basically confirmed town (Me, Iliad, Falko).

I don't have any suspicion of Squirrel or Suspect at this time.

[spiesr]

As nothing has alleviated my suspicions of him, and if he flipped scum, the ones who voted him yesterday will be basically confirmed town (Me, Iliad, Falko).

How will thezzz being scum confirm Iliad and falko as town just because they voted for him?

[spiesr]

I will be gone Sunday and most of Monday and unable to post during that time. Sorry for the inconvenience...

[AceArtemis]

First off, Unvote. I believe KP adaquately defended himself.

Iliad is right regarding my push of Thezz. I thought MM would be online. He let his side down somewhat by not changing his vote.

Vote Thezz

As nothing has alleviated my suspicions of him, and if he flipped scum, the ones who voted him yesterday will be basically confirmed town (Me, Iliad, Falko).

What was the case against Thezz again? I looked back and found Falkomango's reasons for voting Thezz at the end of Day 1.

I would like to look i another direction.

Clive - 7 (william18, AceArtemis, Suspect101, Thezzaruz, Mr. Squirrel, Iliad, karelpietertje)

I would insist in lynch one of the obove.

unvote vote Thezz

Why thez? because is linked with iliad in that so weak case between MM and PMC.

So, Thezz was on the Clive bandwagon, and has sided with MM in the argument between MM and pmc. However, now that we know MM was town, we know that Thezz sided with a townie. Since I do not see pmc as being scummy at this point, I think we should look elsewhere for clues, unless you can convince me of your case against Thezzaruz.

[Stroop]

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Vote count

Mr. Squirrel - 3 (Suspect101, spiesr, karelpietertje)
karelpietertje - 1 (sam_levi_11)
Suspect101 - 1 (pmchugh)
Thezzaruz - 1 (Clive)

Not voting: Simon Viavant, william18, Mr. Squirrel, Thezzaruz, Iliad, Falkomagno, AceArtemis

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 2 will end approximately 200 hours from now
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

[pmchugh]

Yeah the thez lynch makes no sense at all. But of course clive is cleared, no wonder we nearly lynched him lol.

I disagree with the Mr. Squirrel voters. Three people on a poor bandwagon, he acted like classic newbie town day 1 IMO.

speisr isn't here but of course that can't be helped. I would like to know if he still thought Mr. S is scum, but that will have to wait.

The other two:

vote mr.squirrel

He has been urging on each bandwagon while remaining in the shadows. I have a bad feeling about mr.squirrel and would like to see some pressure on him.

I have already put my reasons as to why I think this is scummy but suspect you have had time to gauge his reaction, how do you feel now?

Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,

Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel

Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

when suspect and spiesr brought this up, it totally attached to my first thought, squirrel fits into it!
he could be one of the two bandits who bandwagonned Minister Macket, with either pmchugh or AceArtemis (or spiesr if him bringing this up is a decoy ) or 2 of those!

therefor I would like to put some pressure on Squirrel:
vote Mr Squirrel

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

This stinks of bandwaggoning, you are trying to force other people to vote for Mr. Squirrel. Your reasoning isn't great either, just because people voted for a townie doesn't make them scum. Apart from the fact Mr. S was on this wagon what else do you have agianst him?

[karelpietertje]

Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,

Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel

Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

when suspect and spiesr brought this up, it totally attached to my first thought, squirrel fits into it!
he could be one of the two bandits who bandwagonned Minister Macket, with either pmchugh or AceArtemis (or spiesr if him bringing this up is a decoy ) or 2 of those!

therefor I would like to put some pressure on Squirrel:
vote Mr Squirrel

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

This stinks of bandwaggoning, you are trying to force other people to vote for Mr. Squirrel. Your reasoning isn't great either, just because people voted for a townie doesn't make them scum. Apart from the fact Mr. S was on this wagon what else do you have agianst him?

I explained my reasoning for wanting to put pressure on Mr Squirrel perfectly clear.
you however have made no good point whatsoever that he is town.
so the question is not what I have against him (because I have nothing against him that I didn't already say), but what why you want to protect him so badly?!

[sam_levi_11]

Guys, now karel is even telling you all to vote for someone. How scummy does someone need to be before he is seen as suspicious by some people... I stand by my vote and theory on him from a few pages back.

[william18]

Also, spiesr never voted mr.squrril,

Actually, i meant to vote for him and I will fix it now. Vote Mr. Squirrel

Suspect does bring an interesting point that we may want to look into somewhat of pmc retaliating against those who attack him or his defenders. Whether this is reasonable self defense or something a little more is unclear and open for discussion...

when suspect and spiesr brought this up, it totally attached to my first thought, squirrel fits into it!
he could be one of the two bandits who bandwagonned Minister Macket, with either pmchugh or AceArtemis (or spiesr if him bringing this up is a decoy ) or 2 of those!

therefor I would like to put some pressure on Squirrel:
vote Mr Squirrel

I want to pressurize Squirrel first. I think he either went with AceArtemis or you (pmchugh). out of those two, I must admit I don't think you are scummy... but that's not the issue I'm trying to get going here yet.

first, let's see who Mr. Squirrel is.
so follow this example everybody:

vote Mr Squirrel

This stinks of bandwaggoning, you are trying to force other people to vote for Mr. Squirrel. Your reasoning isn't great either, just because people voted for a townie doesn't make them scum. Apart from the fact Mr. S was on this wagon what else do you have agianst him?

I explained my reasoning for wanting to put pressure on Mr Squirrel perfectly clear.
you however have made no good point whatsoever that he is town.
so the question is not what I have against him (because I have nothing against him that I didn't already say), but what why you want to protect him so badly?!

Perhaps because there is barely any case against squirrel. I might have misunderstood, but as I make of it you practically said "The question is not why are we lynch, but why not". There are many reasons why not!

I prefer that we go on the basis innocent until proven guilty. This absurd attack on squirrel is ridiculous, and karl is defending his actions with extremly faulty logic.

Vote karl

[karelpietertje]

william and sam_levi,
let me say point out that if the lynch on Minister Macket was set up by bandits who knew that he was Gandalf, which is possible, then it is most likely that Mr. Squirrel was one of the ones who did it.
if however the lynch on MM was just a messup by the town, which is very likely, then the other possibility is that the mafia just waited and let that happen (which would make you two pretty suspicious).



so the way i see it there are two possibilities:
1)the mafia targetted gandalf and succeeded to lynch him.
2)the mafia sat back and did nothing
my suggestion:
1)we try and put pressure on Mr. Squirrel. i still haven't heard a good story from him.
2)when he has a satisfying story we focus on the people who didn't vote.
this way we should have both possibilities covered.

which case do you think happened sam_levi and william?

[pmchugh]

william and sam_levi,
let me say point out that if the lynch on Minister Macket was set up by bandits who knew that he was Gandalf, which is possible, then it is most likely that Mr. Squirrel was one of the ones who did it.
if however the lynch on MM was just a messup by the town, which is very likely, then the other possibility is that the mafia just waited and let that happen (which would make you two pretty suspicious).



so the way i see it there are two possibilities:
1)the mafia targetted gandalf and succeeded to lynch him.
2)the mafia sat back and did nothing
my suggestion:
1)we try and put pressure on Mr. Squirrel. i still haven't heard a good story from him.
2)when he has a satisfying story we focus on the people who didn't vote.
this way we should have both possibilities covered.

which case do you think happened sam_levi and william?

If scum knew he was Gandalf why not wait till night and kill him then? It would be 100 times simpler than trying to get him lynched. unvote vote karl

If you can give me some reasons other than; Mr Squirrel voted for MM therefore he must be scum then I will gladly unvote.

[Thezzaruz]

Vote Thezz

Well that was random...

What have I done to deserve that apart from trying to save MM???

Thats impossible, Gollum and Smeagol are the same person.

My thoughts too. Even though they are quite separate personalities they are still the same person so I can't see them being separate roles here.

[Suspect101]

let me get this straight....

people are voting for Karl because he is trying to persuade people to vote for someone he thinks is scummy?

I find that pretty scummy.